If Ali Fought Marciano's Opponents and Marciano Fought Ali's Opponents.....

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Originally Posted by undefeated

every1 picks on marciano 4 his opposition but yet joe louis's was no better.

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To be honest outside of the 70's there weren't a lot of many great fighters around at the same time at most the heavys had 2 or 3 and atleast one of them was over the hill.

Buster Mathis was a BUM

Ken Norton didn't do power punchers.....check his record




Joe Louis was a great boxer.....I'd pick him over a lot of other greats.


Lots of people so easily forget the intangibles....heart, desire to win, dedication, how they fought in the championship rounds.....and most importantly how they handled adversity

Styles, Power, and Size don't always win fights....oddly enough

....funny how no one notices how shot fighters are until a couple years down the road

I'm gonna try to make a list to prove my point about the heavyweight division. This list will only include those that a majority of people agree on being hall of famers.

Late 1800's:
Johnson

1910- late 20's:
Dempsey
Tunney
Johnson

1930's-late 40's
Johnson (over hill by now)
Louis
Baer
Marciano (early days)

1950's
Liston
Louis (overhill)
Marciano


1960's-70's (the golden era):
Clay/ Prime Ali
Liston
Frazier
Foreman
Norton
Holmes

1980's:
Holmes (overhill)
Tyson
Holyfield (lightheavy)
Lewis (just getting started)
Bowe (just getting started)

1990's:
Holmes (overhill)
Tyson (overhill)
Foreman (overhill)
Holyfield
Lewis
Bowe

2000's (damn we need new people :o):
Holmes (overhill)
Lewis (overhill)
Tyson (done)
Holyfield (overhill)
Bowe (overhill)
Toney (overhill and mildly brain damaged)

IF IF IF IF my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle

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Originally Posted by USA LOVES THE KLITSCHKOS

IF IF IF IF my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle

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if your aunt has balls that means your cousin is adopted.

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Originally Posted by skyler

I can't think of too many heavyweights who wouldn't be 49-0 with 49 knockouts with Marciano's opponents.

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I agree.. The opposition was not that tough. Sort of like Mike Tyson retiring after Spinks. That would have been the best move Mike could have made.

Marciano would still be undefeated without having to run his mouth and constantly tell everyone he is the greatest...whereas Ali would be lucky to win 12 against Marciano's opponnents.

i smell hater.....

Anybody can win any given fight. What ifs are coulda shoulda wouldas. If size and weight didn't matter then we'd have featherweight fighting super heavyweights. of course size matters. It doesn't guarantee a win every fight but it does give you advantages. Rocky ko'd joe louis when louis outweighed him by 20 some pounds. Size and greatness didn't matter in that fight, but it does in a lot of others.

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Originally Posted by skyler

Anyone capable of knocking out a prime George Foreman is more than likely to knockout 49 pint-sized heavyweight opponents.

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Dumb assumption to make because there are too many different scenarios. If you remember, Ali didn't exactly blast Foreman out. He waited until George was exhausted and had nothing left, knocked him down, and George was unable to get up.

You think every one of Marciano's opponents would gas out like Foreman did?

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Originally Posted by Lyle

The list goes on and on......only idiots like you think bigger guys always win......Nicolay Valuev anyone???

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The bigger guy doesn't always win, but IMO Marciano's style put him at a huge disadvantage to guys who were much bigger like Foreman, Liston, and even Frazier.

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Originally Posted by sexydarin

Rocky ko'd joe louis when louis outweighed him by 20 some pounds. Size and greatness didn't matter in that fight, but it does in a lot of others.

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Again you fail to mention that Jou Louis was WAAAAY over the hill when he fought Marciano. I mean, Ali had the weight advantage over Holmes and Berbick too.

Is it just me or is this thread filled with terribly flawed logic??

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Originally Posted by Punisher136

Sonny Liston I - KOd in 3 (Let me break this too you gently... no one and i mean NO ONE is gonna floor the rock for a straight up 10 count thats an absurd prediction a tko on cuts is a different story)

Sonny Liston II - KOd in 1  ::**

George Chuvalo I - KOd in 4 (All im gonna say is i'll bet every cent i can get my hands on for the OVER)

George Chuvalo II - KOd in 1 (The only thing more ridiculous than saying the rock would hit the floor for the count in the first is saying chuvalo would hit the floor for the count in the first)

Joe Frazier I - KOd in 4 (Lets look back at what foreman did to frazier.... exactly)

Joe Frazier II - KOd in 3 (Rocky hit harder and frazier had more of a paper face)

Joe Frazier III -KOd in 1 (are just picking rounds at random ??? )

Buster Mathis - UD (Ali knocked the dude down 4 times. you're gonna tell me the rock couldn't take him out?)

Ken Norton I - KOd in 3 (if he couldn't finish ali off with a broken jaw, he wasn't gonna finish the rock off either)

Ken Norton II - TKOd in 3 (no just no)

Ken Norton III - KOd in 2 (If an increasingly slower and slower ali could beat him, i rest my case)

George Foreman - Towel thrown in in 1 (foreman might pull this fight out but no way he's making one of the most dedicated fighters in the history of the sport quit)

Ron Lyle - KOd in 3 (You did watch this fight were a clearly shot slow moving ali ko'd him late in the fight ala marciano-walcott 1 right??)

Joe Bugner - UD (WHO ??? )

Jimmy Young - TKO in 6 (no comment i really don't know what to say this time)

Earnie Shavers - KO in 1 (He got knocked out in the first round by quarry and you're gonna say he dominates the rock? I don't care if you think he punches hard, his record and ko ratio are just as padded as don steele's)

Leon Spinks I - KO in 7 (marciano would wipe the floor with him)

Leon Spinks II - KO in 3 (He F****** lost to an ali that was so shot, Ali had no business fighting anymore but he did and he won. But he'd beat marciano yeah i bet you got this spinks in your top 10 heavyweight list  ::**)

Alfredo Evangelista - UD (WHO ??? )

Larry Holmes - KO in 5 (Holmes isn't koing anybody with a chin worth a damn. FACT.)

Trevor Berbick - KO in 5 (If marciano has parkinsons then yes but if not, no.)

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Yes lets he was much bigger than Frazier and his style was tailor made for Foreman and ?? that has got nothing to do with Marciano vs Rocky match up which the Rock would lose.


And as for Jimmy Young he was very slick and he took Foremans best in 7th round and Foreman hits harder than Rocky and still comeback and staggered Foreman Young could outslick and out point Rocky.

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

The bigger guy doesn't always win, but IMO Marciano's style put him at a huge disadvantage to guys who were much bigger like Foreman, Liston, and even Frazier.

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Well let us not forget that Rocky was the underdog in the majority of his fights.

Rocky has done EVERYTHING, he's won every way a fighter can win! Coming from behind, coming off the canvas, 1st round, decision, and so on and so forth.

Rocky is all heart and and I wouldn't count him out vs anyone