My Updated All-Time P4P List

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by Jeff Spicoli Surfs In 'Nawlins

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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

I actually feel bit sorry for Pryor Mick Leonard didn't want anything to do with him he was supposed to fight Ray Boom Boom Mancini but Mancini got upset by Bramble alot of fighters ducked Pryor i agree he is bit overrated but i think he is best Junior Welterweight ever.

I understand where you are coming from with Pryor but then you'd have to do the same for everyone else. The thing is you gotta measure them all the same.

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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

but i think he is best Junior Welterweight ever.

Well to each is own, but I mean an arguement can be made for Tszyu and Cervantes.

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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

I also think Zarate is overrated aswell he had impressive ko record but lets be honest they were against cab drivers ;)

Well for his early fights I would say he was fighting fighters that up and comers fight.
When he beat Martinez for the title Martinez was no push over and Martinez was on a roll defending his title. Having just beat Herrera who had previously beaten him twice if memory serves me right. Not only did Zarate beat Martinez but he KO'd him and Zarate also went on to defend his title I think 9 times and all of those wins also came by KO and these guys were no longer cab drivers as you say these were World Class fighters. Somewhere in there you will find that he fought Alfonso Zamora who many people don't know was in reality a 'Unification' bout BUT the stupid WBC & WBA refused to acknowledge the showdown between these two but people knew who was the man in the Bantam div. once Zarate KO'd Zamora, he became the man there. He then moved up in weight to face Gomez who hit him while he was down and lost.

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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

And you know something else Mick i notice when alot of Boxing experts do these lists i think the old fighters get too much credit like from 30s 40s ect and newer fighters like in 80s don't get enough credit.

Well ICB, I agree with what your saying in someways but IMO, I always measure todays fighters by the old fighters and take it from there. Sometimes like in the case of let's say Pryor who do you measure him by?
Pinky?
Perkins?
Benitez?
So I personally just look at all the champs that have campaigned there and take it from there.

I understand where you are coming from with Pryor but then you'd have to do the same for everyone else. The thing is you gotta measure them all the same.

I understand what your saying but i still think its unfair how all the big fighters avoided him and i consider him best Junior Welterweight Tszyu wouldn't of beat him he hated pressure fighters who didn't allow him to get distance aka Vince Phillips aka Hatton.

Well for his early fights I would say he was fighting fighters that up and comers fight.
When he beat Martinez for the title Martinez was no push over and Martinez was on a roll defending his title. Having just beat Herrera who had previously beaten him twice if memory serves me right. Not only did Zarate beat Martinez but he KO'd him and Zarate also went on to defend his title I think 9 times and all of those wins also came by KO and these guys were no longer cab drivers as you say these were World Class fighters. Somewhere in there you will find that he fought Alfonso Zamora who many people don't know was in reality a 'Unification' bout BUT the stupid WBC & WBA refused to acknowledge the showdown between these two but people knew who was the man in the Bantam div. once Zarate KO'd Zamora, he became the man there. He then moved up in weight to face Gomez who hit him while he was down and lost.

Im not saying he beat all cab drivers but alot of his kos did come from cab drivers he beat few goodish opposition but when he come up against the elite of the elite he failed im not saying thats bad thing losing to people like Wilfredo Gomez Daniel Zaragoza Jeff Fenech is nothing to be ashamed of but i still feel Zarate is bit overrated he never beat any of the top boys and his best wins were against goodish opposition.

Well ICB, I agree with what your saying in someways but IMO, I always measure todays fighters by the old fighters and take it from there. Sometimes like in the case of let's say Pryor who do you measure him by?

What i mean is like VD made good point people like Greb and ect people have never seen fight but he is top ten of there lists and i feel the newer fighters don't get a fair share slice.

1 ,Alberto davila Was/Is No "cab-briver".ask zamora & L.pintor.Just because You Have Not Seen A Fighter by No Means They Were Not As Great As They really were...W.T.F.Belive It Or Not ?Read A Book,Watch some Tapes.With REspect Of course,Harry greb Was A Savage and I Trust The Scribes,historians,and fans before ME For some insight.Greb is hard to nail down on tape though=h.ls only but CASAMOYOR top 50 all time.Newbies go to the back of the line so 20 or 30 yrs. U can make the same points.

I guess if scribes, historians and fans before you told you that Greb was God. You probably would believe it, huh? I go with what I see and make my own opinion. I don't follow the leader and go by somebody else opinion.

Its not your opinion in question,Everyone has one,or ten.facts tend to be so non subjective .Greb Was Good...But He Sure As Shit Was Not God.Its cool to disagree and Im not trying to twist your words.That old school,and i know you this,is due Big Respect.Know & invest in fight history.Years from now todays fighters will be the ones YOU Rant about.