Re: Barrera: Marquez...After reflection who do you think won?
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Originally Posted by Julius Rain
JMM WON, the knock down should of counted but it doesn't change the outcome. JMM STILL WON!!!!!!!
jmm made the fight, he caught mab more and more often. MAB didn't do more to deserve the win. JMM took it and JMM deserved it, end of story.
CC bro,says it all really,especially the highlighted part.JMM took majority of control as the fight wore on,backing MAB up,landing,hooks,combinations,right hands,especially in the last few rounds.
Re: Barrera: Marquez...After reflection who do you think won?
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Originally Posted by El Gamo
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Originally Posted by Julius Rain
JMM WON, the knock down should of counted but it doesn't change the outcome. JMM STILL WON!!!!!!!
jmm made the fight, he caught mab more and more often. MAB didn't do more to deserve the win. JMM took it and JMM deserved it, end of story.
CC bro,says it all really,especially the highlighted part.JMM took majority of control as the fight wore on,backing MAB up,landing,hooks,combinations,right hands,especially in the last few rounds.
I saw Barrera clearly winning the first 3 and the 6th. Then 7 and 8 were extremely convincing too. Marquez did come on with a couple of big rounds in the second half (I think the 7th and 10th) but I find it hard to consider that Marquez won the majority of the rounds as a whole. He had the most dominant rounds but having more dominant rounds doesnt mean more than Barrera winning less dominant rounds on the cards. This only affects the perceptions of those who really are not scoring a fight as it should be scored.
Re: Barrera: Marquez...After reflection who do you think won?
Well when there are rounds MAB lands jabs,and JMM lands power punches,why would I give the round to MAB? Cleaner harder punching is the criteria. Power punching fulfills that criteria moreso than jabs. JMM won clearly,the record books show,press row had him winning and Saddoneans have him winning. I have nothing else to say,
Re: Barrera: Marquez...After reflection who do you think won?
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Originally Posted by El Gamo
Well when there are rounds MAB lands jabs,and JMM lands power punches,why would I give the round to MAB? Cleaner harder punching is the criteria. Power punching fulfills that criteria moreso than jabs. JMM won clearly,the record books show,press row had him winning and Saddoneans have him winning. I have nothing else to say,
In rounds where Barrera lands nothing more than jabs and Marquez lands a significant number of power shots then clearly those rounds will be scored for Marquez. The fight was a tale of 2 halves Barrrera was leading the fight at the half way point and Marquez did come into the fight more in the seconds half. Marquez dominated the rounds that he won and Barrera did his work by looking busier than Marquez in the rounds that he won.
Im not disputing that JMM won. I know this and accept this. But for me this is a fight like the first Hopkins: Taylor fight. Or even the Barrera: Morales fights. A case can be made that either fighter won depending upon how you score the fight. Debate will not change the result. But a bit of debate is all im seeking here.
Its fine with me if a majority of people think Marquez won but I would like to hear their opinions too and perhaps know how they scored the individual rounds of the fight. So far nobody has been able to go as far as doing that though.
My opinion isnt set in stone, it can be altered by a convincing argument. But so far noone has broken down for me how Barrera lost the fight. Especially not as far as by a possible 4 point margin! :o
Re: Barrera: Marquez...After reflection who do you think won?
Wow, I've never really discussed this fight much, I guess I was not around here at the time. I thought Marquez won it clearly. I've only seen it once, I don't remember how I scored each exact round but I'm Miles I'm surprised you had Barrera winning the 11th and having the 12th a draw. I clearly thought he swept the last three, I remember that for sure. I thought JMM was getting more dominant as the fight went on, especially those last three.
As for why I scored the fight the way I did, I thought it was clear who was doing damage, and that was JMM. MAB worked the jab pretty well and did pretty well early (again I can't remember round for round, I may download it actually and watch it again just to see if maybe I was wrong slightly but honestly I can't see how my card would change that much. That and I'd have to sit through Lampley verbally massaging Barrera's genitals for another 12 rounds.) But I thought JMM was slicker, seemed more accurate with power punches, landed the far better punches, and when they exchanged I thought he got the best almost every time. I tend to side with effective damaging punching more in scoring a fight though so maybe that's why I thought it was so clear.
