Re: Ice Cold Changed His Mind Slighty About Ali Was He Overrated ??
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Originally Posted by amat
Ali wasn't unbeatable no one is. But he is the greatest heavyweight of all time. Fought the best, beat the best even when he was past his best.
He had trouble with Cooper early in his career, the split glove gave him an 11 second rest, and who's to say he couldn't have won that fight without the glove and salts?
Jones had just beat Zora Folley and was at his absolute best against a young Ali who was in between big fights. And Ali still won. And he was still 2 or 3 years from his prime.
IMO, he beat Norton twice, and one with a broken jaw.
But, those are minor footnotes of Ali's career. Honestly, that's nitpicking very much ICB. He fought in the strongest era of heavyweight history, gave some of the best fights of all time, and pretty well dominated.
CC,excellent post. Ali's achievemnts are being belittled somewhat here! Don't just look at the close fights/losses,look at who he beat first and second,to whomever said Lewis could beat Ali......... ::** ::**
Re: Ice Cold Changed His Mind Slighty About Ali Was He Overrated ??
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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Ron Lyle fight with Ali was pretty even until he run out of steam imo he is overrated like quite few people on here agree with aswell and i think Holmes would beat him and Lewis would have good shot aswell.
Lyle was a pure physical specimen,and a plodding specimen like Lewis would have been manna from heaven for Ali
Lyle used to plod aswell and was open Lewis was tall and in his younger days was fast and had good power and Lewis would give Ali fits and no way Ali beats Lewis easy.
When did Lewis give anyone fits? Hell Klitschko(not exactly a speed demon) was outpointing Lewis
When did Lewis give anyone fits ?? uhh he was best hw fighter of last 15 years and Klit was tall and rangy and gave Lewis trouble but Lewis was past it and still won in 6 and if your saying that then Ron Lyle wasn't speed demon nor was Doug Jones nor was Cooper but these guys gave Ali good argument.
Re: Ice Cold Changed His Mind Slighty About Ali Was He Overrated ??
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Originally Posted by El Gamo
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Originally Posted by amat
Ali wasn't unbeatable no one is. But he is the greatest heavyweight of all time. Fought the best, beat the best even when he was past his best.
He had trouble with Cooper early in his career, the split glove gave him an 11 second rest, and who's to say he couldn't have won that fight without the glove and salts?
Jones had just beat Zora Folley and was at his absolute best against a young Ali who was in between big fights. And Ali still won. And he was still 2 or 3 years from his prime.
IMO, he beat Norton twice, and one with a broken jaw.
But, those are minor footnotes of Ali's career. Honestly, that's nitpicking very much ICB. He fought in the strongest era of heavyweight history, gave some of the best fights of all time, and pretty well dominated.
CC,excellent post. Ali's achievemnts are being belittled somewhat here! Don't just look at the close fights/losses,look at who he beat first and second,to whomever said Lewis could beat Ali......... ::** ::**
No one is taking away his achievements the title thread stated was he overrated and i believe he was and is it so hard to believe that 240 pound good hw like Lewis can't beat Ali ??
Re: Ice Cold Changed His Mind Slighty About Ali Was He Overrated ??
It is nitpicking though ICB, because honestly, Doug Jones? He beat Jones anyways. They aren't gifts they were close. Chavez - Whitaker was a gift, Ali never got any gifts there are very very strong cases that he has legitimately won every fight that he is won. The Jones fight was a good one, but Ali won comfortably imo. Jones certainly didn't win.
Ali isn't a great for his wins over Cooper and Jones, so for arguments sake, lets say he did lose those, would he still not be the greatest heavyweight of all time? He would be number 2 at the very worst.
Re: Ice Cold Changed His Mind Slighty About Ali Was He Overrated ??
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Ron Lyle fight with Ali was pretty even until he run out of steam imo he is overrated like quite few people on here agree with aswell and i think Holmes would beat him and Lewis would have good shot aswell.
