cotto p4p

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Danny_G

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CityOfGod

Let's be real here.

Who is Quintana? he was fighting 8 rounders last year.

Then beat a 'prospect' to become catapulted into this fight.

When cotto fights a P4P top 10 fighter like Mayweather, Hatton or Castillo - then he'll get mad props....... but til then, let's not go over the top.

---

I have seen Cotto on a few p4p lists in the past and from time to time his name comes and goes. There are those who are more deserving and or if not right up there in contention for a spot.

Quintana dominated Joel Julio and knocked out Edwin Cassiani. Who is Edwin Cassiani? He was the man that TKO'ed Luis Collazo.
Quintana hits hard as phuk and I think he broke Miguels nose :(
I don't think we have seen the last of Quintana. I could be wrong. He is 30 and was destroyed last night so, who knows.

Now getting back to wether or not Cotto has a spot in the 10?
Well?
We have to look at who is all there.

We have

Arce
Barrera
Calzaghe
Corrales
Casamayor
Castillo
Cotto
De La Hoya
Hatton
Hopkins
Kessler
Margarito
Juan Manuel Marquez
Rafael Marquez
Morales
Mosley
Mayweather
Ouma
Parra
Pacquiao
Taylor
Israel Vazquez
Wright

Play with that list and see how Cotto fairs.

---

Agreed Quintana has the Goods.. I think he will be fine if Cotto beat him up for 9-10 rounds then I would say he is screwed going forward, but he should be fine...

as Far as Rings PFP list is it reasonable to say Cotto Breaks in at least #10 and Knocks off Either Calzaghe,Hopkins, Jose Luis Castillo or Ricky Hatton at least for the Moment???
Why is Hopkins still up there??? How huch time expires before he loses places and eventually gets dropped off the list??

week Last
Week Weeks
in
Ratings Fighter Weight Class
1 1 413 FLOYD MAYWEATHER Welterweight
2 2 156 MANNY PACQUIAO Jr. Lightweight
3 3 138 WINKY WRIGHT Middleweight
4 4 24 JERMAIN TAYLOR Middleweight
5 5 25 BERNARD HOPKINS Lt. Heavyweight
6 6 356 MARCO ANTONIO BARRERA Jr. Lightweight
7 7 47 RAFAEL MARQUEZ Bantamweight
8 8 79 RICKY HATTON Jr. Welterweight
9 9 60 JOSE LUIS CASTILLO Jr. Welterweight
10 10 39 JOE CALZAGHE Super Middleweight

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JT Rock

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Danny_G

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CityOfGod

Let's be real here.

Who is Quintana? he was fighting 8 rounders last year.

Then beat a 'prospect' to become catapulted into this fight.

When cotto fights a P4P top 10 fighter like Mayweather, Hatton or Castillo - then he'll get mad props....... but til then, let's not go over the top.

---

I have seen Cotto on a few p4p lists in the past and from time to time his name comes and goes. There are those who are more deserving and or if not right up there in contention for a spot.

Quintana dominated Joel Julio and knocked out Edwin Cassiani. Who is Edwin Cassiani? He was the man that TKO'ed Luis Collazo.
Quintana hits hard as phuk and I think he broke Miguels nose :(
I don't think we have seen the last of Quintana. I could be wrong. He is 30 and was destroyed last night so, who knows.

Now getting back to wether or not Cotto has a spot in the 10?
Well?
We have to look at who is all there.

We have

Arce
Barrera
Calzaghe
Corrales
Casamayor
Castillo
Cotto
De La Hoya
Hatton
Hopkins
Kessler
Margarito
Juan Manuel Marquez
Rafael Marquez
Morales
Mosley
Mayweather
Ouma
Parra
Pacquiao
Taylor
Israel Vazquez
Wright

Play with that list and see how Cotto fairs.

