Re: Should Spinks be p4p? (hear me out here)
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Originally Posted by El Gamo
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Originally Posted by Majesty
wow this thread is getting some amazing responses. And really showing the knowledge we have around this boxing forum :)
Yeah but even if people don't think Spinks is P4P,it doesnt mean they have less knowledge. Bil made an excellent point,it was a narrow win over Mayorga,narrow over Karmazin who's best win was over an unfocussed Kassim Ouma and a "win" over Judah,when alot of people thought Judah won the first fight. Judah also KTFO Spinks in the second fight.
He has skills but lets not get overexcited just yet. He's fought decent fighters,but he hasn't won any of his big fights convincingly. No way P4P imo,not yet and may be not ever.
:coolclick: It's nothing you and I agree on something so lets cherish this moment :beerchug:
Re: Should Spinks be p4p? (hear me out here)
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Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
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Originally Posted by Bilbo
you'd have to put Oscar higher for emphatically destroying Mayorga. Plus Oscar has a better resume than Cory and came closer to beating Floyd than anyone in the past 3 years or so.
I'd say De La Hoya deserves to be higher than Cory.
Not at all........
Spinks beat a Prime Mayorga
Delahoya beat a "Ruined by Tito" Mayorga
Since 03 Delahoya is 2 wins-3 losses
Since 03 Spinks is 6 wins-1 loss won... Went to Piccirillo backyard in Italy and won the IBF Welterweight belt, Unified against the Unstopppable Mayorga and became Undisputed Linear Welterweight Champ....Also moved up to 154 and fought the dangerous Roman Karmazin and became IBF light middleweight Champ, Pretty good if you ask me... Like I said I'll put up Spinks resume against any of his contemporaries...
It's all too easy to say a fighter is 'ruined' after a big loss but you certainly can't say for certain that even a 'prime' (lmao) Mayorga would have posed a bigger challenge for De La Hoya. Oscar was just technically a far superior fighter and having a solid chin and the ability to handle sustained pressure (something Vernon Forrest seemed to not be able to handle) allowed him to bully and beat down the woefully inferior fighter in a few brutal rounds.
Likewise Oscar's losses came at higher weights to p4p greats. Losing to Mosely twice with the second fight most people seeing him the winner was certainly no worse than Spinks going 1-1 with the talented but notoriously underachieving Zab Judah.
And losing to all time great and then undisputed Bernard Hopkins is certainly no worse than should Cory get knocked out by Jermain Taylor, as and let's be honest here, is virtually gauranteed to happen.
I'm not disrespecting Spinks here at all, all I'm saying is that in a p4p top 20, where I think both these guys figure, I'd probably be favouring Oscar as being slightly above Cory.
Of course this can all change tomorrow, but personally I expect Spinks to be knocked out inside 8 rounds and then this won't even be a debate. Oscar will be above Spinks, probably around 12 or 13 p4p with Spinks being just in the top 20.
In fact if Spinks does get stopped by Taylor,
you could even argue that he would be below Kasim Ouma, but let's not go there just yet :P
Now I know your taking the piss... :alcoholic: and for argument sake, lets leave these Quote, Unquote questionable desicions out of the convo... A wins a win, thats whats shown in the column... And please you couldnt sit in front of me with a straight face and say Tito didnt ruin Mayorga, only to manipulate your argument :-\
Re: Should Spinks be p4p? (hear me out here)
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Originally Posted by JT Rock
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
you'd have to put Oscar higher for emphatically destroying Mayorga. Plus Oscar has a better resume than Cory and came closer to beating Floyd than anyone in the past 3 years or so.
I'd say De La Hoya deserves to be higher than Cory.
Not at all........
Spinks beat a Prime Mayorga
Delahoya beat a "Ruined by Tito" Mayorga
Since 03 Delahoya is 2 wins-3 losses
Since 03 Spinks is 6 wins-1 loss won... Went to Piccirillo backyard in Italy and won the IBF Welterweight belt, Unified against the Unstopppable Mayorga and became Undisputed Linear Welterweight Champ....Also moved up to 154 and fought the dangerous Roman Karmazin and became IBF light middleweight Champ, Pretty good if you ask me... Like I said I'll put up Spinks resume against any of his contemporaries...
It's all too easy to say a fighter is 'ruined' after a big loss but you certainly can't say for certain that even a 'prime' (lmao) Mayorga would have posed a bigger challenge for De La Hoya. Oscar was just technically a far superior fighter and having a solid chin and the ability to handle sustained pressure (something Vernon Forrest seemed to not be able to handle) allowed him to bully and beat down the woefully inferior fighter in a few brutal rounds.
