The Greatest Middleweight Ever?

I have these in a certain moment in time ( not the best ever which doesn't exist but the best middle in the best middleweight fights ever), call me insane but I am definitely a fanatic of the Division:
1 - Ray Robinson (vs Carmen Basilio)
2 - Jake LaMotta (vs Marcel Cerdan)
3 - Joey Giardello (vs Gene Fullmer)/Tony Zale (vs Rocky Graziano)
4 - Ray Leonard or Marvin Hagler ( against each other)
5 - James Toney or Mike McCallum ( against each other)

I like to rank Robinson at welterweight, so I'd be left with Monzon or Hagler.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by legend30

who would it be... im saying hagler

---

Nope ....Harry Greb.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by southakron314

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by legend30

who would it be... im saying hagler

---

Nope ....Harry Greb.

---

Harry Greb ...hands down. 294 fights 7 losses .Once fought 32 times in one year.He often fought guys way out of his weight. He is the Ty Cobb of middleweights.

Imo its Toney

He didnt loose his discipline until late at supermiddle weight..

Toney with the discipline of hopkins ;) ..Now theres a fighter

Carlos Monzon.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nonito (formerly eagle)

Carlos Monzon.

---

Yep!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nonito (formerly eagle)

Carlos Monzon.

---

Yep!

---

This man was undefeated for 13 years. Doesnt get mentioned enough on any all time great list.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Taeth

Actually I would probably put Hagler ahead of RObinson because Robinson had a lot of troubles with Lamotta who was a sideshow compared to Hagler. Though I think RObinson had troubles with Lamotta because of his brawling type style I still believe Hagler could walk through anything RObinson could throw and eventually overwhelm him. Robinson didn't use as much footwork as Leonard and his feet weren't as fast.

---

I agree and besides the fact Robinson held the title 5 times ( I think it was 5 I may be wrong) Middleweight was not his best years despite his success. He struggles towards the end.

I would have to list it as either Hagler or depending on who you talk to Monzon

Hopkins is in the top 5.

It must go in terms of who did the most
Greb
Robinson
Hagler
Monzon
Ketchel
Zale
Hopkins

with other people inbetween.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Taeth

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by legend30

o almost forgot jake lamotta

---

A lot of the good fighters who face Lamotta beat him. He wasn't as good as the difficulties he gave Robinson made him out to be. I think Fulmer and Turpin were both better than him IMO. He would have beaten Fulmer due to size but I like Fulmer more as a complete fighter. YOu forgot Greb, FItzimmons, Zale, Ketchel... there are a lot of them.

---

Agreed 100%. I like Lamotta as much as the next guy but it seems like he gets way overrated for the fact that he beat Ray Robinson and gave him a string of tough fights. Styles make fights and Lamotta was a tough match for Sugar Ray, but like you said Lamotta was bested by a lot of good fighters as well.

IMO Lamotta doesn't belong in the top 10

I have to say my knowledge of Monzon is minmimal as he seems to be a forgotten man in boxing with never a mention of him but he was tall and rangy and held the title with a far tighter grip than Robinson.

In the words of Monzon himself, 'Robinson may have won the title 5 times, but he lost it 4 times, I won it once and never lost it',

I go

1: Monzon
2: Hagler
3: Robinson
4: Hopkins

The likes of Greb, Zale, Ketchel, Bassilio etc I havn't seen enough of to comment.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Taeth

It must go in terms of who did the most
Greb
Robinson
Hagler
Monzon
Ketchel
Zale
Hopkins

with other people inbetween.

---

I agree Greb was #1, Robinson second!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scrap

Time makes people forget, Monzons opponents were top drawer. Talk about technicians one of the best Ive seen, whether a mover or fighter hed get you. Had a wonderful sence of distance great chin and when he punched missed rarely, and was anasty cunt.

---

My thoughts exactly.
Most people either don't remember or just don't know who these fighters were back then.
It's not peoples faults I understand but some people come around here and just go look at the fighters record and try to pass judgement on these old school fighters like they've seen their fights or have any idea of who they're opponents were during that day in time.
People just don't know how highly regarded opponents were back then, I mean 1st and foremost he beat Benvenuti NO ONE gave Monzon a shot in hell to do it and he did. Gave the ex-champ his re-match and blasted him out in 3, and as if beating Emilie was a easy task then he did.
Another thing is that people don't know of the pesonal issues he had outside the ring and was able to go beyond them and continue to win.
Having issues with weight due to the injury he suffered in his leg thanks to his wife.
The issues he had with his family, I mean it was just a shit load of things that he overcame during that time.
I read an artcile from 1974 that read 'Monzon no es el hombre que pensavamos' / 'Monzon is not the man we thought he was' this was after Monzon had been stripped by the WBC for not fighting Rodrigo within the time he was given. Again people don't know he didn't fight him cause he was scared, he didn't fight him because of his life outside the ring interfeared. Now these aren't excuses for him not to fight, he got stripped and that was that. He got his shit together (sort of) had to cut weight and got in the ring with Rodrigo to tango beat 'em twice and ended his career on top.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by stavros693000

i voted hagler, although ray lennard was better than all three ;)

---

Marvin was the best.
never heard or Ray Lennard tho ? Ray Leonard was pretty good tho ;D ;D ;D ;D