Lyle was a pure physical specimen,and a plodding specimen like Lewis would have been manna from heaven for Ali
Lyle used to plod aswell and was open Lewis was tall and in his younger days was fast and had good power and Lewis would give Ali fits and no way Ali beats Lewis easy.
When did Lewis give anyone fits? Hell Klitschko(not exactly a speed demon) was outpointing Lewis
When did Lewis give anyone fits ?? uhh he was best hw fighter of last 15 years and Klit was tall and rangy and gave Lewis trouble but Lewis was past it and still won in 6 and if your saying that Ron Lyle wasn't speed demon nor was Doug Jones nor was Cooper but these guys gave Ali good argument.
Yet another way your judging this wrong
If a champ fights twice a year now we consider him an active fighter,the year Ali fought Lyle,he also fought Wepner,Bugner,and Frazier
The year he fought Cooper,he also fought Chuvalo,Mildenburger,Williams,and London
Re: Ice Cold Changed His Mind Slighty About Ali Was He Overrated ??
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Originally Posted by amat
It is nitpicking though ICB, because honestly, Doug Jones? He beat Jones anyways. They aren't gifts they were close. Chavez - Whitaker was a gift, Ali never got any gifts there are very very strong cases that he has legitimately won every fight that he is won. The Jones fight was a good one, but Ali won comfortably imo. Jones certainly didn't win.
Ali isn't a great for his wins over Cooper and Jones, so for arguments sake, lets say he did lose those, would he still not be the greatest heavyweight of all time? He would be number 2 at the very worst.
But Jones was average and he did struggle with him and i already gave my reasons about Cooper he would be Lightheavyweight in todays standards yet Ali had to have smelling salts to wake him up and actually Ali did get gifts Norton should of won 3rd fight like alot of people think and Jimmy Young made Ali look ordinary and should of got decision and he wouldn't be number 2 if he would of lost these decisions i can guarantee you that.
Re: Ice Cold Changed His Mind Slighty About Ali Was He Overrated ??
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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Ron Lyle fight with Ali was pretty even until he run out of steam imo he is overrated like quite few people on here agree with aswell and i think Holmes would beat him and Lewis would have good shot aswell.
Lyle was a pure physical specimen,and a plodding specimen like Lewis would have been manna from heaven for Ali
Lyle used to plod aswell and was open Lewis was tall and in his younger days was fast and had good power and Lewis would give Ali fits and no way Ali beats Lewis easy.
When did Lewis give anyone fits? Hell Klitschko(not exactly a speed demon) was outpointing Lewis
When did Lewis give anyone fits ?? uhh he was best hw fighter of last 15 years and Klit was tall and rangy and gave Lewis trouble but Lewis was past it and still won in 6 and if your saying that Ron Lyle wasn't speed demon nor was Doug Jones nor was Cooper but these guys gave Ali good argument.
Yet another way your judging this wrong
If a champ fights twice a year now we consider him an active fighter,the year Ali fought Lyle,he also fought Wepner,Bugner,and Frazier
The year he fought Cooper,he also fought Chuvalo,Mildenburger,Williams,and London
But whats that got to do with these guys i mentioned who aren't fast giving Ali trouble ?? hell Mike Tyson had like 10 fights a year and that was better for him because it kept him focused.
Re: Ice Cold Changed His Mind Slighty About Ali Was He Overrated ??
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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
Ask Ron Lyle if he was overrated
And dude,it was a goverment census that says he didnt exist,but his siblings did
So other then the goverment census records,and his prison records,and his boxing records we've got nothing right?
An elderly,illiterate sharecropers memory,asked years upon years later is much more accurate right?
Then why does virtually every boxing expert agree with the fact he couldn't be 32? Do you have proof of the this census, where did you read this etc.? Maybe you were misinformed. PS Ron Lyle was a joke.
Re: Ice Cold Changed His Mind Slighty About Ali Was He Overrated ??
