Re: Please I beg you, quit comparing today's heavyweights to THIS guy....
Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetPea
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetPea
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just a Boxing Fan
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just a Boxing Fan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Punisher136
Clay-London
http://youtube.com/watch?v=jU2YPXghFkU
This is what the greatest looks like when he's firing on all cylinders. Notice the triple feint he uses to back him into a corner followed by a 10+ punch flurry. When someone can keep their hands at their side for an entire fight over the course of many fights and still make people afraid to hit them only using the fear of their speed, you can't compare them to anyone. ;)
Lennox Lewis or a Prime Wlad Klitschko would have killed him
You are kidding right ??
Ali had problems with boxers with a good jab, Look what larry Holmes done to him. Lennox & Wlad are much bigger and more skilled that Holmes or any other boxer he faced. They would bust Ali up and stop him. I don't see anything about this guy that makes him the greatest of all time. He was just a man with good boxing skills and a loud mouth, He sold himself...An to all you Ali fans from the past and now. YOU GUYS BOUGHT IT>
Wow.
When Ali fought Holmes, he was ten times more of a shot fighter than Holyfield is now. He was only a couple years away from showing the first signs of Parkinson's Disease.
Prime Ali would have run circles around Larry Holmes. And you know what? If you asked Larry Holmes if he could've beaten a prime Ali, he'd probably admit that he couldn't.
If you think Lennox or Wlad could've beaten prime Ali, you're out of your mind, no offense.
I totally disagree with this Ali would not run rings round Holmes and only reason Holmes says he would have no chance is because he is just being respectful just like Tyson said he would never stand a chance a prime Holmes.
Do you any specific reason why you believe this?
Because Ali in his prime was light years faster than Holmes....
And Ali was way faster than Doug Jones still struggled with him he was way faster than Cooper dropped and almost stopped by him he was well faster than Norton yet Nortons jab was giving Ali hell and Holmes is about twice as fast as all of the opponents i just mentioned.
Re: Please I beg you, quit comparing today's heavyweights to THIS guy....
Heres something i have noticed people are freaked out about size but you know what, lennox is a bigger man than foreman but you know what he wasnt stronger, without a doubt george would move lennox around the ring in their he was without a doubt a much stronge man, holyfield coud mov lennox around he didnt move georg epghysically at all. Also I love lennox but ali would literally make lennox look clumsy in their, holyfield at 36 made lennox lokk slow at times in the rematch what would ali have done????
Re: Please I beg you, quit comparing today's heavyweights to THIS guy....
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetPea
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetPea
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just a Boxing Fan
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just a Boxing Fan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Punisher136
Clay-London
http://youtube.com/watch?v=jU2YPXghFkU
This is what the greatest looks like when he's firing on all cylinders. Notice the triple feint he uses to back him into a corner followed by a 10+ punch flurry. When someone can keep their hands at their side for an entire fight over the course of many fights and still make people afraid to hit them only using the fear of their speed, you can't compare them to anyone. ;)
Lennox Lewis or a Prime Wlad Klitschko would have killed him
You are kidding right ??
Ali had problems with boxers with a good jab, Look what larry Holmes done to him. Lennox & Wlad are much bigger and more skilled that Holmes or any other boxer he faced. They would bust Ali up and stop him. I don't see anything about this guy that makes him the greatest of all time. He was just a man with good boxing skills and a loud mouth, He sold himself...An to all you Ali fans from the past and now. YOU GUYS BOUGHT IT>
Wow.
When Ali fought Holmes, he was ten times more of a shot fighter than Holyfield is now. He was only a couple years away from showing the first signs of Parkinson's Disease.
Prime Ali would have run circles around Larry Holmes. And you know what? If you asked Larry Holmes if he could've beaten a prime Ali, he'd probably admit that he couldn't.
If you think Lennox or Wlad could've beaten prime Ali, you're out of your mind, no offense.
I totally disagree with this Ali would not run rings round Holmes and only reason Holmes says he would have no chance is because he is just being respectful just like Tyson said he would never stand a chance a prime Holmes.
