Re: This is why nobody can be compared to prime Jones..
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Originally Posted by Taeth
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
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Originally Posted by Snakey
Joe is over rated and ive been saying it since his win over lacy. He doesnt compare to roy at super middleweight. Roy at super middleweight was unbeatable.
nobody is unbeatable im sick of hearing hes unbeatable blah blah hes very good fighter but not unbeatable by any means
Roy unless got hit with a lucky punch lets say from NIgel Benn that he didn't see and hit him as hard as Benn could he was unbeatable.
well how did montel griffin do so well then in there first meeting if he was unbeatable ?? but i have to agree jones is fantastic fighter and someone mentioned jones fought mike mccallum mccallum was 40s or something like that and was well finished but the way jones done hill with that body shot was impressive
Re: This is why nobody can be compared to prime Jones..
What alot of people (mainly americans) don't seem to understand about calzaghe is towards the later part of his career he fought often to the level of the person he was fighting 'coz his hands were so F***ed!
Let me explain; b4 eubank all 22 fights he won by TKO, after eubank fight (which eubank didn't leave the bed for 4 days) he had another TKO. In these fights he was brilliant, he had it all, his punching was alot cleaner, there was never any rust coz he trained and sparred exactly like he shud prio to the fights as there wasn't any worry about busting his hands. The the reid fight came...
As most know it went the full 12 rounds, calzaghe bust his hand in the 6-8th, was winning fair easy up untill the hand brake then shit got hard. Don't confuse the reid of the to the reid lacy stopped. He was very focused, wasn't brilliant but had good skills, a cast iron chin, very strong, very fit.
that was the fight that really messed things up for joe, HBO hated the fight, that was the fight calzaghe had to impress in for them to built him up for a RJJ fight, but the hand went. after that he had another TKO i think, followed by again a fight HBO were looking at, that he broke his hand in. He went on to blow mario vient out in the first round, followed by more hand woes.
Pretty much joes, done very little sparring the last 3-4 yrs, he sparrs he brakes his hand, he doesnt sparr, he looks bad in the ring. Saldy, for you lot really, that you wudn't of seen him at his best, even in the lacy fight, i seen him fight better (yes hard to believe u may think) but a few yrs ago lacy wudnt of lasted the 12 rounds ill bet my house on that.
People like Taeth compare the handfull of calzaghes 42 fights he seen to the entire carrer of RJJ, or hopkins, where as their great proformances have overshadowed their bad ones - but iv seen calzaghe at his best and at his worset, and there is no doubt in my mind Calzaghe wud of been a match for any middle or smw EVER - im not saying calzaghe wud of beaten them all, but he could of.. as they cud of beaten him.
Its funny how so many seem to take it as a personal insult when calzaghe is mentiond along with hopkins or RJJ; alot of you should really try watch the calzaghe carrer, im sure some will still think RJJ would win, and hopkins would win - but i think alot of you will be slightly relieved they never got in the ring with him, sure dissapointed coz they wuda been great fights.
Im trying to call it as i honestly believe it (hard im welsh and calzaghe is sum1 i loved and followed sinc ei can remeber)
But Calzaghe V Jones Jr, honstly id call that about 50/50
Calzaghe v hopkins? id give it in favour of calzaghe any day of the week prime for prime.
Re: This is why nobody can be compared to prime Jones..
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Originally Posted by Preme
What alot of people (mainly americans) don't seem to understand about calzaghe is towards the later part of his career he fought often to the level of the person he was fighting 'coz his hands were so F***ed!
Let me explain; b4 eubank all 22 fights he won by TKO, after eubank fight (which eubank didn't leave the bed for 4 days) he had another TKO. In these fights he was brilliant, he had it all, his punching was alot cleaner, there was never any rust coz he trained and sparred exactly like he shud prio to the fights as there wasn't any worry about busting his hands. The the reid fight came...