Likewise Oscar's losses came at higher weights to p4p greats. Losing to Mosely twice with the second fight most people seeing him the winner was certainly no worse than Spinks going 1-1 with the talented but notoriously underachieving Zab Judah.
And losing to all time great and then undisputed Bernard Hopkins is certainly no worse than should Cory get knocked out by Jermain Taylor, as and let's be honest here, is virtually gauranteed to happen.
I'm not disrespecting Spinks here at all, all I'm saying is that in a p4p top 20, where I think both these guys figure, I'd probably be favouring Oscar as being slightly above Cory.
Of course this can all change tomorrow, but personally I expect Spinks to be knocked out inside 8 rounds and then this won't even be a debate. Oscar will be above Spinks, probably around 12 or 13 p4p with Spinks being just in the top 20.
In fact if Spinks does get stopped by Taylor,
you could even argue that he would be below Kasim Ouma, but let's not go there just yet :P
Now I know your taking the piss... :drunk: and for argument sake, lets leave these Quote, Unquote questionable desicions out of the convo... A wins a win, thats whats shown in the column... And please you couldnt sit in front of me with a straight face and say Tito didnt ruin Mayorga, only to manipulate your argument :-\
Actually I'm serious, if Spinks gets blown away by Taylor, considering Ouma's gutsy show against him you wouldn't rate him higher?
Re: Should Spinks be p4p? (hear me out here)
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Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
you'd have to put Oscar higher for emphatically destroying Mayorga. Plus Oscar has a better resume than Cory and came closer to beating Floyd than anyone in the past 3 years or so.
I'd say De La Hoya deserves to be higher than Cory.
Not at all........
Spinks beat a Prime Mayorga
Delahoya beat a "Ruined by Tito" Mayorga
Since 03 Delahoya is 2 wins-3 losses
Since 03 Spinks is 6 wins-1 loss won... Went to Piccirillo backyard in Italy and won the IBF Welterweight belt, Unified against the Unstopppable Mayorga and became Undisputed Linear Welterweight Champ....Also moved up to 154 and fought the dangerous Roman Karmazin and became IBF light middleweight Champ, Pretty good if you ask me... Like I said I'll put up Spinks resume against any of his contemporaries...
It's all too easy to say a fighter is 'ruined' after a big loss but you certainly can't say for certain that even a 'prime' (lmao) Mayorga would have posed a bigger challenge for De La Hoya. Oscar was just technically a far superior fighter and having a solid chin and the ability to handle sustained pressure (something Vernon Forrest seemed to not be able to handle) allowed him to bully and beat down the woefully inferior fighter in a few brutal rounds.
Likewise Oscar's losses came at higher weights to p4p greats. Losing to Mosely twice with the second fight most people seeing him the winner was certainly no worse than Spinks going 1-1 with the talented but notoriously underachieving Zab Judah.
And losing to all time great and then undisputed Bernard Hopkins is certainly no worse than should Cory get knocked out by Jermain Taylor, as and let's be honest here, is virtually gauranteed to happen.
I'm not disrespecting Spinks here at all, all I'm saying is that in a p4p top 20, where I think both these guys figure, I'd probably be favouring Oscar as being slightly above Cory.
Of course this can all change tomorrow, but personally I expect Spinks to be knocked out inside 8 rounds and then this won't even be a debate. Oscar will be above Spinks, probably around 12 or 13 p4p with Spinks being just in the top 20.
In fact if Spinks does get stopped by Taylor,
you could even argue that he would be below Kasim Ouma, but let's not go there just yet :P
Now I know your taking the piss... :drunk: and for argument sake, lets leave these Quote, Unquote questionable desicions out of the convo... A wins a win, thats whats shown in the column... And please you couldnt sit in front of me with a straight face and say Tito didnt ruin Mayorga, only to manipulate your argument :-\
Actually I'm serious, if Spinks gets blown away by Taylor, considering Ouma's gutsy show against him you wouldn't rate him higher?
Yeah but then Spinks would defend his title against Ouma at 154 and beat him handily and be right back above him :)
Re: Should Spinks be p4p? (hear me out here)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majesty
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
you'd have to put Oscar higher for emphatically destroying Mayorga. Plus Oscar has a better resume than Cory and came closer to beating Floyd than anyone in the past 3 years or so.
I'd say De La Hoya deserves to be higher than Cory.