---

Agreed Quintana has the Goods.. I think he will be fine if Cotto beat him up for 9-10 rounds then I would say he is screwed going forward, but he should be fine...

as Far as Rings PFP list is it reasonable to say Cotto Breaks in at least #10 and Knocks off Either Calzaghe,Hopkins, Jose Luis Castillo or Ricky Hatton at least for the Moment???
Why is Hopkins still up there??? How huch time expires before he loses places and eventually gets dropped off the list??

week Last
Week Weeks
in
Ratings Fighter Weight Class
1 1 413 FLOYD MAYWEATHER Welterweight
2 2 156 MANNY PACQUIAO Jr. Lightweight
3 3 138 WINKY WRIGHT Middleweight
4 4 24 JERMAIN TAYLOR Middleweight
5 5 25 BERNARD HOPKINS Lt. Heavyweight
6 6 356 MARCO ANTONIO BARRERA Jr. Lightweight
7 7 47 RAFAEL MARQUEZ Bantamweight
8 8 79 RICKY HATTON Jr. Welterweight
9 9 60 JOSE LUIS CASTILLO Jr. Welterweight
10 10 39 JOE CALZAGHE Super Middleweight

---

I think Ring's policy is to not remove someone who hasn't definitively retired (and shown no signs of coming back) until they've been inactive for at least 12 months. Given that Hopkins has now officially "unretired," he won't be moving off the list any time soon (unless he loses).

Personally, I think Calzaghe and Hatton should have been switched to begin with (actually, I don't think Hatton belongs, but if he does, it's at the 10 spot), and I think Cotto really should be on there ahead of Hatton (though not ahead of any of those others). I don't think the Ring will do it though--I think one of the people on the list will have to lose before they get knocked off to make room for Cotto.

Looking at 10 spaces and 16 weight classes (under heavyweight, which I don't include in p4p ratings) really of those 16 weight classes only a few are really up for debate

Light Heavyweight-Bantamweight

This gives us 10 spaces for 11 weight classes and with the debate as to who is THE MAN a little blurry in some divisions it makes the process a little harder but here's my take considering those things

1. Manny Pacquiao - he's tough he takes on great fighters and he beats them
2. Floyd Mayweather Jr. - the most talented by far but has only recently applied himself to finding worthy opponents
3. Joe Calzaghe - he's a long reigning champion and unquestionably THE MAN in his division
4. Jermain Taylor - he's young, undefeated, and always challenges himself with good opponents (Ouma aside/ he really wanted the Wright rematch to prove himself)
5. Winky Wright - he's nearly unbeatable, great at 154, just shy of being middleweight champion which dropped him on my list
6. Bernard Hopkins - old man, slips a lot due to the losses to Taylor but is on the list due to his fight at 175 which showed he can move weight classes and beat their top guy
7. Ricky Hatton - he's undefeated, he runs 140, he is looking to improve on his last fight
8. Jorge Arce - tough mofo, he's the only guy who falls outside my range of where I look but damn he's a good fighter.
9. Miguel Cotto - he just cracked my list with that win. he moved up, he fought a tough fighter and TKO'd him.
10. Israel Vasquez - he's a good fighter, fought some tough fighters took some chances and he's the man, he beat Jhonny Gonzales a very good fighter.

MAB didn't make my list because like ODH and Mosley I don't think he has fought enough and done well enough to be there....p4p is for PRIME fighters. Hopkins is on there because he showed even though he lost to Taylor that he could bounce back with BIG wins vs worthy opponents who mean something in their respective divisions

as per Diego Corrales and Jose Luis Castillo they weighed too much for their last fights and really disgraced themselves which knocked them totally off my list. They can come back if they can prove themseleves at 140 or 147

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lyle

as per Diego Corrales and Jose Luis Castillo they weighed too much for their last fights and really disgraced themselves which knocked them totally off my list. They can come back if they can prove themseleves at 140 or 147

---

That has nothing to do with their boxing abilities.

And Calzaghe as #3? I mean, I think I'd include him as maybe #9 or 10, but.... It's also inconsistent with the reason you give for not including Barrera and Mosely--both of whom have beaten better competition in the last 2 years than Calzaghe has beaten in his career. I agree that Calzaghe is the man of his division--but that division is SO weak. It's a shame, because he doesn't have anyone against whom he can prove himself (beating the half-ass brawler Jeff Lacy definitely doesn't mean much), and you can tell he's good by watching him. But if you're going to be all "what have you done for me lately" on your ratings, I don't see how he can even crack the top 10. Arce too--I mean, he's almost as fun as Pac to watch, but who has he EVER beaten? He needs to fight Darchinyan or move up and get KTFO by R Marquez.