Do you any specific reason why you believe this?
Because Ali in his prime was light years faster than Holmes....
And Ali was way faster than Doug Jones still struggled with him he was way faster than Cooper dropped and almost stopped by him he was well faster than Norton yet Nortons jab was giving Ali hell and Holmes is about twice as fast as all of the opponents i just mentioned.
Ok, but none of these guys faced Ali in his true prime. Ali's prime is generally considered to begin with the Liston fights and end with his fight against Folley in '67.
Re: Please I beg you, quit comparing today's heavyweights to THIS guy....
No one...NO ONE...should use the Ali vs. Holmes fight as an example of Ali's perceived weaknesses. Ali was beyond shot at that point of his career. The Ali before the draft was as good a boxer and athlete the sport has ever seen. No disrespect to todays heavyweights...but Ali in his prime would have beat them all and made most of them look silly. While some heavyweights might be bigger and stronger in todays era...you can't hurt what you cannot hit. And Ali at his absolute prime was damn near unhittable...too much skill, speed, and smarts. Now...some people might dislike Ali as a person...because of his politics or brashness...but ultimately they are hating on the man for his persona rather than his ability. I just try and ignore such people. As they say...the proof is in the pudding.
Re: Please I beg you, quit comparing today's heavyweights to THIS guy....
I will say this once again.Ali NEVER fought someone like Wladimir or Lewis and viceversa so there is no reasonable argument one way or the other.Everthing is different from back then including the glove size which would make a big difference in KO% if todays heavyweights were still wearing the lighter gloves.Logic would say that a guy like Lewis, with his skill, size, and power would overwhelm Ali but logic doesn't always prove to be fact.Ali fought a couple of big guys but they were not on the same skill level as Wladimir or Lewis, they were in an era of smaller heavyweights which helped them to win as many fights as they did.If Lewis had fought in that era his record would have been even better, same with Wladimir.This is of course all speculation based off of all the fights I have seen of Ali's,Lewis's and Wladimir's.Nobody can say with certaintly like some are that Ali would easily beat these guys unless they actually fought.Anyone who says otherwise is just full of it.
Re: Please I beg you, quit comparing today's heavyweights to THIS guy....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klitschkofan
I will say this once again.Ali NEVER fought someone like Wladimir or Lewis and viceversa so there is no reasonable argument one way or the other.Everthing is different from back then including the glove size which would make a big difference in KO% if todays heavyweights were still wearing the lighter gloves.Logic would say that a guy like Lewis, with his skill, size, and power would overwhelm Ali but logic doesn't always prove to be fact.Ali fought a couple of big guys but they were not on the same skill level as Wladimir or Lewis, they were in an era of smaller heavyweights which helped them to win as many fights as they did.If Lewis had fought in that era his record would have been even better, same with Wladimir.This is of course all speculation based off of all the fights I have seen of Ali's,Lewis's and Wladimir's.Nobody can say with certaintly like some are that Ali would easily beat these guys unless they actually fought.Anyone who says otherwise is just full of it.
If Wlad and Lewis would dominate smaller heavyweights because of their size, then why did Wlad get his ass kicked by Corrie Sanders, who was not a big heavyweight... and Lennox got knocked cold by Hasim Rahman, who's not a particularly big heavyweight. Lennox also couldn't even knockdown an old Evander Holyfield in 24 rounds. Holyfield weighed about the same as Ali and was much slower and less skilled.
Re: Please I beg you, quit comparing today's heavyweights to THIS guy....
Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetPea
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klitschkofan
I will say this once again.Ali NEVER fought someone like Wladimir or Lewis and viceversa so there is no reasonable argument one way or the other.Everthing is different from back then including the glove size which would make a big difference in KO% if todays heavyweights were still wearing the lighter gloves.Logic would say that a guy like Lewis, with his skill, size, and power would overwhelm Ali but logic doesn't always prove to be fact.Ali fought a couple of big guys but they were not on the same skill level as Wladimir or Lewis, they were in an era of smaller heavyweights which helped them to win as many fights as they did.If Lewis had fought in that era his record would have been even better, same with Wladimir.This is of course all speculation based off of all the fights I have seen of Ali's,Lewis's and Wladimir's.Nobody can say with certaintly like some are that Ali would easily beat these guys unless they actually fought.Anyone who says otherwise is just full of it.