As most know it went the full 12 rounds, calzaghe bust his hand in the 6-8th, was winning fair easy up untill the hand brake then S*** got hard. Don't confuse the reid of the to the reid lacy stopped. He was very focused, wasn't brilliant but had good skills, a cast iron chin, very strong, very fit.
that was the fight that really messed things up for joe, HBO hated the fight, that was the fight calzaghe had to impress in for them to built him up for a RJJ fight, but the hand went. after that he had another TKO i think, followed by again a fight HBO were looking at, that he broke his hand in. He went on to blow mario vient out in the first round, followed by more hand woes.
Pretty much joes, done very little sparring the last 3-4 yrs, he sparrs he brakes his hand, he doesnt sparr, he looks bad in the ring. Saldy, for you lot really, that you wudn't of seen him at his best, even in the lacy fight, i seen him fight better (yes hard to believe u may think) but a few yrs ago lacy wudnt of lasted the 12 rounds ill bet my house on that.
People like Taeth compare the handfull of calzaghes 42 fights he seen to the entire carrer of RJJ, or hopkins, where as their great proformances have overshadowed their bad ones - but iv seen calzaghe at his best and at his worset, and there is no doubt in my mind Calzaghe wud of been a match for any middle or smw EVER - im not saying calzaghe wud of beaten them all, but he could of.. as they cud of beaten him.
Its funny how so many seem to take it as a personal insult when calzaghe is mentiond along with hopkins or RJJ; alot of you should really try watch the calzaghe carrer, im sure some will still think RJJ would win, and hopkins would win - but i think alot of you will be slightly relieved they never got in the ring with him, sure dissapointed coz they wuda been great fights.
Im trying to call it as i honestly believe it (hard im welsh and calzaghe is sum1 i loved and followed sinc ei can remeber)
But Calzaghe V Jones Jr, honstly id call that about 50/50
Calzaghe v hopkins? id give it in favour of calzaghe any day of the week prime for prime.
Beautiful!! :coolclick:
Re: This is why nobody can be compared to prime Jones..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Preme
What alot of people (mainly americans) don't seem to understand about calzaghe is towards the later part of his career he fought often to the level of the person he was fighting 'coz his hands were so F***ed!
Let me explain; b4 eubank all 22 fights he won by TKO, after eubank fight (which eubank didn't leave the bed for 4 days) he had another TKO. In these fights he was brilliant, he had it all, his punching was alot cleaner, there was never any rust coz he trained and sparred exactly like he shud prio to the fights as there wasn't any worry about busting his hands. The the reid fight came...
As most know it went the full 12 rounds, calzaghe bust his hand in the 6-8th, was winning fair easy up untill the hand brake then shit got hard. Don't confuse the reid of the to the reid lacy stopped. He was very focused, wasn't brilliant but had good skills, a cast iron chin, very strong, very fit.
that was the fight that really messed things up for joe, HBO hated the fight, that was the fight calzaghe had to impress in for them to built him up for a RJJ fight, but the hand went. after that he had another TKO i think, followed by again a fight HBO were looking at, that he broke his hand in. He went on to blow mario vient out in the first round, followed by more hand woes.
Pretty much joes, done very little sparring the last 3-4 yrs, he sparrs he brakes his hand, he doesnt sparr, he looks bad in the ring. Saldy, for you lot really, that you wudn't of seen him at his best, even in the lacy fight, i seen him fight better (yes hard to believe u may think) but a few yrs ago lacy wudnt of lasted the 12 rounds ill bet my house on that.
People like Taeth compare the handfull of calzaghes 42 fights he seen to the entire carrer of RJJ, or hopkins, where as their great proformances have overshadowed their bad ones - but iv seen calzaghe at his best and at his worset, and there is no doubt in my mind Calzaghe wud of been a match for any middle or smw EVER - im not saying calzaghe wud of beaten them all, but he could of.. as they cud of beaten him.
Its funny how so many seem to take it as a personal insult when calzaghe is mentiond along with hopkins or RJJ; alot of you should really try watch the calzaghe carrer, im sure some will still think RJJ would win, and hopkins would win - but i think alot of you will be slightly relieved they never got in the ring with him, sure dissapointed coz they wuda been great fights.