I'd say:

1. PBF (technically, he's just on another level; you can complain about his competition, but name someone from 130 to 154 who could actually beat him; Wright is the only possibility)
2. Wright (may be falling off a bit on the D, but it's still 2nd only to Floyd's, and has yet to legitimately lose; extremely technically sound)
3. Pac (#1 in terms of entertainment, but he's got some obvious flaws, which Floyd and Winky don't)
4. Taylor (2 (controversial) wins over B-Hop when B-Hop was #1 p4p followed by a draw with #2 Winky--even if the decisions were off, the fights were VERY close)
5. Hopkins (moving straight from MW to the LHW championship--nuff said)
6. R. Marquez (needs better fights, but is definitely the man at the lower weights--he'll KTFO Vasquez if that fight happens, for real)
7. Barrera (but agreed he's past his prime--won't likely make this list next year)
8. Castillo (and he ain't going nowhere but up when he beats Hatton)
9. Calzaghe (beat Taylor, Hopkins or Wright and you crack the top 5)
10. Mosely (looked back to form in the last fight, granted it was against a punching bag--but he'd dominate 147 if he moved back down like he keeps saying he will)

JMM and Casamayor are 11 and 12. Cotto 13. Hatton 14. But Cotto's stock is rising, for sure.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lyle

Looking at 10 spaces and 16 weight classes (under heavyweight, which I don't include in p4p ratings) really of those 16 weight classes only a few are really up for debate

Light Heavyweight-Bantamweight

This gives us 10 spaces for 11 weight classes and with the debate as to who is THE MAN a little blurry in some divisions it makes the process a little harder but here's my take considering those things

1. Manny Pacquiao - he's tough he takes on great fighters and he beats them
2. Floyd Mayweather Jr. - the most talented by far but has only recently applied himself to finding worthy opponents
3. Joe Calzaghe - he's a long reigning champion and unquestionably THE MAN in his division
4. Jermain Taylor - he's young, undefeated, and always challenges himself with good opponents (Ouma aside/ he really wanted the Wright rematch to prove himself)
5. Winky Wright - he's nearly unbeatable, great at 154, just shy of being middleweight champion which dropped him on my list
6. Bernard Hopkins - old man, slips a lot due to the losses to Taylor but is on the list due to his fight at 175 which showed he can move weight classes and beat their top guy
7. Ricky Hatton - he's undefeated, he runs 140, he is looking to improve on his last fight
8. Jorge Arce - tough mofo, he's the only guy who falls outside my range of where I look but damn he's a good fighter.
9. Miguel Cotto - he just cracked my list with that win. he moved up, he fought a tough fighter and TKO'd him.
10. Israel Vasquez - he's a good fighter, fought some tough fighters took some chances and he's the man, he beat Jhonny Gonzales a very good fighter.

MAB didn't make my list because like ODH and Mosley I don't think he has fought enough and done well enough to be there....p4p is for PRIME fighters. Hopkins is on there because he showed even though he lost to Taylor that he could bounce back with BIG wins vs worthy opponents who mean something in their respective divisions

---

you mean Joe C at #10 right? the rest of your list looks pretty damn solid ! .. lets pull Vasquez to #9 Joe C #10 and Jermaine Taylor #3 and the rest look good. O0 good work Lyle !

shza it has nothing to do with their boxing abilities but it has everything to do with my list and I kicked them off of it.

They disgraced the sport, they disgraced themselves and this moved them off the list

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lyle

shza it has nothing to do with their boxing abilities but it has everything to do with my list and I kicked them off of it.

They disgraced the sport, they disgraced themselves and this moved them off the list

---

So this is more a list of "fighters Lyle respects" than a p4p list then, right?

no it's my p4p if it was fighters I respect we wouldn't even talk about those bastards.


Fighters I respect wouldn't be p4p guys....guys like Zahir Raheem would make the list

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lyle

Looking at 10 spaces and 16 weight classes (under heavyweight, which I don't include in p4p ratings) really of those 16 weight classes only a few are really up for debate

Light Heavyweight-Bantamweight

This gives us 10 spaces for 11 weight classes and with the debate as to who is THE MAN a little blurry in some divisions it makes the process a little harder but here's my take considering those things