If Wlad and Lewis would dominate smaller heavyweights because of their size, then why did Wlad get his a** kicked by Corrie Sanders, who was not a big heavyweight... and Lennox got knocked cold by Hasim Rahman, who's not a particularly big heavyweight. Lennox also couldn't even knockdown an old Evander Holyfield in 24 rounds. Holyfield weighed about the same as Ali and was much slower and less skilled.
Corrie Sanders is 6'4" and is 230lbs!TYhat is not small.I am talking about the guys Ali faced in more than 75% of his fights, guys in the range of 185 to 215 lbs.And Holyfield had one of the best chins in history!I don't know how you can say since Lewis never knocked down Holyfield he wouldn't be able to beat Ali?They didn't fight the same at all.Styles make fights.
Re: Please I beg you, quit comparing today's heavyweights to THIS guy....
Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetPea
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klitschkofan
I will say this once again.Ali NEVER fought someone like Wladimir or Lewis and viceversa so there is no reasonable argument one way or the other.Everthing is different from back then including the glove size which would make a big difference in KO% if todays heavyweights were still wearing the lighter gloves.Logic would say that a guy like Lewis, with his skill, size, and power would overwhelm Ali but logic doesn't always prove to be fact.Ali fought a couple of big guys but they were not on the same skill level as Wladimir or Lewis, they were in an era of smaller heavyweights which helped them to win as many fights as they did.If Lewis had fought in that era his record would have been even better, same with Wladimir.This is of course all speculation based off of all the fights I have seen of Ali's,Lewis's and Wladimir's.Nobody can say with certaintly like some are that Ali would easily beat these guys unless they actually fought.Anyone who says otherwise is just full of it.
If Wlad and Lewis would dominate smaller heavyweights because of their size, then why did Wlad get his a** kicked by Corrie Sanders, who was not a big heavyweight... and Lennox got knocked cold by Hasim Rahman, who's not a particularly big heavyweight. Lennox also couldn't even knockdown an old Evander Holyfield in 24 rounds. Holyfield weighed about the same as Ali and was much slower and less skilled.
Exactly!! Thank You. How anyone can say Wladimir or Lennox had the same skill level as Ali is beyong me. It's such a ridiculous statement that it almost doesn't deserve a response. This is without a doubt the weakest era for heavyweight fighters. Again...when someone has a screen name of "Klitschkofan" i don't expect an unbiased analysis. Get real people....support your favorite fighters...but stop making idiotic claims.
Re: Please I beg you, quit comparing today's heavyweights to THIS guy....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klitschkofan
Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetPea
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klitschkofan
I will say this once again.Ali NEVER fought someone like Wladimir or Lewis and viceversa so there is no reasonable argument one way or the other.Everthing is different from back then including the glove size which would make a big difference in KO% if todays heavyweights were still wearing the lighter gloves.Logic would say that a guy like Lewis, with his skill, size, and power would overwhelm Ali but logic doesn't always prove to be fact.Ali fought a couple of big guys but they were not on the same skill level as Wladimir or Lewis, they were in an era of smaller heavyweights which helped them to win as many fights as they did.If Lewis had fought in that era his record would have been even better, same with Wladimir.This is of course all speculation based off of all the fights I have seen of Ali's,Lewis's and Wladimir's.Nobody can say with certaintly like some are that Ali would easily beat these guys unless they actually fought.Anyone who says otherwise is just full of it.
If Wlad and Lewis would dominate smaller heavyweights because of their size, then why did Wlad get his a** kicked by Corrie Sanders, who was not a big heavyweight... and Lennox got knocked cold by Hasim Rahman, who's not a particularly big heavyweight. Lennox also couldn't even knockdown an old Evander Holyfield in 24 rounds. Holyfield weighed about the same as Ali and was much slower and less skilled.