Im trying to call it as i honestly believe it (hard im welsh and calzaghe is sum1 i loved and followed sinc ei can remeber)
But Calzaghe V Jones Jr, honstly id call that about 50/50
Calzaghe v hopkins? id give it in favour of calzaghe any day of the week prime for prime.
I did some boxrec searching and check this out
Roy Jones changed his entire style of punching because of his fragile hands and he went into the Bernard Hopkins fight with a broken right hand, into the Telasco fight with a fractured wrist and into the third Tarver fight witha broken right hand.
Roy started his career out with multiple knockouts at about the same level of competition as Calzaghe.
The difference is that Roy fought Hopkins(a future hall of famer just about to reach his prime) for his first title fight at his first title fight. And Calzaghe fought a past his best Chris Eubank. Roy went into the Hopkins fight with a broken hand and won. Calzaghe broke his during the fight.
Roy never called off a fight due to injury, whether he did it in sparring or whatever, he went into the fight with the injury and won impressively.
And Roy was talented enough that he even played basketball the morning of the fight(in a competitive league) against future champion Eric Lucas and won impressively in that fight.
Doing basketball the morning would sap you more then not sparring would because at least you'd have your legs.
And still then, Roy wouldn't look bad, and Lucas is better opposition imo then Robin Reid. I only seen highlights of him fighting a matrix guy and Lacy so thats all I have to go by :dontknow:
Roy beat James Toney in his prime and looked very impressive at a time when he was just peaking and fyi it was Roy Jones' FIRST fight at 168 that he beat the p4p number 1 James Toney.
But when Roy beat Toney Calzaghe had just turned pro. And by the time Roy knocked out Griffin in the rematch Calzaghe then beat Eubank.
By the time 99 came around when you mentioned Calzaghe fighting Reid, Roy was unifying the title at Light Heavyweight against a very rugged and very GOOD Reggie Johnson who I place above everyone on Calzaghe's resume in terms of skill(and Calzaghe beat a past his best Eubank, if he had beaten Eubank in his prime then I would place Eubank above Reggie Johnson, but he didnt so Reggie Johnson is just above a past his best Eubank imo)
here's the breakdown of the competition faced after the Roy Jones Reggie Johnson fight
And the Calzaghe vs. Reid fight
Roy Jones fought
David Telesco
Richard Hall
Eric Harding(undefeated and had just beaten Tarver going the entire 12th round without Tarver landing a punch on him)(Tarver was 0 for 15 in the 12th round)
Derrick Harmon
Julio Gonzalez(future world champion)
Glen Kelly
Clinton Woods(current world champion)
That was before his move up, to be fair lets look at Joes next 7 opponents
Rick Thornberry
David Starie
Omar Sheika
Richie Woodhall(natural middleweight)
Will McIntyre
Charles Brewer(past his best)
Miguel Angel Jimenez(no clue who he is but I know he beat a 3-15-2 fighter to get a shot at joe)
Roy had already unified the titles and had defended them.
But I don't see Markus Beyer anywhere on Calzaghe's resume and he was the champion at the time, but Calzaghe fought his leftovers(Woodhall) instead. Why didn't he fight Beyer and try to unify?
Matter of fact why didn't Calzaghe fight Eric Lucas(Roy Jones victim that he played basketball before stopping) when he became WBC Super Middleweight champ?
Now granted I did see that he was trying to get a fight with Sven Ottke. Can anyone explain why that fight fell through?
Anyway Calzaghe could have fought this opposition at the LEAST could have fought Beyer or Lucas but he didnt.
He spoke of even going up to Light Heavyweight to fight Roy Jones eventually and was going to fight Glen Johnson in his move up. But Calzaghe broke his hand and withdrew, but once it healed he fought the likes of Mger Mkrtchian, Kabary Salem and a rematch with Mario Veit. What happened to the Glen Johnson fight ???