Re: Barrera: Marquez...After reflection who do you think won?
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Originally Posted by OumaFan
Wow, I've never really discussed this fight much, I guess I was not around here at the time. I thought Marquez won it clearly. I've only seen it once, I don't remember how I scored each exact round but I'm Miles I'm surprised you had Barrera winning the 11th and having the 12th a draw. I clearly thought he swept the last three, I remember that for sure. I thought JMM was getting more dominant as the fight went on, especially those last three.
As for why I scored the fight the way I did, I thought it was clear who was doing damage, and that was JMM. MAB worked the jab pretty well and did pretty well early (again I can't remember round for round, I may download it actually and watch it again just to see if maybe I was wrong slightly but honestly I can't see how my card would change that much. That and I'd have to sit through Lampley verbally massaging Barrera's genitals for another 12 rounds.) But I thought JMM was slicker, seemed more accurate with power punches, landed the far better punches, and when they exchanged I thought he got the best almost every time. I tend to side with effective damaging punching more in scoring a fight though so maybe that's why I thought it was so clear.
Fair points. :coolclick:, for bringing up specific rounds that I should re-evaluate.
I do still think that Barrera won the 11th. He controlled the majority of the round with his jab. Marquez landed some nice blows but for much of the round was ineffective. I conceded earlier in the thread that the even rounds were possibly Marquez rounds. I think those were the 5th and 12th. Barrera does indeed have his moments in the 12th also though.
An awkward fight to score and thats the main reason why I wanted it discussed.
Re: Barrera: Marquez...After reflection who do you think won?
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Originally Posted by Julius Rain
JMM WON, the knock down should of counted but it doesn't change the outcome. JMM STILL WON!!!!!!!
jmm made the fight, he caught mab more and more often. MAB didn't do more to deserve the win. JMM took it and JMM deserved it, end of story.
What you just said there you have not explained why JMM should of won considering Barrera did land more punches overall.
Re: Barrera: Marquez...After reflection who do you think won?
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Originally Posted by miles
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Originally Posted by OumaFan
Wow, I've never really discussed this fight much, I guess I was not around here at the time. I thought Marquez won it clearly. I've only seen it once, I don't remember how I scored each exact round but I'm Miles I'm surprised you had Barrera winning the 11th and having the 12th a draw. I clearly thought he swept the last three, I remember that for sure. I thought JMM was getting more dominant as the fight went on, especially those last three.
As for why I scored the fight the way I did, I thought it was clear who was doing damage, and that was JMM. MAB worked the jab pretty well and did pretty well early (again I can't remember round for round, I may download it actually and watch it again just to see if maybe I was wrong slightly but honestly I can't see how my card would change that much. That and I'd have to sit through Lampley verbally massaging Barrera's genitals for another 12 rounds.) But I thought JMM was slicker, seemed more accurate with power punches, landed the far better punches, and when they exchanged I thought he got the best almost every time. I tend to side with effective damaging punching more in scoring a fight though so maybe that's why I thought it was so clear.
Fair points. :coolclick:, for bringing up specific rounds that I should re-evaluate.
I do still think that Barrera won the 11th. He controlled the majority of the round with his jab. Marquez landed some nice blows but for much of the round was ineffective. I conceded earlier in the thread that the even rounds were possibly Marquez rounds. I think those were the 5th and 12th. Barrera does indeed have his moments in the 12th also though.
An awkward fight to score and thats the main reason why I wanted it discussed.
CC. I thought JMM won it fairly clearly but I've only seen it once.
I'm going to download it and watch it again with the sound off.