Corrie Sanders is 6'4" and is 230lbs!TYhat is not small.I am talking about the guys Ali faced in more than 75% of his fights, guys in the range of 185 to 215 lbs.And Holyfield had one of the best chins in history!I don't know how you can say since Lewis never knocked down Holyfield he wouldn't be able to beat Ali?They didn't fight the same at all.Styles make fights.
Wow. So you are you saying the weight of the fighters Ali faced vs. the weight of the fighters Klitschko faces....is a measuring stick of their greatness?!!! Your boy got demolished by a slow journeyman fighter in Sanders...i don't care if he weighed 185 pounds or 300 pounds. And while we are talking about chins...Ali withstood the best Liston, Frazier, Shavers, and Foreman threw at him....but he would be minced meat against the all mighty Klitchkos's?!!! Yor favorite fighter NEVER has come close to fighting someone with the speed or skill of an Ali. But according to your ridiculous logic....Klitchco weighs more....so hey....he would have handled Ali....or as you state.....the "smaller fighters" Ali fought like for example Foreman?! Or wait....Goerge was "one of the few" big guys Ali fought...but he wasn't as "skilled" as Klitscho?!! Foreman would have knocked out Klitchko into retirement. Ali would have tortured him for 12 rounds using his face for target practice and making him look like a slow stiff. Take your blinders off. Your boy just beat LAMON BREWSTER for god's sake...that should make you happy...not delusional.
Re: Please I beg you, quit comparing today's heavyweights to THIS guy....
Quote:
Originally Posted by zhubin
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klitschkofan
Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetPea
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klitschkofan
I will say this once again.Ali NEVER fought someone like Wladimir or Lewis and viceversa so there is no reasonable argument one way or the other.Everthing is different from back then including the glove size which would make a big difference in KO% if todays heavyweights were still wearing the lighter gloves.Logic would say that a guy like Lewis, with his skill, size, and power would overwhelm Ali but logic doesn't always prove to be fact.Ali fought a couple of big guys but they were not on the same skill level as Wladimir or Lewis, they were in an era of smaller heavyweights which helped them to win as many fights as they did.If Lewis had fought in that era his record would have been even better, same with Wladimir.This is of course all speculation based off of all the fights I have seen of Ali's,Lewis's and Wladimir's.Nobody can say with certaintly like some are that Ali would easily beat these guys unless they actually fought.Anyone who says otherwise is just full of it.
If Wlad and Lewis would dominate smaller heavyweights because of their size, then why did Wlad get his a** kicked by Corrie Sanders, who was not a big heavyweight... and Lennox got knocked cold by Hasim Rahman, who's not a particularly big heavyweight. Lennox also couldn't even knockdown an old Evander Holyfield in 24 rounds. Holyfield weighed about the same as Ali and was much slower and less skilled.
Corrie Sanders is 6'4" and is 230lbs!TYhat is not small.I am talking about the guys Ali faced in more than 75% of his fights, guys in the range of 185 to 215 lbs.And Holyfield had one of the best chins in history!I don't know how you can say since Lewis never knocked down Holyfield he wouldn't be able to beat Ali?They didn't fight the same at all.Styles make fights.
Wow. So you are you saying the weight of the fighters Ali faced vs. the weight of the fighters Klitschko faces....is a measuring stick of their greatness?!!! Your boy got demolished by a slow journeyman fighter in Sanders...i don't care if he weighed 185 pounds or 300 pounds. And while we are talking about chins...Ali withstood the best Liston, Frazier, Shavers, and Foreman threw at him....but he would be minced meat against the all mighty Klitchkos's?!!! Yor favorite fighter NEVER has come close to fighting someone with the speed or skill of an Ali. But according to your ridiculous logic....Klitchco weighs more....so hey....he would have handled Ali....or as you state.....the "smaller fighters" Ali fought like for example Foreman?! Or wait....Goerge was "one of the few" big guys Ali fought...but he wasn't as "skilled" as Klitscho?!! Foreman would have knocked out Klitchko into retirement. Ali would have tortured him for 12 rounds using his face for target practice and making him look like a slow stiff. Take your blinders off. Your boy just beat LAMON BREWSTER for god's sake...that should make you happy...not delusional.
