Re: Floyd Mayweather VS Sugar Ray Robinson
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Originally Posted by Taeth
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Originally Posted by cockey cockney
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Originally Posted by Taeth
I am not comparing Zab in anyway with Ray except in speed and power, and thats because Zab was a very special athlete in terms of boxing. I would never compare their skill, determination, chin, heart, etc. etc. because Zab loses miserably compared to Ray. I think it will be interesting to see if ODLH can hit Floyd with his jab because though much slower than Ray's ODLH had a harder jab than SRR, and its very accurate like SRR to an extent. I believe from what I've seen Floyd is nullify the jab against pretty much anyone, and he also has a damn good jab himself especially in his younger years... I have never seen anyone jab so effectively to the body.
How you see Leonard-Mayweather going at Welter?
I lean towards Mayweather because Leonard had some problems I think Mayweather could capatilize on, but I think Leonard beats Robinson hands down... He's faster, he can take Robinson's punch, and is IMO is as good jabbing on the outside as SRR.
So you think it goes...
1)Mayweather
2)Leonard
3)SRR
??? ??? ???
Re: Floyd Mayweather VS Sugar Ray Robinson
At welterweight Ray Robinson was virtualy unbeatable...Most footage available of Ray is at middleweight. Long past Robinsons best days..At welterweight his speed was close to Floyds...Floyd is slightly faster...Slightly...Ray's reach is better and his power is easily better then Floyds...Ray would not allow Floyd to run...Ray always threw in combos ..Something Floyd is not used to...IMO Robinson by 8...Many will disagree but like Isaid it all depends on how many of Robinsons fights you have seen at welterweight...
Re: Floyd Mayweather VS Sugar Ray Robinson
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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn
At welterweight Ray Robinson was virtualy unbeatable...Most footage available of Ray is at middleweight. Long past Robinsons best days..At welterweight his speed was close to Floyds...Floyd is slightly faster...Slightly...Ray's reach is better and his power is easily better then Floyds...Ray would not allow Floyd to run...Ray always threw in combos ..Something Floyd is not used to...IMO Robinson by 8...Many will disagree but like Isaid it all depends on how many of Robinsons fights you have seen at welterweight...
Yup. By the time Ray was at MW, he had declined. He has slid a LOT by the Fullmer and Basilio fights and those get played a lot on Classic.
Re: Floyd Mayweather VS Sugar Ray Robinson
I've seen a few of his fights at welterweight, and he wasn't in the same speed class as Floyd... who was fast even at 118 pounds as an amateur.
Re: Floyd Mayweather VS Sugar Ray Robinson
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Originally Posted by cockey cockney
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Originally Posted by Taeth
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Originally Posted by cockey cockney
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
I am not comparing Zab in anyway with Ray except in speed and power, and thats because Zab was a very special athlete in terms of boxing. I would never compare their skill, determination, chin, heart, etc. etc. because Zab loses miserably compared to Ray. I think it will be interesting to see if ODLH can hit Floyd with his jab because though much slower than Ray's ODLH had a harder jab than SRR, and its very accurate like SRR to an extent. I believe from what I've seen Floyd is nullify the jab against pretty much anyone, and he also has a damn good jab himself especially in his younger years... I have never seen anyone jab so effectively to the body.
How you see Leonard-Mayweather going at Welter?
I lean towards Mayweather because Leonard had some problems I think Mayweather could capatilize on, but I think Leonard beats Robinson hands down... He's faster, he can take Robinson's punch, and is IMO is as good jabbing on the outside as SRR.
So you think it goes...
1)Mayweather
2)Leonard
3)SRR
??? ??? ???
Not at all I think Mayweather is the right fighter to beat Leonard, and Leonard is the right fighter to beat Robinson, but that its hard to say IMO who wins between Mayweather and Robinson at welterweight, though it being Robinson's natural weight I give him the benefit of the doubt. The reason I think Robinson would do better than Leonard against Mayweather is that he was busier fighter, and he didn't throw bullshit combinations that Mayweather would counter easily that Leonard threw all the time. I think Robinson was smarter than Leonard in the ring, and that along with his size might help against FLoyd. Its hard to say though how heavy Robinson would weigh in at welterweight, but he looked like a stick, and may very well have been not all that strong, but I believe that wasn't the case as he was able to get in there with middleweights and even a light heavyweight. The debate for me between Floyd and Robinson is can Robinson hurt Floyd if so Robinson could win potentially in the inside the 12 rounds, and if not I can't see him outboxing the quicker man.
In terms of athletic ability I believe thoguh its
1. Floyd
2. Leonard
3. Robinson
because athletes get better, and Floyd has the longest line of boxers before him
THe problem with Leonard is he wasn't trained as well it would seem as the other two, and in terms of boxing skill IMO it goes
1. Floyd
2. Robinson
3. Leonard
Because Floyd is the only one who truly has it all, but maybe not at welterweight. If he goes toe to toe with ODLH which I don't think he will, but if he does and wins I will believe he can fight on the inside against a bigger man who hits harder than either Robinson or Leonard no question. If your wondering what Ray Robinson doesn't have IMO its a great defense... its good, and the more I watch him the more I appreciate his footwork, and shoulder work to a degree, but he isn't on the same level as Whitaker or Mayweather, but more like Hopkins.