I mean I've been a big Barrera fan for a while but I almost started rooting for JMM during the fight because of HBO's commentary. It was that bad, Lampley was crediting Barrera for landing punches that he never threw. Just think if Lampley loved Winky like he does Barrera, Winky could just stay in his shell, throw no punches, and win a UD on Lampley's scorecard. I actually am going to watch it again with no sound, to see if maybe I gave JMM too much of the benefit of the doubt because I was so disgusted by Lampley. If that makes any sense at all. ??? Cause I was shocked to see people thought Barrera won actually, I guess I was really out of the loop around the time of this fight and I didn't see what people on here thought about it.
Re: Barrera: Marquez...After reflection who do you think won?
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Originally Posted by Julius Rain
JMM WON, the knock down should of counted but it doesn't change the outcome. JMM STILL WON!!!!!!!
jmm made the fight, he caught mab more and more often. MAB didn't do more to deserve the win. JMM took it and JMM deserved it, end of story.
And Also what do you mean Barrera didn't do more to deserve to win ?? Barrera fought his heart out threw more and landed more.
Re: Barrera: Marquez...After reflection who do you think won?
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Originally Posted by OumaFan
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Originally Posted by miles
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Originally Posted by OumaFan
Wow, I've never really discussed this fight much, I guess I was not around here at the time. I thought Marquez won it clearly. I've only seen it once, I don't remember how I scored each exact round but I'm Miles I'm surprised you had Barrera winning the 11th and having the 12th a draw. I clearly thought he swept the last three, I remember that for sure. I thought JMM was getting more dominant as the fight went on, especially those last three.
As for why I scored the fight the way I did, I thought it was clear who was doing damage, and that was JMM. MAB worked the jab pretty well and did pretty well early (again I can't remember round for round, I may download it actually and watch it again just to see if maybe I was wrong slightly but honestly I can't see how my card would change that much. That and I'd have to sit through Lampley verbally massaging Barrera's genitals for another 12 rounds.) But I thought JMM was slicker, seemed more accurate with power punches, landed the far better punches, and when they exchanged I thought he got the best almost every time. I tend to side with effective damaging punching more in scoring a fight though so maybe that's why I thought it was so clear.
Fair points. :coolclick:, for bringing up specific rounds that I should re-evaluate.
I do still think that Barrera won the 11th. He controlled the majority of the round with his jab. Marquez landed some nice blows but for much of the round was ineffective. I conceded earlier in the thread that the even rounds were possibly Marquez rounds. I think those were the 5th and 12th. Barrera does indeed have his moments in the 12th also though.
An awkward fight to score and thats the main reason why I wanted it discussed.
CC. I thought JMM won it fairly clearly but I've only seen it once.
I'm going to download it and watch it again with the sound off.
I mean I've been a big Barrera fan for a while but I almost started rooting for JMM during the fight because of HBO's commentary. It was that bad, Lampley was crediting Barrera for landing punches that he never threw. Just think if Lampley loved Winky like he does Barrera, Winky could just stay in his shell, throw no punches, and win a UD on Lampley's scorecard. I actually am going to watch it again with no sound, to see if maybe I gave JMM too much of the benefit of the doubt because I was so disgusted by Lampley. If that makes any sense at all. ??? Cause I was shocked to see people thought Barrera won actually, I guess I was really out of the loop around the time of this fight and I didn't see what people on here thought about it.
I initially watched it on the Korean networks so I had no need to worry about bias. I had Barrera edging it by a point or two. I recently decided to reevaluate and watch it again and I did score it Barrera by 3 points. I watched it again. The two rounds I gave as even are the only rounds that are not clear but must be scored to someone and so I do see how the edge might go to Marquez in those. Especially the 5th.
Marquez had 2 huge rounds in the fight and that does seem to have sewn most of the opinions on this fight. But if you take it on a round by round basis, I find it incredibly hard to make a case for JMM winning. A dominant round is still equal to a round won in a less domineering fashion.
Re: Barrera: Marquez...After reflection who do you think won?
