Re: Official Debate Thread (EVERYBODY LOGGED IN NOW, CHECK IT OUT)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
I say you call it a no-contest. They both sucked equally.
....well good mornin' sunshine ;D
Re: Official Debate Thread (EVERYBODY LOGGED IN NOW, CHECK IT OUT)
I give the first one to Pride and im still undecided on the second one, i have Lyle winning on points rite nowwww, but can stebs turn it round or TKO Lyle to take this one?!
Re: Official Debate Thread (EVERYBODY LOGGED IN NOW, CHECK IT OUT)
I gotta vote for Stebs
Lyles points have no validity.
The facts are .
. Evander passed his medical and beat 2 fighters in the last several months one of which was ranked in the top 12.
Example look at Lyle’s #8 “Listen to Evander Talk?” ?? fact is Evander has been talking like that all his life. that’s not some new issue. Nice try my friend ! But this case should be thrown out of Court ;D
Re: Official Debate Thread (EVERYBODY LOGGED IN NOW, CHECK IT OUT)
Re: Official Debate Thread (EVERYBODY LOGGED IN NOW, CHECK IT OUT)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
Alrighty :juggle:
#1 It IS a comeback because an inability to get a LICENSE caused the "Holy Warrior" to have a hiatus
Larry Donald 11-13-2004.......long break......Jeremy Bates 8-18-2006....roughly 2 years, I believe it qualifies as a break and so this right meow would be called a COMEBACK....because he's COMING .....BACK.....to boxing
#2 Fitness guru Jack Lalane is like 93 and he's in better shape than most of us on the forum.....doesn't mean he'll win any titles anytime soon
#3 As a FAN of the sport of boxing, I not only care to watch great fights but I care to see great fighters live to influence fighters of another generation
#4 Journeymen getting licensed is one thing....they don't make enough money to JUST box...usually they have another job so when people say "don't quit your day job" they are talking to those guys
#5 Yes there are people better than me at what I do......but I am not getting brain damage from trying...awwww shux fella I wish I could
#6 My opinion is backed up by numerous boxing fans
#7 Fres Oquendo is ALSO on the comeback trail....and he got TKO'd by John Ruiz. But yeah I had him beating Byrd too.
#8 Listen to Evander talk....he's like 5 punches past retarded....and that was after the Bowe trilogy. And even if you STOP boxing your brain will not heal from those blows to the head.
Let me ask you stebs, would you rather Evander be like he is now or would you rather him be like Gerald McClellan???
I don't know if this is allowed since I never read the rules of the debate forum but i think a couple of Lyles points need to be addressed.
#1, Lyle the medical suspension had nothing to do with his health, It had more to do with Holyfield not living up to the lofty goals he set for himself and his passed performances that we all remember. He did finish the fight with no adverse health issues.
#2 doesn't even merit an answer
#3 might merit an answer. Holyfield has and still influences fighters with his great heart and determination, of both the new generation and old generation of fighters.
#4 Giving these guys a license to take a beating should not have been typed by you, see your last statement about McClellan
#5 There is always someone better on any given night in any profession, and since we don't know your profession we don't know if you could substain brain damage. But you have to remember that all fighters face this reality.
#6 Again it's just your opinion. he has been licensed by the medical field to fight, so is a boxing fans opinion more qualified then the the doctors who cleared him to fight.
#7 We both agree Fres beat Byrd, and we both know Fres lost two of his last four fights, one to Ruiz and one to Holyfield. We also know Ruiz is unappreciated because of his style ( fans opinion again ) but he keeps winning fights. That doesn't mean any of them shouldn't be allowed in their chosen profession.
#8 You mention brain damage after the Bowe trilogy but you fail to mention that he won the title from Tyson in classic Holyfield style a year later and then defended it four times after that before losing it to Lennox and then regaining a portion of it after that.
Your last statement should not have been asked. I'm a fan just like you and would not want to see what happened to McClellan on anyone, whether it's a journeymen getting licensed to take a beating or a ring legend like Holyfield, you should ask yourself that question about the journeymen.
I responded Lyle so now it's back to you.
Re: Official Debate Thread (EVERYBODY LOGGED IN NOW, CHECK IT OUT)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
I say you call it a no-contest. They both sucked equally.
VD you pull no punches, it must be that muthafuckin gang mentality you mention in your profile, I like your honesty and your thoughts on what some misguided people think of the so called greatest of greats Calzaghe. This might earn me some sad points from the Calzaghe fans but who the f*ck cares.
Re: Official Debate Thread (EVERYBODY LOGGED IN NOW, CHECK IT OUT)
Holyfield's fighting at 44 is different than Foreman's fighting at 44. George didn't have as many wars as Evander, George took time off in the 80's, and he was a different fighter when he came back, he blocked better, he used the jab more. But even then if you look at Evander Holyfield in his fights from the first Lennox Lewis fight on to now there has been a STEADY decline in his skills.