Re: Floyd Mayweather VS Sugar Ray Robinson
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Originally Posted by Taeth
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Originally Posted by cockey cockney
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
Quote:
Originally Posted by cockey cockney
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
I am not comparing Zab in anyway with Ray except in speed and power, and thats because Zab was a very special athlete in terms of boxing. I would never compare their skill, determination, chin, heart, etc. etc. because Zab loses miserably compared to Ray. I think it will be interesting to see if ODLH can hit Floyd with his jab because though much slower than Ray's ODLH had a harder jab than SRR, and its very accurate like SRR to an extent. I believe from what I've seen Floyd is nullify the jab against pretty much anyone, and he also has a damn good jab himself especially in his younger years... I have never seen anyone jab so effectively to the body.
How you see Leonard-Mayweather going at Welter?
I lean towards Mayweather because Leonard had some problems I think Mayweather could capatilize on, but I think Leonard beats Robinson hands down... He's faster, he can take Robinson's punch, and is IMO is as good jabbing on the outside as SRR.
So you think it goes...
1)Mayweather
2)Leonard
3)SRR
??? ??? ???
Not at all I think Mayweather is the right fighter to beat Leonard, and Leonard is the right fighter to beat Robinson, but that its hard to say IMO who wins between Mayweather and Robinson at welterweight, though it being Robinson's natural weight I give him the benefit of the doubt. The reason I think Robinson would do better than Leonard against Mayweather is that he was busier fighter, and he didn't throw bullshit combinations that Mayweather would counter easily that Leonard threw all the time. I think Robinson was smarter than Leonard in the ring, and that along with his size might help against FLoyd. Its hard to say though how heavy Robinson would weigh in at welterweight, but he looked like a stick, and may very well have been not all that strong, but I believe that wasn't the case as he was able to get in there with middleweights and even a light heavyweight. The debate for me between Floyd and Robinson is can Robinson hurt Floyd if so Robinson could win potentially in the inside the 12 rounds, and if not I can't see him outboxing the quicker man.
In terms of athletic ability I believe thoguh its
1. Floyd
2. Leonard
3. Robinson
because athletes get better, and Floyd has the longest line of boxers before him
THe problem with Leonard is he wasn't trained as well it would seem as the other two, and in terms of boxing skill IMO it goes
1. Floyd
2. Robinson
3. Leonard
Because Floyd is the only one who truly has it all, but maybe not at welterweight. If he goes toe to toe with ODLH which I don't think he will, but if he does and wins I will believe he can fight on the inside against a bigger man who hits harder than either Robinson or Leonard no question. If your wondering what Ray Robinson doesn't have IMO its a great defense... its good, and the more I watch him the more I appreciate his footwork, and shoulder work to a degree, but he isn't on the same level as Whitaker or Mayweather, but more like Hopkins.
Some good points and fair enough. Personally i think Leonard was MUCH better at WW then anyone that PBF has fought. And id say he was a clearly better fighter then ODLH also. Robinson is one of the very few people if not the only one i see beating Leonard more often then not at WW. I would only put that closely tho, like 6 times to Robinson, 4 to Leonard.
Re: Floyd Mayweather VS Sugar Ray Robinson
I think because Robinson never faced anyone fast he would have had alot of troubles with Leonard's combinations... A fighter who has relied on speed to beat his opponents his whole career definitely has alot of trouble when that advantage is not there anymore... It took FLoyd a few rounds to figure out Zab, and I'm not sure Roy has still configured himself to being even in the same league in terms of speed as his opponents. The thing is, is that, I saw Robinson not able to adapt to beat Lamotta in their first fight while I've seen Mayweahter adapt in 1 round to beat an opponent before. WHen I say Mayweather is a better athlete however I am saying p4p for when he was at 130 where IMO he hit as hard as either of them, and he way faster than at 147, and he had alot more footwork. I believe that still at welterweight his reflexes and speed are still unparalleled, but to a much smaller degree, but that doesn't change the fact that I feel his defense would be unlike anything the other two have seen. The best defensive fighter Leonard fought IMO was Duran who was slower than him by alot, and still gave Leonard troubles getting in. I think that both Robinson and Leonard were more cautious on the outside than Mayweather, and couldn't pot shot as efficiently as he could so unless they or anyone could beat Mayweather on the inside like in Castillo I, and that was a combination of injury along with bruteness for Mayweather to be beaten.
