Re: vitali klitschko vs prime foreman + prime holy who wins ??
Quote:
Originally Posted by plinden
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by plinden
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1st rd ko
The early Foreman threw puches WAY to wide. I think VK could have thrown some straight down the pipe on him. Plus, at this time, George would have been giving up 25 lbs or so. Im not saying VK beats him 10 out of 10 times but no way George beats VK 10 out of 10 times. Just my thoughts. Anyone have a time machine? These would be great fights to see! :o
Vitali wins both.
1) Holy cant reach. The jab will outpoint him.
2) Forman has no good defence when in his prime. He never faced anyone bigger with fast straight punches and good movement. Both men standing and Vitali outpoints Foreman. Vitali has never been down and given he knows Foremans' a power puncher he wills tay on the outside.
3) Ali only met smaller guys (except for Foreman). VK would knock him out. Because Vitali would not be too scared of Ali's punching power, and he would take the nice combos by ali whilse consistently pump the jab and hitting with the occasional monster right. If Ali had probs w Chuvalo and Henry Cooper, surely Vitali would be too much even for the greatest.
right now this is stupid comment vitali beat ali please because he gave lewis trouble ?? lewis still won ali didnt fight just smaller guys he met few tall ones aswell ali fought everyone and is a legend same with foreman both of them would beat crap out of vitali and to be honest i didnt think much of vitalis defence either vs lewis kept his hands low and if he done that against foreman vitali would be on his backside
a) Only one person weighed as much as Vitali and that was Buster Mathis. It took Ali 12 rounds to win a deciscion. Dont tell me you think Vitaly would need 12 rounds against mathis. EVERYONE else he met were between 20-50 pounds lighter than Vitaly. And he still needed many rounds. Vitaly KO's ali.
b) Vitaly keeps jabbing and throwing straights and backs up when Foreman comes forward. Points victory Vitaly.
Got to go with plinden on this one.
Re: vitali klitschko vs prime foreman + prime holy who wins ??
plinden have look what i said on page 2
Re: vitali klitschko vs prime foreman + prime holy who wins ??
I don't know if Vitali wins vs Prime Foreman ...he has a better shot vs Prime Holyfield
Yes Vitali was a lot bigger, yes his defense wasn't GREAT but he was awkward and hard to hit clean even if his defense sucked.
I don't want to go into size too terribly much because I still think Rocky Marciano beats Mike Tyson but if you look at the size difference between those two and the size different between Vitali and Foreman, Ali, Frazier, etc it's a lot greater.
That being said, if you asked Vitali this question he would probably say he would lose both fights
Re: vitali klitschko vs prime foreman + prime holy who wins ??
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
I don't know if Vitali wins vs Prime Foreman ...he has a better shot vs Prime Holyfield
Yes Vitali was a lot bigger, yes his defense wasn't GREAT but he was awkward and hard to hit clean even if his defense sucked.
I don't want to go into size too terribly much because I still think Rocky Marciano beats Mike Tyson but if you look at the size difference between those two and the size different between Vitali and Foreman, Ali, Frazier, etc it's a lot greater.
That being said, if you asked Vitali this question he would probably say he would lose both fights
I tend to agree with you Lyle, but Marciano beats Tyson??? No way bro.
Re: vitali klitschko vs prime foreman + prime holy who wins ??
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1st rd ko
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
I don't know if Vitali wins vs Prime Foreman ...he has a better shot vs Prime Holyfield
Yes Vitali was a lot bigger, yes his defense wasn't GREAT but he was awkward and hard to hit clean even if his defense sucked.
I don't want to go into size too terribly much because I still think Rocky Marciano beats Mike Tyson but if you look at the size difference between those two and the size different between Vitali and Foreman, Ali, Frazier, etc it's a lot greater.
That being said, if you asked Vitali this question he would probably say he would lose both fights
I tend to agree with you Lyle, but Marciano beats Tyson??? No way bro.
Marciano definitely beats tyson. Marciano threw the hardest punches to date for a heavyweight. Tyson was knocked almost senseless by Buster Douglas and Marciano was never floored for longer than a 5 count. When he got up from the very few times he was knocked down, he showed no dizziness and appeard to be completely there. Marciano wins with more power, a better chin, and not being intimidated by tyson's power.
Re: vitali klitschko vs prime foreman + prime holy who wins ??
Well ONE of the reasons Marciano beats Tyson is that Tyson beats 0 all-time great heavyweights.
Not ANY of these
Ali
Marciano
Louis
Liston
Dempsey
Johnson
Foreman
Frazier
Lewis
Bowe
Holyfield
Walcott
Charles
Holmes
But that is another discussion for another day
Re: vitali klitschko vs prime foreman + prime holy who wins ??
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
Well ONE of the reasons Marciano beats Tyson is that Tyson beats 0 all-time great heavyweights.
Not ANY of these
Ali
Marciano
Louis
Liston
Dempsey
Johnson
Foreman
Frazier
Lewis
Bowe
Holyfield
Walcott
Charles
Holmes
But that is another discussion for another day
I think a prime tyson takes out Holyfield and Lewis.
Re: vitali klitschko vs prime foreman + prime holy who wins ??
Ok, Marciano beats VK? I say no way in hell.
Re: vitali klitschko vs prime foreman + prime holy who wins ??
Quote:
Originally Posted by Punisher136
I think a prime tyson takes out Holyfield and Lewis.
NAAAAAH buddy
Marciano beats Vitali.....Vitali is too respectful to say otherwise
Re: vitali klitschko vs prime foreman + prime holy who wins ??
6'8 vs 5'11 yeah sounds pretty lob sided but i still say marciano could've beaten any fighter from anytime period in the heavyweight division (hell any division for that matter). Marciano throws some bombs and tires out vitali's arms just like he did everyone elses leaving vitali open to a few good shots that floor him. Max Baer/Primo Carnera style except vitali's chin is better and he's taller.