Well I don't want to argue with someone who doesn't understand my points.Yea I forgot Ali never had a bad night, he did lose 5 fights didn't he?Yea so what if Wladimir was beat by a lesser fighter, where is Sanders now?Wladimir proved he is the best and is now on top.If you have seen the way Foreman fought you wouldn't say he had more skills, he threw very wide slow shots, that is a fact, he was also 30lbs lighter than Wladimir.There was nobody like Foreman when he was fighting, he was big and intimidating to the guys he faced because they had never seen anyone like it before.And you can't tell me that size and strength doesn't play into boxing, of course it does and when you combine that with skills, brains and a great trainer you have a very good fighter.I am not the one with blinders on, look in the mirror if you can take yourself away from the past and look at the present for a change.
Re: Please I beg you, quit comparing today's heavyweights to THIS guy....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Punisher136
Clay-London
http://youtube.com/watch?v=jU2YPXghFkU
This is what the greatest looks like when he's firing on all cylinders. Notice the triple feint he uses to back him into a corner followed by a 10+ punch flurry. When someone can keep their hands at their side for an entire fight over the course of many fights and still make people afraid to hit them only using the fear of their speed, you can't compare them to anyone. ;)
Yea he looked pretty good against a guy who was 35-13, I would hope he would.Wladimir would have ko'd a 201lb guy in about 20 seconds, no disrespect to Ali.
Re: Please I beg you, quit comparing today's heavyweights to THIS guy....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klitschkofan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Punisher136
Clay-London
http://youtube.com/watch?v=jU2YPXghFkU
This is what the greatest looks like when he's firing on all cylinders. Notice the triple feint he uses to back him into a corner followed by a 10+ punch flurry. When someone can keep their hands at their side for an entire fight over the course of many fights and still make people afraid to hit them only using the fear of their speed, you can't compare them to anyone. ;)
Yea he looked pretty good against a guy who was
35-13, I would hope he would.Wladimir would have ko'd a 201lb guy in about
20 seconds, no disrespect to Ali.
Purrity doesn't have more wins than losses and wlad was heading to the score cards if he hadn't gassed out. You were saying? ;D Oh wait thats my bad, the purrity lose happened when wlad was 22 so it doesn't count because he was inexperienced. ::** Ali was the heavyweight champion of the world (back when it was one belt so i guess that made him the undisputed champion) at age 22. Ali never got tired. Wlad could hold his own for 5 rounds but trust me when your opponent actually has stamina, a great chin, incredible speed, and significant power, you're gonna lose.
Accept it. That Ali would embarass anyone. If you tryed to trade with him, he's faster than you and he has a better chin. Read the bold until it sinks in how ridiculous you are saying wlad could beat ali. Lewis would put up a good fight but he believed in his own ability too much and that costed him the first rahman fight. If lewis didn't put on a near perfect perfomance, he'd be stopped.
Lewis is an ATG and would put up a great fight but ali was faster and even if you did hit him, it wasn't enough to stop him. Lewis was stopped before, twice infact. Ali's only "ko" loss is when his corner stepped in and stopped it for him and that was in the 80's when ali had no business fighting anyway. As sad as ali's carer ended, none of his fans ever had to witness him be stopped.
Wlad gassed out against purrity. How do you think he could possibly hang with a guy that could only be defeated by decision? Wlad wouldn't last 12 rounds with Ali. Wlad could catch him and knock him down and that would get him some points, but did you ever see what happened when Ali got up after being knocked down? He fights even better. You can say all you want about his "bad" style, he made it work and he beat opponents far superior to those that wlad has faced. The journeymen back then would beat the journeymen now. The division was just on a whole different level and he dominated it past his prime.
Re: Please I beg you, quit comparing today's heavyweights to THIS guy....