Well thats just the facts I looked up. Just felt you should know.
Re: This is why nobody can be compared to prime Jones..
Jones was great in his prime but I have said it a million times, boxing is styles put roy in with tommy hearns and he has nightmares tall fighters with a great reach good jab and straight right hand nullifys Jones...
Re: This is why nobody can be compared to prime Jones..
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Originally Posted by miles
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Originally Posted by Snakey
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Originally Posted by wacko3205
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Originally Posted by Snakey
Joe is over rated and ive been saying it since his win over lacy. He doesnt compare to roy at super middleweight. Roy at super middleweight was unbeatable.
So Joe has a tuff fight & now he's overratted?
Bullshit. I just don't buy it...& I aint even seen the fight. Thing is...Joe's beaten a shitload of fighters on his side of the lake that are worthy adversary's & he's remained undefeated in 41 fights.
Nothing overratted about that. A couple of hard fights out of 40 or 41 does not make one overratted.
Personally...Jones weren't no god at 168. Other than a green Hopkins, Paz, & Toney...Roy was doing his fair share of bum beating.
Mate you know very well this isnt his first tough fight against low opposition. And by the way, ok roy didnt fight heaps of great fighters at super middleweight but who the hell has calzaghe fought. The man doesnt even want kessler and took him like 10 yrs to unify.
If Calzaghe doesnt fight Kessler I will be dissapointed. Taylor and Winky are not fights that are gonna happen anytime soon. Jones Jr and Hopkins are pretty much semi retired, and okay, they will be able to sell a huge fight, but their best days are over...
Fighting Kessler in March is the best option....
If his management does't know that.... Its sad. His management through his career wasn't nessiserily to take the high road... But the road less traveled. He... At his peak neads to bite the bullet. He is a great but someone needs to tell him , he is an all time great in the making. As an american, I know no oneknows him... He can fight @ M.E.N. if he wants to... But make it a NAME fight... Please Joe!!!!!!! I'm a fan. Let me remember you as an all time great!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Re: This is why nobody can be compared to prime Jones..
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Originally Posted by Snakey
Joe is over rated and ive been saying it since his win over lacy. He doesnt compare to roy at super middleweight. Roy at super middleweight was unbeatable.
Your, DAMN RIGHT!!!!!!!!! CC. Jones was untouchable. And no, he had no stinkers, he won every single round of most of his fights, occasionally losing a round or two with the exception of maybe the first Griffin fight.
Re: This is why nobody can be compared to prime Jones..
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Originally Posted by Hulk
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Originally Posted by Snakey
Joe is over rated and ive been saying it since his win over lacy. He doesnt compare to roy at super middleweight. Roy at super middleweight was unbeatable.
Your, DAMN RIGHT!!!!!!!!! CC. Jones was untouchable. And no, he had no stinkers, he won every single round of most of his fights, occasionally losing a round or two with the exception of maybe the first Griffin fight.
LOOK, I love Jones but he fought Paz... A home town boy!!! One of my Favs!!! But was he on Jone's level... Stop it. I know... He fought all the Marcianos and Alis of the time.....hahahahahah....no really..................................stop
Re: This is why nobody can be compared to prime Jones..
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Originally Posted by Hulk
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Originally Posted by Snakey
Joe is over rated and ive been saying it since his win over lacy. He doesnt compare to roy at super middleweight. Roy at super middleweight was unbeatable.
Your, DAMN RIGHT!!!!!!!!! CC. Jones was untouchable. And no, he had no stinkers, he won every single round of most of his fights, occasionally losing a round or two with the exception of maybe the first Griffin fight.
You were right about Jones never losing a round at 168. The first Griffin fight was at Light heavyweight.
Re: This is why nobody can be compared to prime Jones..
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Originally Posted by Violent Demise
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Originally Posted by Hulk
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Originally Posted by Snakey
Joe is over rated and ive been saying it since his win over lacy. He doesnt compare to roy at super middleweight. Roy at super middleweight was unbeatable.