Not at all........
Spinks beat a Prime Mayorga
Delahoya beat a "Ruined by Tito" Mayorga
Since 03 Delahoya is 2 wins-3 losses
Since 03 Spinks is 6 wins-1 loss won... Went to Piccirillo backyard in Italy and won the IBF Welterweight belt, Unified against the Unstopppable Mayorga and became Undisputed Linear Welterweight Champ....Also moved up to 154 and fought the dangerous Roman Karmazin and became IBF light middleweight Champ, Pretty good if you ask me... Like I said I'll put up Spinks resume against any of his contemporaries...
It's all too easy to say a fighter is 'ruined' after a big loss but you certainly can't say for certain that even a 'prime' (lmao) Mayorga would have posed a bigger challenge for De La Hoya. Oscar was just technically a far superior fighter and having a solid chin and the ability to handle sustained pressure (something Vernon Forrest seemed to not be able to handle) allowed him to bully and beat down the woefully inferior fighter in a few brutal rounds.
Likewise Oscar's losses came at higher weights to p4p greats. Losing to Mosely twice with the second fight most people seeing him the winner was certainly no worse than Spinks going 1-1 with the talented but notoriously underachieving Zab Judah.
And losing to all time great and then undisputed Bernard Hopkins is certainly no worse than should Cory get knocked out by Jermain Taylor, as and let's be honest here, is virtually gauranteed to happen.
I'm not disrespecting Spinks here at all, all I'm saying is that in a p4p top 20, where I think both these guys figure, I'd probably be favouring Oscar as being slightly above Cory.
Of course this can all change tomorrow, but personally I expect Spinks to be knocked out inside 8 rounds and then this won't even be a debate. Oscar will be above Spinks, probably around 12 or 13 p4p with Spinks being just in the top 20.
In fact if Spinks does get stopped by Taylor,
you could even argue that he would be below Kasim Ouma, but let's not go there just yet :P
Now I know your taking the piss... :drunk: and for argument sake, lets leave these Quote, Unquote questionable desicions out of the convo... A wins a win, thats whats shown in the column... And please you couldnt sit in front of me with a straight face and say Tito didnt ruin Mayorga, only to manipulate your argument :-\
Actually I'm serious, if Spinks gets blown away by Taylor, considering Ouma's gutsy show against him you wouldn't rate him higher?
Yeah but then Spinks would defend his title against Ouma at 154 and beat him handily and be right back above him :)
But then he'd face Karmazin again and if Roman won he'd be above them all.
Is it just me or this thread becoming like a game of Top Trumps ??? :P
Re: Should Spinks be p4p? (hear me out here)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majesty
wow this thread is getting some amazing responses. And really showing the knowledge we have around this boxing forum :)
Yeah but even if people don't think Spinks is P4P,it doesnt mean they have less knowledge. Bil made an excellent point,it was a narrow win over Mayorga,narrow over Karmazin who's best win was over an unfocussed Kassim Ouma and a "win" over Judah,when alot of people thought Judah won the first fight. Judah also KTFO Spinks in the second fight.
He has skills but lets not get overexcited just yet. He's fought decent fighters,but he hasn't won any of his big fights convincingly. No way P4P imo,not yet and may be not ever.
:coolclick: It's nothing you and I agree on something so lets cherish this moment :beerchug:
Already clicked you earlier! But totally agree,let us cherish this moment,hold it close to our hearts and never let it go. I'd favour Ouma v Spinks if he comes in 100%. Oumas activity levels would overwhelm Spinks and Spinks gasses.
And I'd like to see Spinks rematch Karmazin. Roman let that fight go rather than Spinks winning.
Re: Should Spinks be p4p? (hear me out here)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majesty
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
you'd have to put Oscar higher for emphatically destroying Mayorga. Plus Oscar has a better resume than Cory and came closer to beating Floyd than anyone in the past 3 years or so.
I'd say De La Hoya deserves to be higher than Cory.
Not at all........
Spinks beat a Prime Mayorga
Delahoya beat a "Ruined by Tito" Mayorga
Since 03 Delahoya is 2 wins-3 losses
Since 03 Spinks is 6 wins-1 loss won... Went to Piccirillo backyard in Italy and won the IBF Welterweight belt, Unified against the Unstopppable Mayorga and became Undisputed Linear Welterweight Champ....Also moved up to 154 and fought the dangerous Roman Karmazin and became IBF light middleweight Champ, Pretty good if you ask me... Like I said I'll put up Spinks resume against any of his contemporaries...