Re: Floyd Mayweather VS Sugar Ray Robinson
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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn
At welterweight Ray Robinson was virtualy unbeatable...Most footage available of Ray is at middleweight. Long past Robinsons best days..At welterweight his speed was close to Floyds...Floyd is slightly faster...Slightly...Ray's reach is better and his power is easily better then Floyds...Ray would not allow Floyd to run...Ray always threw in combos ..Something Floyd is not used to...IMO Robinson by 8...Many will disagree but like Isaid it all depends on how many of Robinsons fights you have seen at welterweight...
CC,totally agreed.Excellent post.
Re: Floyd Mayweather VS Sugar Ray Robinson
mine is a completely uneducated view to be honest...
SRR has the reach, power and size advantage...
Floyd has speed and defence...
as ive only recently got into boxing thoroughly ive only seen a handful of floyds n maybe a couple of SRR's fights!
i think before i could personally pick one here id need to see how floyd's chin is...
hes pretty untested in that respect and im failry sure SRR would catch him...i just cant say how much it would affect floyd until i see him caught flush more often.
Re: Floyd Mayweather VS Sugar Ray Robinson
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Originally Posted by El Gamo
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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn
At welterweight Ray Robinson was virtualy unbeatable...Most footage available of Ray is at middleweight. Long past Robinsons best days..At welterweight his speed was close to Floyds...Floyd is slightly faster...Slightly...Ray's reach is better and his power is easily better then Floyds...Ray would not allow Floyd to run...Ray always threw in combos ..Something Floyd is not used to...IMO Robinson by 8...Many will disagree but like Isaid it all depends on how many of Robinsons fights you have seen at welterweight...
CC,totally agreed.Excellent post.
Thank you...CC back at ya
Re: Floyd Mayweather VS Sugar Ray Robinson
honestly i can say robinson would destroy him but it can go either way just cuz floyd got skills
Re: Floyd Mayweather VS Sugar Ray Robinson
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Originally Posted by CutMeMicK
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Originally Posted by Scrap
Im lost for words
Well.... My jaw hit the floor when I read the title of thread so I know what you mean. :(
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Originally Posted by Taeth
I'm just wondering when you older fighters became fans because a large part of you guys overexaggerating the skill of older fighters is psychologically because people tend to be very fixed in their mind set, and naturally are unlikely to change their opinions even if the facts are staring them in the face.
I definitely agree with Taeth on this. Old-time greats achieve this kind of untouchable, mythical status because they are a story and a legend, something that becomes airbrushed as time moves on. People act incredulously if someone dares to suggest they could be bested by a current fighter, just some bloke who you can see on tv whenever you want and read about in the press every day. At the end of the day, in most sports the greatest ever exponent is a member of the current, or a very recent, generation. Sports evolve, generations of athletes take what was good from previous eras and improve on it, and so on.
It definitely makes sense to talk about SRR as the GOAT in terms of his record and what he achieved, but I think there are plently of modern fighters who would beat him if you could make some kind of time machine.
Re: Floyd Mayweather VS Sugar Ray Robinson
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Originally Posted by berttrauttman
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Originally Posted by CutMeMicK
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Originally Posted by Scrap
Im lost for words
Well.... My jaw hit the floor when I read the title of thread so I know what you mean. :(
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
I'm just wondering when you older fighters became fans because a large part of you guys overexaggerating the skill of older fighters is psychologically because people tend to be very fixed in their mind set, and naturally are unlikely to change their opinions even if the facts are staring them in the face.
I definitely agree with Taeth on this. Old-time greats achieve this kind of untouchable, mythical status because they are a story and a legend, something that becomes airbrushed as time moves on. People act incredulously if someone dares to suggest they could be bested by a current fighter, just some bloke who you can see on tv whenever you want and read about in the press every day. At the end of the day, in most sports the greatest ever exponent is a member of the current, or a very recent, generation. Sports evolve, generations of athletes take what was good from previous eras and improve on it, and so on.
It definitely makes sense to talk about SRR as the GOAT in terms of his record and what he achieved, but I think there are plently of modern fighters who would beat him if you could make some kind of time machine.
Fair points....However the thing with the olden day greats such as Leonard, Ali there was SOO many great fighters around. I mean look at the FAB 4....Leonard, Heanrs, Duran, Hagler....compare that to....Mayweather,Hatton,Cotto,Taylor. It isnt close on who had the better competition and that is what stays in so many peoples minds.
Re: Floyd Mayweather VS Sugar Ray Robinson
Bert I know where youre comingfrom I use to think the same thing when I was young.
Re: Floyd Mayweather VS Sugar Ray Robinson
Lol i guess the topic you mean is .. Over time such great fighters are catapulted with hype..
And 99.5% you dont believe the Hype...
Sugar Ray Robinson is The 0.5%
Mann i never thought i could truely enjoy a fight that was 56 odd years old and that was black and white with it sounding like the commentators tap on the microphone everytime a punch lands...
But when you ignore all that..You see some serious shit in there..
Fighters like robinson, lamotta , charles..Hell even Johnson take alot of these publicised, hyped up fighters of today to school...
Im not talking today's school..Im talkin school back when they gave you six of the best ;D :lickish: ;)