I'd like to use this time to thank all the die hard wlad fans for the sc's. :P
Watch the pre 1970 fights. Thats the prime ali which is the one we're talking about. Saying he's not the greatest heavyweight of all time is a joke. Yeah he has 5 losses as one wlad fan pointed out but did it occur to you that 3 of those were in his last 4 fights and he actually avanged one of them while he should've been retired because he already had brain damage?
Like i said before, 36-4 in title fights. You might not consider the NABF belt a legitimate title now but i ask you: Does the belt legitimize the fighter, or does the fighter legitimize the belt? If ali had it and put it on the line, it was a legit title.
Re: Please I beg you, quit comparing today's heavyweights to THIS guy....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Punisher136
I'd like to use this time to thank all the die hard wlad fans for the sc's. :P
Watch the pre 1970 fights. Thats the prime ali which is the one we're talking about. Saying he's not the greatest heavyweight of all time is a joke. Yeah he has 5 losses as one wlad fan pointed out but did it occur to you that 3 of those were in his last 4 fights and he actually avanged one of them while he should've been retired because he already had brain damage?
Like i said before, 36-4 in title fights. You might not consider the NABF belt a legitimate title now but i ask you: Does the belt legitimize the fighter, or does the fighter legitimize the belt? If ali had it and put it on the line, it was a legit title.
Well Said!!
Re: Please I beg you, quit comparing today's heavyweights to THIS guy....
Quote:
Originally Posted by NotGuilty136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klitschkofan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Punisher136
Clay-London
http://youtube.com/watch?v=jU2YPXghFkU
This is what the greatest looks like when he's firing on all cylinders. Notice the triple feint he uses to back him into a corner followed by a 10+ punch flurry. When someone can keep their hands at their side for an entire fight over the course of many fights and still make people afraid to hit them only using the fear of their speed, you can't compare them to anyone. ;)
Yea he looked pretty good against a guy who was
35-13, I would hope he would.Wladimir would have ko'd a 201lb guy in about
20 seconds, no disrespect to Ali.
Purrity doesn't have more wins than losses and wlad was heading to the score cards if he hadn't gassed out. You were saying? ;D Oh wait thats my bad, the purrity lose happened when wlad was 22 so it doesn't count because he was inexperienced. ::** Ali was the heavyweight champion of the world (back when it was one belt so i guess that made him the undisputed champion) at age 22. Ali never got tired. Wlad could hold his own for 5 rounds but trust me when your opponent actually has stamina, a great chin, incredible speed, and significant power, you're gonna lose.
Accept it. That Ali would embarass anyone. If you tryed to trade with him, he's faster than you and he has a better chin. Read the bold until it sinks in how ridiculous you are saying wlad could beat ali. Lewis would put up a good fight but he believed in his own ability too much and that costed him the first rahman fight. If lewis didn't put on a near perfect perfomance, he'd be stopped.
Lewis is an ATG and would put up a great fight but ali was faster and even if you did hit him, it wasn't enough to stop him. Lewis was stopped before, twice infact. Ali's only "ko" loss is when his corner stepped in and stopped it for him and that was in the 80's when ali had no business fighting anyway. As sad as ali's carer ended, none of his fans ever had to witness him be stopped.
Wlad gassed out against purrity. How do you think he could possibly hang with a guy that could only be defeated by decision? Wlad wouldn't last 12 rounds with Ali. Wlad could catch him and knock him down and that would get him some points, but did you ever see what happened when Ali got up after being knocked down? He fights even better. You can say all you want about his "bad" style, he made it work and he beat opponents far superior to those that wlad has faced. The journeymen back then would beat the journeymen now. The division was just on a whole different level and he dominated it
past his prime.
I forgot Ali was a God, he could never be beaten.It is like talking to a brick wall. :banghead:
It boggles the mind that people can be so sure on a subject like this where there is no way of proving that Ali would beat Wladimir!So me saying Wladimir would beat Ali has the same credibility.Face it all of the current athletes today are superior to those from back in the day.I will say this agian, if Wladimir was fed a steady diet of guys that weighed 200lbs he would be knocking them all out and not going 15 rounds with them.
