UFC Is Delusional

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Originally Posted by HeadFone39

Trainer Monkey, sorry, maybe i'm not so good at reading comprehension, could you re-word that? interested in your opinion, but didnt really catch that.

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Let me explain
If youve put the time in,your hand and foot speed should be sufficient to never let grappling happen,except in certain situations against a slower opponent.Even then,you dont climb on top,you hit him hard enough and in a vulnerable enough area,that the situation stops.
Putting it in perspective,Im training for one last fight,my stamina is hideous(it will improve) but I put so many hours in to training for speed,that its still there(happy suprise that)
ie you cant grab me to grapple,if I hit and move at will.
Also the foot speed is insufficient to keep guy off
Most of the kicks I see,are slow and looping,rather then crisp,and their rarely snapped off,or driven
Watch proper Thai kickboxing,and youll immediatly see the difference

A couple points to reiterate and make:

1. Floyd opened this can of worms. I personally wish Dana would take more of a back seat to his org and quit making such a spectacle of himself. I think it is to much like a "vince mcmahon" type personality and it discredits MMA somewhat. That being said Zuffa and White have taken a fledglig sport and turned it into if nothing else a very marketable and financially successfull form of entertainment. So they deserve some credit. I don't blame white for defending the sport. If Floyd is man enough to bash the sport and its fighters then I don't see anything wrong with the UFC's president holding his feet to the fire.

2. Enough with the "beer swilling bar brawling" moniker of MMA fighters. The days of Tank Abbot and his like are long gone. Most MMA fighters were All-American and World Class atheletes. Champions in Sambo/Judo/BJJ/Freestyle & Greco Roman wrestling/kickboxing etc.

3. You can't judge MMA fighting through a boxing perspective. B/C of the versatility of the sport many of the fundamentals of boxing simply have to be augmented. Instead of Chuck's style being nothing but sloppy looping punches isn't it quite possibel that it is simply an alteration of boxings counterpunchin, use of angles and stance? At the end of the day entertainment is subjective, but to call top MMA fighters anything else other than highly skilled world class athelets is absurd.

Lastly I personally don't think Floyd would make it out of the first round against Sherk in the Octagon, much like I'd be suprised if sherk made it past a round in a boxing ring. I can't think of a single MMA fighter that I'd pick in his respective weight div against a top 20 boxer in a boxig ring. Vice Versa there are some boxers w/ 6-12 months of MMA training that I think could be competitive. But the idea that a boxer could get in the octagon next month and beat a UFC/Pride champ is just ignorant. MMA is about versatility. MMA fighters are the most versatile combatants in the world. W/ the MMA world turning more towards deadly strikers w/good takedown defense I wouldn't be suprised to see a bigger influence in MMA from the boxing world. Two very different but great sports. Can we stop rehashing this very old thread and simply just discuss MMA?

Training Monkey, well ya, exactly, I'm not under any illusion that the striking in MMA is anywhere let say, Buakaws level or anything. But by your estimation, all of K-1 strikers that came into Pride should have demolished the opponent anytime they faced a grappler, it would have been a simple concept of the grappler not being able to close the distance, and paying for it anytime he tried engage. But that's it, you can't put the time into conditioning your speed to a point where it is head and shoulders above anyone else, because at some point, no it will not be enough to avoid the clinch and you will be taken down. You can't simply say, well I'm a great stiker, I'll just stick and move. Not only does your training have to split between many different aspects of the fight, but it has to be tailored to the ability of your opponent in each of those areas. Sometimes there's a far better stiker than grappler, a vice versa, and sometimes the fighter is quite well rounded. By no means is he training to compete in thai boxing. All I'm trying to say is many things in MMA need development, give it time. Also it shouldn't be judged by a passing glance at UFCs sh1tty reality show, I honestly don't know where they get those guys.

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Originally Posted by HeadFone39

Training Monkey, well ya, exactly, I'm not under any illusion that the striking in MMA is anywhere let say, Buakaws level or anything. But by your estimation, all of K-1 strikers that came into Pride should have demolished the opponent anytime they faced a grappler, it would have been a simple concept of the grappler not being able to close the distance, and paying for it anytime he tried engage. But that's it, you can't put the time into conditioning your speed to a point where it is head and shoulders above anyone else, because at some point, no it will not be enough to avoid the clinch and you will be taken down. You can't simply say, well I'm a great stiker, I'll just stick and move. Not only does your training have to split between many different aspects of the fight, but it has to be tailored to the ability of your opponent in each of those areas. Sometimes there's a far better stiker than grappler, a vice versa, and sometimes the fighter is quite well rounded. By no means is he training to compete in thai boxing. All I'm trying to say is many things in MMA need development, give it time. Also it shouldn't be judged by a passing glance at UFCs sh1tty reality show, I honestly don't know where they get those guys.

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Even K-1 has gotten dodgey lately
I hate both the UFC/and the Straight Boxing reality shows
They both create the illusion that anyone can do it
No,in point of fact,not
I generally stick to Mu Thai for my martial arts viewing pleasure,and boxing.
If I want a happy myth,Ill watch wrassling

SO you like the refined techincal aspect of it. Nonething wrong with that. I like versatility and strategy. So how is it myth?? MMA = boxing + MT + BJJ + Judo ect . . . and you apparently like all of those so Honorable Sport + honroable Sport + Honorable Sport = Complete farse?? The last thing I want to do is to dengrate someone for simply having their own opinions, but seriously, give them A LITTLE credit, even if the terrible form makes your cringe.

