Re: How highly would Mayweather be rated if he accomplishes the following feat?
If Floyd beats Mosley and then beats whoever comes out the winner of the Margo - Williams - Judah - Cotto mini tournament. His stock would definitely go up in the eyes of all that see him now. But when we talk about all time greatness he needs more. 20 to 30 years from now guys just won't know if these guys were that good.
Floyd is a great fighter. But the fact that he is so much better than the competition will hurt him. He just does not have that big name, that measuring stick. 20 or 30 years from now they will see DLH in his reccord but they will also see that DLH was passed his prime and even in his prime has loss in most of the big time fights he was in. They will not pay much attention to the fact that some of those losses were highly disputed.
I think the only thing that will give FLoyd a top 5 all time great status is longevity. The man is 30 but he is a very young 30. I can easily see him fighting a good 5 years without any severe loss in agility and reflexes. In five years he could have 8 to 10 fights easy.
Lets say 8
1. Spinks
2. Mosley
3. Winner of tournament (if not Judah)
4. Clottey
5. Pavlik (or current MW champ if other at this time)
6. Young hungry powerfull up and commer (Bassically any new undefeated feared fighter that gets people talking and saying, maybe he could beat Floyd)
7. Winky if he is still around (B-Hop might be way too old by this time)
8. Taylor if he is still undefeated and has not moved up over 168
Maybe if he draws another big name out of retirement in Tito and beats him, it would also be a huge win. No matter how much past it Tito is a W over him is big.
This would mean a win over big names of last era in DLH, Mosley and Tito. A win over this era's big names in Cotto or Margo, Pavlik and Taylor. A win over very game and tough contenders in Spinks and Clottey. A win against the future big name. And finally a win against a master class fighter in Winky.
There is no reason why he couldn't pull this off. He has the skill and determination to do it. And even if he looses one of these fights, the caliber of opposition is such that he will not lose his place among the all time greats. And if he succeeds in winning, considering that he would have to beat Taylor at 168 which would make him the only 7 division world champ in history, we would not be talking top 5 all time. We will be talking is he better that Ray Robinson?
Re: How highly would Mayweather be rated if he accomplishes the following feat?
Even if he did all that, I don't think most boxing historians would rank him ahead of SRR. And doing all of that is a TALL order. That's like saying, "if Klitshko beats Brewester in the rematch, then beats Peter, Vitali, Ivan Drago, Apollo Creed, lures Tyson out of retirement, and then fights MMA and beats Fedor, he'll be an ATG HW".
Re: How highly would Mayweather be rated if he accomplishes the following feat?
If he did all that he's 1-3 no problem
Re: How highly would Mayweather be rated if he accomplishes the following feat?
Nothing PBf ever does will be good enough...if he were to beat every top ten contender from 140 to 147 and unify all the belts in the process...they'd still say well the divisions are weak...in order to be great he has to lose..then when he loses they'll say the great champions don't lose to contenders....
maybe he should go to panama and beat up around 80 bums and pad his record then maybe he'll be in the top ten...it seemed to work for duran...
Re: How highly would Mayweather be rated if he accomplishes the following feat?
Who you beat and how you beat them count. If he coasts and outpoints any of the people on that list it doesn't count as much as if he beats them bloody and or stops them. Make their corner throw the towel in, etc....
That's how he gets to be an alltime great. Take a risk and actually fight a top fighter. Mosley would be perfect. Not just run and be content to win rounds, try to ko him. If he did that with ODH and won we wouldn't be having this ...."nothing PBF does is good enough" argument. He needs to take a risk and make the career defining fight.
Re: How highly would Mayweather be rated if he accomplishes the following feat?
Quote:
Originally Posted by luvfightgame
Who you beat and how you beat them count. If he coasts and outpoints any of the people on that list it doesn't count as much as if he beats them bloody and or stops them. Make their corner throw the towel in, etc....
That's how he gets to be an alltime great. Take a risk and actually fight a top fighter. Mosley would be perfect. Not just run and be content to win rounds, try to ko him. If he did that with ODH and won we wouldn't be having this ...."nothing PBF does is good enough" argument. He needs to take a risk and make the career defining fight.
so he's not an all time great because he minimizes the other guy's chances of winning. That's ridiculous.. I don't see how having a close, beat him up, knockdown bloodyt fight would make him great...
a top fighter? Corrales, castillo, weren't top? Oscar? Basically he should take a risk and try to beat them at their own fight...take a risk by giving the other guy more chances to ko him? he stopped corrales knocked him down five times too....stopped hernandez,chavez, and manfredy...
Re: How highly would Mayweather be rated if he accomplishes the following feat?