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Ron Lyle fight with Ali was pretty even until he run out of steam imo he is overrated like quite few people on here agree with aswell and i think Holmes would beat him and Lewis would have good shot aswell.
Lyle was a pure physical specimen,and a plodding specimen like Lewis would have been manna from heaven for Ali
Lyle used to plod aswell and was open Lewis was tall and in his younger days was fast and had good power and Lewis would give Ali fits and no way Ali beats Lewis easy.
When did Lewis give anyone fits? Hell Klitschko(not exactly a speed demon) was outpointing Lewis
When did Lewis give anyone fits ?? uhh he was best hw fighter of last 15 years and Klit was tall and rangy and gave Lewis trouble but Lewis was past it and still won in 6 and if your saying that Ron Lyle wasn't speed demon nor was Doug Jones nor was Cooper but these guys gave Ali good argument.
Yet another way your judging this wrong
If a champ fights twice a year now we consider him an active fighter,the year Ali fought Lyle,he also fought Wepner,Bugner,and Frazier
The year he fought Cooper,he also fought Chuvalo,Mildenburger,Williams,and London
But whats that got to do with these guys i mentioned who aren't fast giving Ali trouble ?? hell Mike Tyson had like 10 fights a year and that was better for him because it kept him focused.
Only for the first 2 years of his career,he never had more then 4 in a year after that
Re: Ice Cold Changed His Mind Slighty About Ali Was He Overrated ??
Well if you match up Ali that faced Jones versus Lewis, Lewis would probably win but that wasn't a big fight. Lewis would be a big fight, bet he would be better then then he was against Jones. Lewis looked worse then ordinary in a routine title defense against Rahman because the fight probably didn't mean much to him.
Re: Ice Cold Changed His Mind Slighty About Ali Was He Overrated ??
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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Ron Lyle fight with Ali was pretty even until he run out of steam imo he is overrated like quite few people on here agree with aswell and i think Holmes would beat him and Lewis would have good shot aswell.
Lyle was a pure physical specimen,and a plodding specimen like Lewis would have been manna from heaven for Ali
ARe you KIDDING me?!!! Lewis was faster, stronger, and more skilled than Lyle. Lewis is among the best athletes to ever box. You should be comparing his athleticism to Tyson, Ali, and Jones not Lyle who just had strength, no speed whatsoever, and only average boxing skills.
Re: Ice Cold Changed His Mind Slighty About Ali Was He Overrated ??
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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Ron Lyle fight with Ali was pretty even until he run out of steam imo he is overrated like quite few people on here agree with aswell and i think Holmes would beat him and Lewis would have good shot aswell.
Lyle was a pure physical specimen,and a plodding specimen like Lewis would have been manna from heaven for Ali
Lyle used to plod aswell and was open Lewis was tall and in his younger days was fast and had good power and Lewis would give Ali fits and no way Ali beats Lewis easy.
When did Lewis give anyone fits? Hell Klitschko(not exactly a speed demon) was outpointing Lewis
When did Lewis give anyone fits ?? uhh he was best hw fighter of last 15 years and Klit was tall and rangy and gave Lewis trouble but Lewis was past it and still won in 6 and if your saying that Ron Lyle wasn't speed demon nor was Doug Jones nor was Cooper but these guys gave Ali good argument.
Yet another way your judging this wrong
If a champ fights twice a year now we consider him an active fighter,the year Ali fought Lyle,he also fought Wepner,Bugner,and Frazier
The year he fought Cooper,he also fought Chuvalo,Mildenburger,Williams,and London
But whats that got to do with these guys i mentioned who aren't fast giving Ali trouble ?? hell Mike Tyson had like 10 fights a year and that was better for him because it kept him focused.
Only for the first 2 years of his career,he never had more then 4 in a year after that
Yes and thats when he started to lose focus and again what does what you stated above have anything to do with Ali struggling against slow guys like Jones Lyle and Cooper.