Re: vitali klitschko vs prime foreman + prime holy who wins ??
Quote:
Originally Posted by Punisher136
6'8 vs 5'11 yeah sounds pretty lob sided but i still say marciano could've beaten any fighter from anytime period in the heavyweight division (hell any division for that matter). Marciano throws some bombs and tires out vitali's arms just like he did everyone elses leaving vitali open to a few good shots that floor him. Max Baer/Primo Carnera style except vitali's chin is better and he's taller.
Got to disagree, VK kills Marciano.
Re: vitali klitschko vs prime foreman + prime holy who wins ??
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
OK first off if Vitali got "stopped by Johnson" it was by the ref and I think Kirk was happy about it judging by how bad he got whupped on.
Vitali was a very good fighter whom obviously had to fight to get big fights...who would want to fight a 6'8 250 pound guy who was very athletic, had a GREAT chin and KO'd all but 1 of the guys he beat....one of the best KO ratios ever...I don't care who you say he fought it was just as good as who Tyson fought before he really stepped it up and Vitali did a better job of knocking them out.
I'm not saying Vitali is THE GREATEST or a GREAT (because he didn't stay at the top long enough) but he was a VERY GOOD heavyweight and his style, size, and power matches up good against ANYONE in the history of the sport!
If I'm in a fight, I want Vitali in my corner
I think we can say more. Henry Cooper was 183 pounds. He knocked down Ali in the 3rd, and the fight was stopped on a cut, poor henry. Vitaly klitschko weighs 250+, 6.8. and has a good defence in his stepping back shoulder up, ready to counter. I just dont think Cooper giving away 70 pounds, would be a match for VK, but he was for ALi. Just an examlpe of the fact that Ali had to work against almost always smaller opponents. If not VK w KO ali then a points win because of the straight jabs.
Re: vitali klitschko vs prime foreman + prime holy who wins ??
Quote:
Originally Posted by plinden
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
OK first off if Vitali got "stopped by Johnson" it was by the ref and I think Kirk was happy about it judging by how bad he got whupped on.
Vitali was a very good fighter whom obviously had to fight to get big fights...who would want to fight a 6'8 250 pound guy who was very athletic, had a GREAT chin and KO'd all but 1 of the guys he beat....one of the best KO ratios ever...I don't care who you say he fought it was just as good as who Tyson fought before he really stepped it up and Vitali did a better job of knocking them out.
I'm not saying Vitali is THE GREATEST or a GREAT (because he didn't stay at the top long enough) but he was a VERY GOOD heavyweight and his style, size, and power matches up good against ANYONE in the history of the sport!
If I'm in a fight, I want Vitali in my corner
I think we can say more. Henry Cooper was 183 pounds. He knocked down Ali in the 3rd, and the fight was stopped on a cut, poor henry. Vitaly klitschko weighs 250+, 6.8. and has a good defence in his stepping back shoulder up, ready to counter. I just dont think Cooper giving away 70 pounds, would be a match for VK, but he was for ALi. Just an examlpe of the fact that Ali had to work against almost always smaller opponents. If not VK w KO ali then a points win because of the straight jabs.
Cooper knocked Ali down in the 3rd!? Ali wasn't floored until his first fight with frazier ???
Re: vitali klitschko vs prime foreman + prime holy who wins ??
Quote:
Originally Posted by plinden
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
OK first off if Vitali got "stopped by Johnson" it was by the ref and I think Kirk was happy about it judging by how bad he got whupped on.
Vitali was a very good fighter whom obviously had to fight to get big fights...who would want to fight a 6'8 250 pound guy who was very athletic, had a GREAT chin and KO'd all but 1 of the guys he beat....one of the best KO ratios ever...I don't care who you say he fought it was just as good as who Tyson fought before he really stepped it up and Vitali did a better job of knocking them out.
I'm not saying Vitali is THE GREATEST or a GREAT (because he didn't stay at the top long enough) but he was a VERY GOOD heavyweight and his style, size, and power matches up good against ANYONE in the history of the sport!
If I'm in a fight, I want Vitali in my corner
I think we can say more. Henry Cooper was 183 pounds. He knocked down Ali in the 3rd, and the fight was stopped on a cut, poor henry. Vitaly klitschko weighs 250+, 6.8. and has a good defence in his stepping back shoulder up, ready to counter. I just dont think Cooper giving away 70 pounds, would be a match for VK, but he was for ALi. Just an examlpe of the fact that Ali had to work against almost always smaller opponents. If not VK w KO ali then a points win because of the straight jabs.
Seems plinden and I are on the same page. VK kills Rocky. Not even close. Vs Ali? OK, I wont be a di#$ head but I still see 6'8" 250 lbs VK winning.
Re: vitali klitschko vs prime foreman + prime holy who wins ??
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1st rd ko
Ok, Marciano beats VK? I say no way in hell.
By the way: Alis reach was a great asset for him, not only his size. Against VK he does not have the weapon. Of course Ali was the smartest fighter ever, so perhaps he would invent something new, but with the advantages he normally had; reach, size taken away... i wonder. He still has the speed, but VK is not slow. VK has never been down and I dont think Ali has the power. Who knows. I would put my money on VK. Because of the fact that 183 pound guys can knock him down, despite ali being 20 pounds bigger or more... VK having 30 -70 pounds on any of Alis regular opponents.... no VK wins. However I can see that ali being so smart its not obvious. What I mean is ALis game is to fight on ouside and tie up -but thats what VK can do since he is the guy w reach so it would be a new experience for ali -not easy to deal with.
However Holyfield wont get close enough, and Foreman is to open in his defence.