It's all too easy to say a fighter is 'ruined' after a big loss but you certainly can't say for certain that even a 'prime' (lmao) Mayorga would have posed a bigger challenge for De La Hoya. Oscar was just technically a far superior fighter and having a solid chin and the ability to handle sustained pressure (something Vernon Forrest seemed to not be able to handle) allowed him to bully and beat down the woefully inferior fighter in a few brutal rounds.
Likewise Oscar's losses came at higher weights to p4p greats. Losing to Mosely twice with the second fight most people seeing him the winner was certainly no worse than Spinks going 1-1 with the talented but notoriously underachieving Zab Judah.
And losing to all time great and then undisputed Bernard Hopkins is certainly no worse than should Cory get knocked out by Jermain Taylor, as and let's be honest here, is virtually gauranteed to happen.
I'm not disrespecting Spinks here at all, all I'm saying is that in a p4p top 20, where I think both these guys figure, I'd probably be favouring Oscar as being slightly above Cory.
Of course this can all change tomorrow, but personally I expect Spinks to be knocked out inside 8 rounds and then this won't even be a debate. Oscar will be above Spinks, probably around 12 or 13 p4p with Spinks being just in the top 20.
In fact if Spinks does get stopped by Taylor,
you could even argue that he would be below Kasim Ouma, but let's not go there just yet :P
Now I know your taking the piss... :drunk: and for argument sake, lets leave these Quote, Unquote questionable desicions out of the convo... A wins a win, thats whats shown in the column... And please you couldnt sit in front of me with a straight face and say Tito didnt ruin Mayorga, only to manipulate your argument :-\
Actually I'm serious, if Spinks gets blown away by Taylor, considering Ouma's gutsy show against him you wouldn't rate him higher?
Yeah but then Spinks would defend his title against Ouma at 154 and beat him handily and be right back above him :)
But then he'd face Karmazin again and if Roman won he'd be above them all.
Is it just me or this thread becoming like a game of Top Trumps ??? :P
Not really.
I'd rather see Karmazin and Simms fight. How about that?
Re: Should Spinks be p4p? (hear me out here)
Geezus this is a Spinks hate fest..... Tell you what Ouma hasnt done a gotdam thing in a few years thats remotely worth a mention
Re: Should Spinks be p4p? (hear me out here)
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
Geezus this is a Spinks hate fest..... Tell you what Ouma hasnt done a gotdam thing in a few years thats remotely worth a mention
Nah not at all, Cory is one of my favourite fighters.
I do believe that Oscar is above him in the p4p stakes based both on achievements, legacy and recent performances.
As for Ouma, right now Spinks is higher BUT if he gets blown out by Taylor considering Ouma's spirited showing against Taylor you wouldn't rate him higher?
Of course if Spinks does beat Taylor I would happily put him in the top 10 p4p, but I think there's more chance of Audrey Harrison unifying the heavyweight division than that happening quite frankly.
Re: Should Spinks be p4p? (hear me out here)
spinks a good boxer
he not 10 p4p
his popularity was rising alot then he lost to judah it went down
Re: Should Spinks be p4p? (hear me out here)
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Originally Posted by Lyle
......ummmm NO Corey Spinks is an ok fighter and that's about all of that
For once I'm with Captain America 100%.
Re: Should Spinks be p4p? (hear me out here)
Corey suffers from a bit of what Judah does....All the talent in the world but lacks mental make up....
When Corey comes in shape to fight he is as good as a fighter can get....Slick and knows how to frustrate a guy to his advantage,,,,But then he gets cocky and thinks he is unbeastable comes out of shape and off his game plan...Then loses....
It all depends on what version of Corey shows up......But the P4P ability is there
Re: Should Spinks be p4p? (hear me out here)
Spinks is p4p after this performance tonight. We all knew he wouldn't get the decision. But I don't think we expected a performance like that. I think he won honestly and for once me and wacko agree ;D Wasn't dominate but then again he wasn't supposed to be as competitive as he was.
Re: Should Spinks be p4p? (hear me out here)
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Originally Posted by Starr
Spinks is p4p after this performance tonight. We all knew he wouldn't get the decision. But I don't think we expected a performance like that. I think he won honestly and for once me and wacko agree ;D Wasn't dominate but then again he wasn't supposed to be as competitive as he was.
You're an idiot.
Re: Should Spinks be p4p? (hear me out here)
Still not P4P even if he won imo. He did edge closer though.