Your, DAMN RIGHT!!!!!!!!! CC. Jones was untouchable. And no, he had no stinkers, he won every single round of most of his fights, occasionally losing a round or two with the exception of maybe the first Griffin fight.
You were right about Jones never losing a round at 168. The first Griffin fight was at Light heavyweight.
Didnt know that, VD thank... :D
Re: This is why nobody can be compared to prime Jones..
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Originally Posted by "PRIDE OF BOSTON"
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Originally Posted by Violent Demise
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Originally Posted by Hulk
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Originally Posted by Snakey
Joe is over rated and ive been saying it since his win over lacy. He doesnt compare to roy at super middleweight. Roy at super middleweight was unbeatable.
Your, DAMN RIGHT!!!!!!!!! CC. Jones was untouchable. And no, he had no stinkers, he won every single round of most of his fights, occasionally losing a round or two with the exception of maybe the first Griffin fight.
You were right about Jones never losing a round at 168. The first Griffin fight was at Light heavyweight.
Didnt know that, VD thank... :D
Yeah, you wouldn't.
Re: This is why nobody can be compared to prime Jones..
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Originally Posted by Violent Demise
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Originally Posted by "PRIDE OF BOSTON"
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Originally Posted by Violent Demise
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Originally Posted by Hulk
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Originally Posted by Snakey
Joe is over rated and ive been saying it since his win over lacy. He doesnt compare to roy at super middleweight. Roy at super middleweight was unbeatable.
Your, DAMN RIGHT!!!!!!!!! CC. Jones was untouchable. And no, he had no stinkers, he won every single round of most of his fights, occasionally losing a round or two with the exception of maybe the first Griffin fight.
You were right about Jones never losing a round at 168. The first Griffin fight was at Light heavyweight.
Didnt know that, VD thank... :D
Yeah, you wouldn't.
OK
Re: This is why nobody can be compared to prime Jones..
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Originally Posted by "PRIDE OF BOSTON"
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Originally Posted by Hulk
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Originally Posted by Snakey
Joe is over rated and ive been saying it since his win over lacy. He doesnt compare to roy at super middleweight. Roy at super middleweight was unbeatable.
Your, DAMN RIGHT!!!!!!!!! CC. Jones was untouchable. And no, he had no stinkers, he won every single round of most of his fights, occasionally losing a round or two with the exception of maybe the first Griffin fight.
LOOK, I love Jones but he fought Paz... A home town boy!!! One of my Favs!!! But was he on Jone's level... Stop it. I know... He fought all the Marcianos and Alis of the time.....hahahahahah....no really..................................stop
I don't get it? Are you saying Jones ducked a lot of guys or Paz fought everybody or what? ???
Re: This is why nobody can be compared to prime Jones..
Majesty...
The Hopkins that RJ fought wasn't half the fightrer he became.
He was just a prospect... Nothing more.
And although Cal beat Eubank, Eubank was a dominant champ and i belive he could of beat Hopkins that very day.
And in regards to the Toney - RJJ fight.... We all know the weight/ Conditioning problems Toney had going into the fight ::**
What im trying to say is, its not so simple drawing comparisons between careers. ;)
Re: This is why nobody can be compared to prime Jones..
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Originally Posted by JimBoogie
Majesty...
The Hopkins that RJ fought wasn't half the fightrer he became.
He was just a prospect... Nothing more.
And although Cal beat Eubank, Eubank was a dominant champ and i belive he could of beat Hopkins that very day.
And in regards to the Toney - RJJ fight.... We all know the weight/ Conditioning problems Toney had going into the fight ::**
What im trying to say is, its not so simple drawing comparisons between careers. ;)
Come on! Fuk the weight problems, I like Toney but that was his fault, and he wasn't beating Roy Jones at that time period. What if Lacy said he had great problems making weight would you just automatically dismiss Calzaghes dominant win over him? NO, I didn' think so. The weight drained shat is an EXCUSE. Roy dominated Toney who was a better fighter than Calzaghe, or Eubank.