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rookie Fan
If Floyd beats Mosley and then beats whoever comes out the winner of the Margo - Williams - Judah - Cotto mini tournament. His stock would definitely go up in the eyes of all that see him now. But when we talk about all time greatness he needs more. 20 to 30 years from now guys just won't know if these guys were that good.
Floyd is a great fighter. But the fact that he is so much better than the competition will hurt him. He just does not have that big name, that measuring stick. 20 or 30 years from now they will see DLH in his reccord but they will also see that DLH was passed his prime and even in his prime has loss in most of the big time fights he was in. They will not pay much attention to the fact that some of those losses were highly disputed.
I think the only thing that will give FLoyd a top 5 all time great status is longevity. The man is 30 but he is a very young 30. I can easily see him fighting a good 5 years without any severe loss in agility and reflexes. In five years he could have 8 to 10 fights easy.
Lets say 8
1. Spinks
2. Mosley
3. Winner of tournament (if not Judah)
4. Clottey
5. Pavlik (or current MW champ if other at this time)
6. Young hungry powerfull up and commer (Bassically any new undefeated feared fighter that gets people talking and saying, maybe he could beat Floyd)
7. Winky if he is still around (B-Hop might be way too old by this time)
8. Taylor if he is still undefeated and has not moved up over 168
Maybe if he draws another big name out of retirement in Tito and beats him, it would also be a huge win. No matter how much past it Tito is a W over him is big.
This would mean a win over big names of last era in DLH, Mosley and Tito. A win over this era's big names in Cotto or Margo, Pavlik and Taylor. A win over very game and tough contenders in Spinks and Clottey. A win against the future big name. And finally a win against a master class fighter in Winky.
There is no reason why he couldn't pull this off. He has the skill and determination to do it. And even if he looses one of these fights, the caliber of opposition is such that he will not lose his place among the all time greats. And if he succeeds in winning, considering that he would have to beat Taylor at 168 which would make him the only 7 division world champ in history, we would not be talking top 5 all time. We will be talking is he better that Ray Robinson?
Thats a bit ridiculous but i suppose that is what it would take for people to get off floyd's back.
Re: How highly would Mayweather be rated if he accomplishes the following feat?
i could care less i personally like him more than leanord
Re: How highly would Mayweather be rated if he accomplishes the following feat?
It seems like a tall order to beat all those guys but the point is he needs to stick around and fight nothing but world class champions from here on for the next 5 years. It is not impossible for him to do this considering that he has not been in any wars and has rarely been hit clean in his entire career.
Most likely non of this will happen but if the question is what does he have to do to make the top 5 all time greats? well he has to do great things, extraordinary things. Things that make people think that there is no way he can do that, then do it.
Ali achieved greatness when he fought and beat the man who had destroyed the man who beat him. Whoever thaught that he would beat Forman at that time? Very few.
Leonard achived greatness by coming out of retirement and fighting the most dangerous man in the MW division. Nobody gave him much of a shot against Hagler. I guarantee you that if Leonard had not fought Hagler he would not be considered top 10 all time.
Some people try to achieve greatness but fail. For example, Tito wanted to go all the way up to 175 and challange Roy Jones. He knew this would be almost impossible. But he also knew that that is what it would take to achieve greatness. He failed, but imagine if he had won the MW tournament and then had beat Roy Jones. He would no doubt be considered top 10, maybe top 5 all time. Nobody would've even remembered how he was outboxed by Oscar.
Being an All Time Great is not about being the most skilled. It is about doing great things in that ring.
Re: How highly would Mayweather be rated if he accomplishes the following feat?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Punisher136
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rookie Fan
If Floyd beats Mosley and then beats whoever comes out the winner of the Margo - Williams - Judah - Cotto mini tournament. His stock would definitely go up in the eyes of all that see him now. But when we talk about all time greatness he needs more. 20 to 30 years from now guys just won't know if these guys were that good.
Floyd is a great fighter. But the fact that he is so much better than the competition will hurt him. He just does not have that big name, that measuring stick. 20 or 30 years from now they will see DLH in his reccord but they will also see that DLH was passed his prime and even in his prime has loss in most of the big time fights he was in. They will not pay much attention to the fact that some of those losses were highly disputed.
I think the only thing that will give FLoyd a top 5 all time great status is longevity. The man is 30 but he is a very young 30. I can easily see him fighting a good 5 years without any severe loss in agility and reflexes. In five years he could have 8 to 10 fights easy.
Lets say 8
1. Spinks
2. Mosley
3. Winner of tournament (if not Judah)
4. Clottey
5. Pavlik (or current MW champ if other at this time)
6. Young hungry powerfull up and commer (Bassically any new undefeated feared fighter that gets people talking and saying, maybe he could beat Floyd)
7. Winky if he is still around (B-Hop might be way too old by this time)
8. Taylor if he is still undefeated and has not moved up over 168
Maybe if he draws another big name out of retirement in Tito and beats him, it would also be a huge win. No matter how much past it Tito is a W over him is big.