My point #2 is that physical shape is one thing but it's not the end all be all of boxing....there are guys out there who are in incredible shape but their brains are mush from being hit too much
All fighters face the brain damage part of the sport it can happen in 1 fight for one guy and in the 200th fight for another. The thing is the style that Evander uses, coupled with the previous fights he has had make him more likely to be hurt in future fights.
Ruiz beat Evander and even when Evander was in as prime of a condition as he always is in regards to weight and he got the crap beat out of him once, fought even another time, and barely scraped by another time....all the while taking LOTS of punches. Holyfield in his prime would have really battered Ruiz....but in the fights he was outworked and that's not Evander's style, he was always in great shape throwing more punches, landing good combinations, and then smothering the counters.
In regards to the journeymen, they have to pass the same licensing as Holyfield ....do you want Evander to become a journeyman? It sounds like people want him to keep fighting until he's dead which if he steps up his competition just might happen sooner rather than later.
Stebs, you make a good arguement
Re: Official Debate Thread (EVERYBODY LOGGED IN NOW, CHECK IT OUT)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
In regards to the journeymen, they have to pass the same licensing as Holyfield ....do you want Evander to become a journeyman? It sounds like people want him to keep fighting until he's dead which if he steps up his competition just might happen sooner rather than later.
Stebs, you make a good arguement
Hell no I don't want him to become a jouneyman, I can tell your a fan of Holyfield also and don't want to see him get hurt. I became a fan of Holyfield when he beat Ricky Womack ( Kronk fighter in my hometown ) in back to back fights way way back in the Olympic boxoff's to earn his way on the olympic team. But with the current crop I think he could win a piece of the pie. But to unify the titles, no way, he has the heart, determination and conditioning to continue on though, at his age his reflexes are not what they used to be and thats his downfall as most already know. I don't think we'll ever see a unified champ again, just to many sanctioning bodies and promoters to satisfy. When you look at the champs out there ( Oleg Maskaev, Nicolay Valuev, Wladimir Klitschko, Shannon Briggs ) you have to give him a chance agains't at least one or two of these fighters. I just hope he stays away from both the Klitschko's if Vitali comes back and wins a title.
Re: Official Debate Thread (EVERYBODY LOGGED IN NOW, CHECK IT OUT)
Voting has been closed for the PRIDE OF BOSTON and stavros693000.
The winner of the first debate is.
Pride of Boston
winning a close 3 to 2 decision.
Lyle vs. stebs debate still in progress
Re: Official Debate Thread (EVERYBODY LOGGED IN NOW, CHECK IT OUT)
Quote:
Originally Posted by stebs
Hell no I don't want him to become a jouneyman, I can tell your a fan of Holyfield also and don't want to see him get hurt. I became a fan of Holyfield when he beat Ricky Womack ( Kronk fighter in my hometown ) in back to back fights way way back in the Olympic boxoff's to earn his way on the olympic team. But with the current crop I think he could win a piece of the pie. But to unify the titles, no way, he has the heart, determination and conditioning to continue on though, at his age his reflexes are not what they used to be and thats his downfall as most already know. I don't think we'll ever see a unified champ again, just to many sanctioning bodies and promoters to satisfy. When you look at the champs out there ( Oleg Maskaev, Nicolay Valuev, Wladimir Klitschko, Shannon Briggs ) you have to give him a chance agains't at least one or two of these fighters. I just hope he stays away from both the Klitschko's if Vitali comes back and wins a title.
I'm not Holyfield's biggest fan but I respect what he has accomplished and as a fan of boxing I don't wish to see Great fighters or ANY fighters for that matter end up hurt or disabled.
I just don't want Don King to milk all the cash out of Holyfield and leave him on the street as a shell of a man. And I have been yelling it from the top of my lungs the moment Holyfield came back
HOLYFIELD WILL BE USED TO LEGITIMIZE NICOLAY VALUEV'S RECORD
That plain fact is undeniable....Valuev has fought nothing but bums as of late and he needs a tested heavyweight to establish himself as better than the rest.
Have you wondered why Holyfield fought Fres Oquendo? Fres can't punch! Fres ain't big! And when he's not motivated he's worse than pretty much anyone out there.
I have my doubts about Nicolay's power, in fact I KNOW he doesn't have that much because it took him 11 rounds to get a ring rusted Monte Barrett out! However, the fact he is 7'0 tall 325 pounds and has used rabbit punching to KO opponents worries me.
Don King wants money and he wants his fighters to be recognized as the best even if they really haven't proven it...and this guy is going to give Evander Holyfield fights??? That is a MAJOR worry
Re: Official Debate Thread (EVERYBODY LOGGED IN NOW, CHECK IT OUT)
Quote:
Originally Posted by stebs
Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
I say you call it a no-contest. They both sucked equally.
VD you pull no punches, it must be that muthafuckin gang mentality you mention in your profile, I like your honesty and your thoughts on what some misguided people think of the so called greatest of greats Calzaghe. This might earn me some sad points from the Calzaghe fans but who the f*ck cares.
no one thinks he is the greatest i think skill wise he is great but if we are talking p4p he has a way to go i am calzaghe fan and i wont sc i dont need to i can explain myself to u without petty scing like loads of people do to me for speaking my mind