Re: Ice Cold Changed His Mind Slighty About Ali Was He Overrated ??
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Ron Lyle fight with Ali was pretty even until he run out of steam imo he is overrated like quite few people on here agree with aswell and i think Holmes would beat him and Lewis would have good shot aswell.
Lyle was a pure physical specimen,and a plodding specimen like Lewis would have been manna from heaven for Ali
Lyle used to plod aswell and was open Lewis was tall and in his younger days was fast and had good power and Lewis would give Ali fits and no way Ali beats Lewis easy.
When did Lewis give anyone fits? Hell Klitschko(not exactly a speed demon) was outpointing Lewis
When did Lewis give anyone fits ?? uhh he was best hw fighter of last 15 years and Klit was tall and rangy and gave Lewis trouble but Lewis was past it and still won in 6 and if your saying that Ron Lyle wasn't speed demon nor was Doug Jones nor was Cooper but these guys gave Ali good argument.
Yet another way your judging this wrong
If a champ fights twice a year now we consider him an active fighter,the year Ali fought Lyle,he also fought Wepner,Bugner,and Frazier
The year he fought Cooper,he also fought Chuvalo,Mildenburger,Williams,and London
But whats that got to do with these guys i mentioned who aren't fast giving Ali trouble ?? hell Mike Tyson had like 10 fights a year and that was better for him because it kept him focused.
Only for the first 2 years of his career,he never had more then 4 in a year after that
Yes and thats when he started to lose focus and again what does what you stated above have anything to do with Ali struggling against slow guys like Jones Lyle and Cooper.
Because Ali fought those guys when they were rated,and he was champ
Not early record padders
And even then,I have conceded,that Ali OFTEN screwed around with guys
Hell he should have had Foley out of there way earlier then he did,but he toyed with his food
Re: Ice Cold Changed His Mind Slighty About Ali Was He Overrated ??
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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Ron Lyle fight with Ali was pretty even until he run out of steam imo he is overrated like quite few people on here agree with aswell and i think Holmes would beat him and Lewis would have good shot aswell.
Lyle was a pure physical specimen,and a plodding specimen like Lewis would have been manna from heaven for Ali
Lyle used to plod aswell and was open Lewis was tall and in his younger days was fast and had good power and Lewis would give Ali fits and no way Ali beats Lewis easy.
When did Lewis give anyone fits? Hell Klitschko(not exactly a speed demon) was outpointing Lewis
When did Lewis give anyone fits ?? uhh he was best hw fighter of last 15 years and Klit was tall and rangy and gave Lewis trouble but Lewis was past it and still won in 6 and if your saying that Ron Lyle wasn't speed demon nor was Doug Jones nor was Cooper but these guys gave Ali good argument.
Yet another way your judging this wrong
If a champ fights twice a year now we consider him an active fighter,the year Ali fought Lyle,he also fought Wepner,Bugner,and Frazier
The year he fought Cooper,he also fought Chuvalo,Mildenburger,Williams,and London
But whats that got to do with these guys i mentioned who aren't fast giving Ali trouble ?? hell Mike Tyson had like 10 fights a year and that was better for him because it kept him focused.
Only for the first 2 years of his career,he never had more then 4 in a year after that
Yes and thats when he started to lose focus and again what does what you stated above have anything to do with Ali struggling against slow guys like Jones Lyle and Cooper.
Because Ali fought those guys when they were rated,and he was champ
Not early record padders
And even then,I have conceded,that Ali OFTEN screwed around with guys
Hell he should have had Foley out of there way earlier then he did,but he toyed with his food
He still struggled and Ali didn't screw around with Jones or Lyle.
Re: Ice Cold Changed His Mind Slighty About Ali Was He Overrated ??
Where does everybody get this Lewis was an Athlete from, he wasnt. I know people that have run with him, Hes was a plodder had to be carrying that amount of weight. They went running one day, and a woman pushing a pram passed them.