This would mean a win over big names of last era in DLH, Mosley and Tito. A win over this era's big names in Cotto or Margo, Pavlik and Taylor. A win over very game and tough contenders in Spinks and Clottey. A win against the future big name. And finally a win against a master class fighter in Winky.
There is no reason why he couldn't pull this off. He has the skill and determination to do it. And even if he looses one of these fights, the caliber of opposition is such that he will not lose his place among the all time greats. And if he succeeds in winning, considering that he would have to beat Taylor at 168 which would make him the only 7 division world champ in history, we would not be talking top 5 all time. We will be talking is he better that Ray Robinson?
Thats a bit ridiculous but i suppose that is what it would take for people to get off floyd's back.
For the reccord. I am not stating what he should do so that I personally consider him ATG. I am stating my idea on the kind of feat that it would take for the generall public to consider him an ATG and for him to remain considered an ATG in the long years to come.
Re: How highly would Mayweather be rated if he accomplishes the following feat?
Quote:
Originally Posted by gudnite vienna
If he did all that he's 1-3 no problem
Did i read that right top 1 or 3 boxer of all time ???
Re: How highly would Mayweather be rated if he accomplishes the following feat?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by gudnite vienna
If he did all that he's 1-3 no problem
Did i read that right top 1 or 3 boxer of all time ???
it reads "IF " he did all that..
Re: How highly would Mayweather be rated if he accomplishes the following feat?
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rookie Fan
It seems like a tall order to beat all those guys but the point is he needs to stick around and fight nothing but world class champions from here on for the next 5 years. It is not impossible for him to do this considering that he has not been in any wars and has rarely been hit clean in his entire career.
Most likely non of this will happen but if the question is what does he have to do to make the top 5 all time greats? well he has to do great things, extraordinary things. Things that make people think that there is no way he can do that, then do it.
Ali achieved greatness when he fought and beat the man who had destroyed the man who beat him. Whoever thaught that he would beat Forman at that time? Very few.
Leonard achived greatness by coming out of retirement and fighting the most dangerous man in the MW division. Nobody gave him much of a shot against Hagler. I guarantee you that if Leonard had not fought Hagler he would not be considered top 10 all time.
Some people try to achieve greatness but fail. For example, Tito wanted to go all the way up to 175 and challange Roy Jones. He knew this would be almost impossible. But he also knew that that is what it would take to achieve greatness. He failed, but imagine if he had won the MW tournament and then had beat Roy Jones. He would no doubt be considered top 10, maybe top 5 all time. Nobody would've even remembered how he was outboxed by Oscar.
Being an All Time Great is not about being the most skilled. It is about doing great things in that ring.
:appl: :coolclick:
I agree. We are talking about all time great. Must do great things.
Re: How highly would Mayweather be rated if he accomplishes the following feat?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by gudnite vienna
If he did all that he's 1-3 no problem
Did i read that right top 1 or 3 boxer of all time ???
it reads "IF " he did all that..
Yes and he still wouldn't get number 1 or 3 beating an old Mosley or untested Margarito or Cotto.
Re: How highly would Mayweather be rated if he accomplishes the following feat?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
Quote:
Originally Posted by luvfightgame
Who you beat and how you beat them count. If he coasts and outpoints any of the people on that list it doesn't count as much as if he beats them bloody and or stops them. Make their corner throw the towel in, etc....
That's how he gets to be an alltime great. Take a risk and actually fight a top fighter. Mosley would be perfect. Not just run and be content to win rounds, try to ko him. If he did that with ODH and won we wouldn't be having this ...."nothing PBF does is good enough" argument. He needs to take a risk and make the career defining fight.
so he's not an all time great because he minimizes the other guy's chances of winning. That's ridiculous.. I don't see how having a close, beat him up, knockdown bloodyt fight would make him great...
a top fighter? Corrales, castillo, weren't top? Oscar? Basically he should take a risk and try to beat them at their own fight...take a risk by giving the other guy more chances to ko him? he stopped corrales knocked him down five times too....stopped hernandez,chavez, and manfredy...
I didn't say the fight has to be close. In some people's opinion the fight with ODH wasn't close. Some feel PBF easily outpointed him. If so, be great and take it a step further, go for the ko. Not suggesting that he give away his advantages. Don't trade, but you have to take risks if you are going to be great. Basically we are talking about greatness, not goodness. It's like a hero or a superhero. He needs to do something above and beyond. He had a great chance with ODH but he didn't go for it. His strategy was to win on points. Would have been great if he turned up the offense and went for a stoppage.