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Originally Posted by miles
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Originally Posted by OumaFan
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Originally Posted by miles
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Originally Posted by OumaFan
Wow, I've never really discussed this fight much, I guess I was not around here at the time. I thought Marquez won it clearly. I've only seen it once, I don't remember how I scored each exact round but I'm Miles I'm surprised you had Barrera winning the 11th and having the 12th a draw. I clearly thought he swept the last three, I remember that for sure. I thought JMM was getting more dominant as the fight went on, especially those last three.
As for why I scored the fight the way I did, I thought it was clear who was doing damage, and that was JMM. MAB worked the jab pretty well and did pretty well early (again I can't remember round for round, I may download it actually and watch it again just to see if maybe I was wrong slightly but honestly I can't see how my card would change that much. That and I'd have to sit through Lampley verbally massaging Barrera's genitals for another 12 rounds.) But I thought JMM was slicker, seemed more accurate with power punches, landed the far better punches, and when they exchanged I thought he got the best almost every time. I tend to side with effective damaging punching more in scoring a fight though so maybe that's why I thought it was so clear.
Fair points. :coolclick:, for bringing up specific rounds that I should re-evaluate.
I do still think that Barrera won the 11th. He controlled the majority of the round with his jab. Marquez landed some nice blows but for much of the round was ineffective. I conceded earlier in the thread that the even rounds were possibly Marquez rounds. I think those were the 5th and 12th. Barrera does indeed have his moments in the 12th also though.
An awkward fight to score and thats the main reason why I wanted it discussed.
CC. I thought JMM won it fairly clearly but I've only seen it once.
I'm going to download it and watch it again with the sound off.
I mean I've been a big Barrera fan for a while but I almost started rooting for JMM during the fight because of HBO's commentary. It was that bad, Lampley was crediting Barrera for landing punches that he never threw. Just think if Lampley loved Winky like he does Barrera, Winky could just stay in his shell, throw no punches, and win a UD on Lampley's scorecard. I actually am going to watch it again with no sound, to see if maybe I gave JMM too much of the benefit of the doubt because I was so disgusted by Lampley. If that makes any sense at all. ??? Cause I was shocked to see people thought Barrera won actually, I guess I was really out of the loop around the time of this fight and I didn't see what people on here thought about it.
I initially watched it on the Korean networks so I had no need to worry about bias. I had Barrera edging it by a point or two. I recently decided to reevaluate and watch it again and I did score it Barrera by 3 points. I watched it again. The two rounds I gave as even are the only rounds that are not clear but must be scored to someone and so I do see how the edge might go to Marquez in those. Especially the 5th.
Marquez had 2 huge rounds in the fight and that does seem to have sewn most of the opinions on this fight. But if you take it on a round by round basis, I find it incredibly hard to make a case for JMM winning. A dominant round is still equal to a round won in a less domineering fashion.
I thought Marquez was more consistent that that. I didn't seriously score the bout, if I want to seriously score a fight I usually do it the second time I watch it. But I remember giving Marquez 7 rounds, and there was another round I just couldn't make up my mind on, and since I only watched it live I couldn't rewind it and make sure.
But I guess there's no point until I see it again. If I can get it downloaded I'll come up with a round by round.
Re: Barrera: Marquez...After reflection who do you think won?
great fight (not fight of the year bell vs.mormeck 2 imo)
only saw it twice but a i remebered i first thought it was a draw the second i thought jmm won
i thouht jmm was moving good punches look fluid seem like he started good caught his second wind nade close at then end
Re: Barrera: Marquez...After reflection who do you think won?
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
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Originally Posted by Julius Rain
JMM WON, the knock down should of counted but it doesn't change the outcome. JMM STILL WON!!!!!!!
jmm made the fight, he caught mab more and more often. MAB didn't do more to deserve the win. JMM took it and JMM deserved it, end of story.
And Also what do you mean Barrera didn't do more to deserve to win ?? Barrera fought his heart out threw more and landed more.