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Originally Posted by HeadFone39

SO you like the refined techincal aspect of it. Nonething wrong with that. I like versatility and strategy. So how is it myth?? MMA = boxing + MT + BJJ + Judo ect . . . and you apparently like all of those so Honorable Sport + honroable Sport + Honorable Sport = Complete farse?? The last thing I want to do is to dengrate someone for simply having their own opinions, but seriously, give them A LITTLE credit, even if the terrible form makes your cringe.

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No that comment was more directed at The Contender,and whatever the UFC version is
The guys that win,still get massacered at the big boy version

ahh, so sorry. Very true, but unfortunatly with MMA, most of the current popularity boom in the U.S. is based of the reality show, which is why you have so many UFC (notice i didn't use MMA) fans that know dick all about fighting, and also why it is stuggling for legitimacy among the combat sports world, and long established sports like boxing. Don;t get me wrong, I love MMA, I'm just very bitter about it at this point in time.

edit: and I agree, K-1's gone down hill, I'll always use the 1999-2003 era when referring to it.

This is old. Am really getting fed up with these threads now.

Its gone full circle probably 3 times already. No disrespect but a lot of the people who dont appreciate MMA are ignorant.

This debate has just got so boring now.

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

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Originally Posted by HeadFone39

SO you like the refined techincal aspect of it. Nonething wrong with that. I like versatility and strategy. So how is it myth?? MMA = boxing + MT + BJJ + Judo ect . . . and you apparently like all of those so Honorable Sport + honroable Sport + Honorable Sport = Complete farse?? The last thing I want to do is to dengrate someone for simply having their own opinions, but seriously, give them A LITTLE credit, even if the terrible form makes your cringe.

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No that comment was more directed at The Contender,and whatever the UFC version is
The guys that win,still get massacered at the big boy version

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Yep, thats why Matt Serra beat GSP.


*lucky punch...GSP will own him next time* ;D

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Originally Posted by Munky

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

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Originally Posted by HeadFone39

SO you like the refined techincal aspect of it. Nonething wrong with that. I like versatility and strategy. So how is it myth?? MMA = boxing + MT + BJJ + Judo ect . . . and you apparently like all of those so Honorable Sport + honroable Sport + Honorable Sport = Complete farse?? The last thing I want to do is to dengrate someone for simply having their own opinions, but seriously, give them A LITTLE credit, even if the terrible form makes your cringe.

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No that comment was more directed at The Contender,and whatever the UFC version is
The guys that win,still get massacered at the big boy version

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Yep, thats why Matt Serra beat GSP.


*lucky punch...GSP will own him next time* ;D

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For as much as I care
It was a kick ;D

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

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Originally Posted by Munky

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

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Originally Posted by HeadFone39

SO you like the refined techincal aspect of it. Nonething wrong with that. I like versatility and strategy. So how is it myth?? MMA = boxing + MT + BJJ + Judo ect . . . and you apparently like all of those so Honorable Sport + honroable Sport + Honorable Sport = Complete farse?? The last thing I want to do is to dengrate someone for simply having their own opinions, but seriously, give them A LITTLE credit, even if the terrible form makes your cringe.

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No that comment was more directed at The Contender,and whatever the UFC version is
The guys that win,still get massacered at the big boy version

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Yep, thats why Matt Serra beat GSP.


*lucky punch...GSP will own him next time* ;D

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For as much as I care
It was a kick ;D

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Erm.....it was a punch that knocked GSP down and then it was stopped via punches on the ground ???

Watch the fight

You might be getting mixed up with GSP downing Hughes with a kick and then stopping him.

You obviously don't care or know what you're talking about! At least get it right if you're gonna get smart a$$

;D

Your right,Im tired,had to get up early for a stupid ass parent teacher confrence

tis true, if it's what Munky in referring to didn't he take a glancing blow to the back of the neck that sent him wonky before ground and pound took him out? Lucky/unlucky shows what can happen. ;)

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

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Originally Posted by HeadFone39

Trainer Monkey, sorry, maybe i'm not so good at reading comprehension, could you re-word that? interested in your opinion, but didnt really catch that.

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Let me explain
If youve put the time in,your hand and foot speed should be sufficient to never let grappling happen,except in certain situations against a slower opponent.Even then,you dont climb on top,you hit him hard enough and in a vulnerable enough area,that the situation stops.
Putting it in perspective,Im training for one last fight,my stamina is hideous(it will improve) but I put so many hours in to training for speed,that its still there(happy suprise that)
ie you cant grab me to grapple,if I hit and move at will.
Also the foot speed is insufficient to keep guy off
Most of the kicks I see,are slow and looping,rather then crisp,and their rarely snapped off,or driven
Watch proper Thai kickboxing,and youll immediatly see the difference

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I've got to disagree man. A look at any boxing match shows the idea of keeping another fighter at a distance perpetually isn't going to happen. How many clinches are there in an avg. fight? How often do fighters fight on the inside? I'm not saying that you will definately get taken down just b/c a fighter gets close I think guys like Chuck/Mirko/GSP etc have shown an awesome abilty to keep the fight standing even when the clinch or single leg is obtained, but good movement and punching isn't going to keep a fighter at a distance where he can't attempt a takedown or clinch. An MMA fighter doesn't have to be a world class boxer, he just has to be good enough to get close enough to utilize his other skill sets.