1. Manny Pacquiao - he's tough he takes on great fighters and he beats them
2. Floyd Mayweather Jr. - the most talented by far but has only recently applied himself to finding worthy opponents
3. Joe Calzaghe - he's a long reigning champion and unquestionably THE MAN in his division
4. Jermain Taylor - he's young, undefeated, and always challenges himself with good opponents (Ouma aside/ he really wanted the Wright rematch to prove himself)
5. Winky Wright - he's nearly unbeatable, great at 154, just shy of being middleweight champion which dropped him on my list
6. Bernard Hopkins - old man, slips a lot due to the losses to Taylor but is on the list due to his fight at 175 which showed he can move weight classes and beat their top guy
7. Ricky Hatton - he's undefeated, he runs 140, he is looking to improve on his last fight
8. Jorge Arce - tough mofo, he's the only guy who falls outside my range of where I look but damn he's a good fighter.
9. Miguel Cotto - he just cracked my list with that win. he moved up, he fought a tough fighter and TKO'd him.
10. Israel Vasquez - he's a good fighter, fought some tough fighters took some chances and he's the man, he beat Jhonny Gonzales a very good fighter.

MAB didn't make my list because like ODH and Mosley I don't think he has fought enough and done well enough to be there....p4p is for PRIME fighters. Hopkins is on there because he showed even though he lost to Taylor that he could bounce back with BIG wins vs worthy opponents who mean something in their respective divisions

---

I agree not including MAB in the p4p list.He needs to prove he's a real warrior. After his very long silence after his defeat from PAcquaio, he needs to fight PAcman again... or he will be seen as a coward...I'm beginning to believe that he really is....

Id put Cotto in my top 25, not top 10.

The guy is very vulnerable, hes a beast but he is flawed. His weak chin will be exposed by someone who comes at him and dont say Torres, hes not nearly as good as you think either.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rrbong

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lyle

Looking at 10 spaces and 16 weight classes (under heavyweight, which I don't include in p4p ratings) really of those 16 weight classes only a few are really up for debate

Light Heavyweight-Bantamweight

This gives us 10 spaces for 11 weight classes and with the debate as to who is THE MAN a little blurry in some divisions it makes the process a little harder but here's my take considering those things

1. Manny Pacquiao - he's tough he takes on great fighters and he beats them
2. Floyd Mayweather Jr. - the most talented by far but has only recently applied himself to finding worthy opponents
3. Joe Calzaghe - he's a long reigning champion and unquestionably THE MAN in his division
4. Jermain Taylor - he's young, undefeated, and always challenges himself with good opponents (Ouma aside/ he really wanted the Wright rematch to prove himself)
5. Winky Wright - he's nearly unbeatable, great at 154, just shy of being middleweight champion which dropped him on my list
6. Bernard Hopkins - old man, slips a lot due to the losses to Taylor but is on the list due to his fight at 175 which showed he can move weight classes and beat their top guy
7. Ricky Hatton - he's undefeated, he runs 140, he is looking to improve on his last fight
8. Jorge Arce - tough mofo, he's the only guy who falls outside my range of where I look but damn he's a good fighter.
9. Miguel Cotto - he just cracked my list with that win. he moved up, he fought a tough fighter and TKO'd him.
10. Israel Vasquez - he's a good fighter, fought some tough fighters took some chances and he's the man, he beat Jhonny Gonzales a very good fighter.

MAB didn't make my list because like ODH and Mosley I don't think he has fought enough and done well enough to be there....p4p is for PRIME fighters. Hopkins is on there because he showed even though he lost to Taylor that he could bounce back with BIG wins vs worthy opponents who mean something in their respective divisions

---

I agree not including MAB in the p4p list.He needs to prove he's a real warrior. After his very long silence after his defeat from PAcquaio, he needs to fight PAcman again... or he will be seen as a coward...I'm beginning to believe that he really is....

---

If you don't want to include MAB because he's past his prime that's one thing. But to claim he's not a true warrior or that he's a coward is just stupid. He's been in the game for a long time now, has been in some of the best all-out wars in the sport during that time, and has fought a lot of huge fights against dangerous opponents. So I'm sorry if that's not proof enough to you, sitting at your computer screen, but I don't think he's really worried about what you're beginning to believe.

He will be worried because I belong to the noisy minority. MAB as a coward will be my resounding battlecry. :lickish:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rrbong

He will be worried because I belong to the noisy minority. MAB as a coward will be my resounding battlecry. :lickish:

---

"MAB as a coward!" - not very catchy. Good luck with that.

He's p4p on hype...but not on achievement.