Ice, your opinions on the fight are much the same as when the fight was just over. The points you make are consistent to say the least. I respect that.
Besides Oumafan, nobody has been able to come on here and suggest discussion for any particular rounds in the fight. Nobody has been able to break down the fight and say how it was scored.
All I wanted here was a discussion and all we have are statements of the ilk of Mr Julius Rain! :-\
Re: Barrera: Marquez...After reflection who do you think won?
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Originally Posted by OumaFan
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Originally Posted by miles
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Originally Posted by OumaFan
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Originally Posted by miles
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Originally Posted by OumaFan
Wow, I've never really discussed this fight much, I guess I was not around here at the time. I thought Marquez won it clearly. I've only seen it once, I don't remember how I scored each exact round but I'm Miles I'm surprised you had Barrera winning the 11th and having the 12th a draw. I clearly thought he swept the last three, I remember that for sure. I thought JMM was getting more dominant as the fight went on, especially those last three.
As for why I scored the fight the way I did, I thought it was clear who was doing damage, and that was JMM. MAB worked the jab pretty well and did pretty well early (again I can't remember round for round, I may download it actually and watch it again just to see if maybe I was wrong slightly but honestly I can't see how my card would change that much. That and I'd have to sit through Lampley verbally massaging Barrera's genitals for another 12 rounds.) But I thought JMM was slicker, seemed more accurate with power punches, landed the far better punches, and when they exchanged I thought he got the best almost every time. I tend to side with effective damaging punching more in scoring a fight though so maybe that's why I thought it was so clear.
Fair points. :coolclick:, for bringing up specific rounds that I should re-evaluate.
I do still think that Barrera won the 11th. He controlled the majority of the round with his jab. Marquez landed some nice blows but for much of the round was ineffective. I conceded earlier in the thread that the even rounds were possibly Marquez rounds. I think those were the 5th and 12th. Barrera does indeed have his moments in the 12th also though.
An awkward fight to score and thats the main reason why I wanted it discussed.
CC. I thought JMM won it fairly clearly but I've only seen it once.
I'm going to download it and watch it again with the sound off.
I mean I've been a big Barrera fan for a while but I almost started rooting for JMM during the fight because of HBO's commentary. It was that bad, Lampley was crediting Barrera for landing punches that he never threw. Just think if Lampley loved Winky like he does Barrera, Winky could just stay in his shell, throw no punches, and win a UD on Lampley's scorecard. I actually am going to watch it again with no sound, to see if maybe I gave JMM too much of the benefit of the doubt because I was so disgusted by Lampley. If that makes any sense at all. ??? Cause I was shocked to see people thought Barrera won actually, I guess I was really out of the loop around the time of this fight and I didn't see what people on here thought about it.
I initially watched it on the Korean networks so I had no need to worry about bias. I had Barrera edging it by a point or two. I recently decided to reevaluate and watch it again and I did score it Barrera by 3 points. I watched it again. The two rounds I gave as even are the only rounds that are not clear but must be scored to someone and so I do see how the edge might go to Marquez in those. Especially the 5th.
Marquez had 2 huge rounds in the fight and that does seem to have sewn most of the opinions on this fight. But if you take it on a round by round basis, I find it incredibly hard to make a case for JMM winning. A dominant round is still equal to a round won in a less domineering fashion.
I thought Marquez was more consistent that that. I didn't seriously score the bout, if I want to seriously score a fight I usually do it the second time I watch it. But I remember giving Marquez 7 rounds, and there was another round I just couldn't make up my mind on, and since I only watched it live I couldn't rewind it and make sure.
But I guess there's no point until I see it again. If I can get it downloaded I'll come up with a round by round.
I will be interested to see your Round by Round. A quality fight, the judges for that fight were typically awful though! :-\
Re: Barrera: Marquez...After reflection who do you think won?
I think at the time I scored it for Marquez, but very close. I remember thinking it could of gone either way though
