Re: Why All This Hate For Larry Holmes ??
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Originally Posted by Punisher136
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Originally Posted by Beanflicker
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Originally Posted by Punisher136
Ali may have done all those things but he didn't whine about his success even when he ended up getting parkinson's.
Why would he whine about his success, he's easily the most respected and revered boxer to ever live. Then you have Larry Holmes who feels that he was as good or better than Ali (whether he is or not, I think any unbiased boxing fan would admit that Larry Holmes was one of the better HWs of all time), and
not getting 1/5000000th of the recognition or respect. I can see how it would be a hard pill for him to swallow.
Ali wasn't in a best damn sports show period countdown.... ;D
Hahaha, CC
Re: Why All This Hate For Larry Holmes ??
It also took quite a long time before Holmes started to get respect in his early career due to him not making olympic team when he lost to Duane Bobick in 1972 Olympic trials Holmes had to fight tough guys that nobody wanted to fight like 6 foot 5 Roy Tiger Williams man that guy was huge for that era its shame if he would of made Olympics and had won gold or silver or ect it would of been easier for him to climb his way through the ranks and make a name for himself much quicker then we could of seen Spinks vs Holmes, late 70s version of Ali vs Holmes, Foreman vs Holmes, Young vs Holmes, its shame Holmes made a name for himself a little to late.
Re: Why All This Hate For Larry Holmes ??
Foreman vs Holmes would have been one for the ages (back in the 70s of course, not the shirade they tried to organize back several years ago). I was on Larry's site and he still talks shit about Foreman haha.
Holmes/Young would have been interesting too.
Re: Why All This Hate For Larry Holmes ??
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Originally Posted by Beanflicker
Foreman vs Holmes would have been one for the ages (back in the 70s of course, not the shirade they tried to organize back several years ago). I was on Larry's site and he still talks S*** about Foreman haha.
Holmes/Young would have been interesting too.
I think Holmes would of beat Foreman because after Rumble In The Jungle Foreman seem to lose his prime having that life and death struggle with Lyle then getting outboxed by Young i think Holmes would of beat Foreman similar way to how Young doing it staying on outside not allowing Foreman to get on inside as for Young vs Holmes i think Holmes would of had quite a bit of trouble with a prime Young because Young could make you look stupid with his counter punching style but Holmes would adjust and win a decision.
Re: Why All This Hate For Larry Holmes ??
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Originally Posted by Violent Demise
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Oh man. That S*** will make me laugh till the day I F****** die. Hilarious. Cc Ice
Holmes flew in like Superman on Berbick, magnificent stuff!
Re: Why All This Hate For Larry Holmes ??
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
I think Holmes would of beat Foreman because after Rumble In The Jungle Foreman seem to lose his prime having that life and death struggle with Lyle then getting outboxed by Young i think Holmes would of beat Foreman similar way to how Young doing it staying on outside not allowing Foreman to get on inside as for Young vs Holmes i think Holmes would of had quite a bit of trouble with a prime Young because Young could make you look stupid with his counter punching style but Holmes would adjust and win a decision.
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Agreed. I think Holmes would win a clear UD over pre or post RiTJ Foreman. Jab in Foreman's face for 15 rounds (aint that the smart money on most hypothetical Larry Holmes fights anyway?).
Re: Why All This Hate For Larry Holmes ??
The only thing Ali had over Holmes was charisma, no way did he have better skills then Holmes, Maybe a better chin and thats doubtful too, since he was put down on his ass a few times also, Oh yea he could dance and run better then Holmes, and no one ever seen Holmes get a gift decision, Nobody can say that about Ali. Ali lost at least two fights against Norton if not all three, Jimmy Young beat him easy and the decision went to Ali. He lost to a mere amateur in Leon Spinks. Ali was despised by most until Howard Cosell took him under his wing and made him popular by giving him special air time. Ali by far was one the biggest and greatest assholes of ALL TIME. He never did what Holmes did in or out of the ring. I never seen Holmes disrespect an opponent in the ring and I never seen Ali do for his community as Holmes did in his home town of Easton Pennsylvania. And to this day he continues to help other fighters along with his friend Cooney.
Why is Ali considered the greatest of all time, because he said he was?. Holmes in his prime would have beat all of the all time greats. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it. So you guys can make a hundred top ten best heavies list of all time and if Larry Holmes is not on top it doesn't mean shit to me.
Re: Why All This Hate For Larry Holmes ??
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Originally Posted by Stebs
The only thing Ali had over Holmes was charisma, no way did he have better skills then Holmes, Maybe a better chin and thats doubtful too, since he was put down on his a** a few times also, Oh yea he could dance and run better then Holmes, and no one ever seen Holmes get a gift decision, Nobody can say that about Ali. Ali lost at least two fights against Norton if not all three, Jimmy Young beat him easy and the decision went to Ali. He lost to a mere amateur in Leon Spinks. Ali was despised by most until Howard Cosell took him under his wing and made him popular by giving him special air time. Ali by far was one the biggest and greatest assholes of ALL TIME. He never did what Holmes did in or out of the ring. I never seen Holmes disrespect an opponent in the ring and I never seen Ali do for his community as Holmes did in his home town of Easton Pennsylvania. And to this day he continues to help other fighters along with his friend Cooney.
Why is Ali considered the greatest of all time, because he said he was?. Holmes in his prime would have beat all of the all time greats. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it. So you guys can make a hundred top ten best heavies list of all time and if Larry Holmes is not on top it doesn't mean S*** to me.
and no one ever seen Holmes get a gift decision, Nobody can say that about Ali. Ali lost at least two fights against Norton if not all three, Jimmy Young beat him easy and the decision went to Ali. He lost to a mere amateur in Leon Spinks.
Only time Holmes had close decision's was against Witherspoon when i thought Holmes won by 1 round and against Carl Williams when i also thought he won by 1 round i do agree with Norton fights vs Ali i thought Ali lost 2 out of 3 in the trilogy and the Young fight well he made Ali look terrible and should of won the decison and even in Ali's so called unbeatable prime he had split decision win over Doug Jones and was knocked down by Lightheayweight Henry Cooper now im not hating on Ali put people do seem to forget these facts when debating about Ali.
Ali by far was one the biggest and greatest assholes of ALL TIME.
Well i wouldn't go that far but he certainly wasn't a nice person even though i respected his skill i mean look at what he did in Patterson fight he kept embarrassing Patterson by *saying whats my name* now if people think Holmes is such a bad person then why did he show mercy on Ali by pulling back on his punches and even pleading with the ref to stop the fight ?? Ali disrespected every single one of his opponents.
Re: Why All This Hate For Larry Holmes ??
Ali was given a loss for one of the norton fights. Whether he lost another or both of the others is debatable but the fact of the matter is he didn't steal the whole trilogy. Anybody he kept asking "What's my name?" to is justified. He changed his name after he converted to islam because he felt the name he was given was a slave name and bearing that name bothered him. Calling him that name was an insult to him after he changed it to muhammad ali. Don't insult the man unless you're prepared to look like a fool in the ring.
I know ali had his stumbles. He often didn't show up against people he felt were inferior to him and his ability. That cost him the first frazier fight and almost that cooper fight but again I remind you he was carrying cooper because he predicted a ko in round 5. Rewatch the fight and you'll see he was clearly carrying him until he got caught. He was not knocked out. Yes smelling salts were illegal and all that in the UK at the time but my argument is this: Ali was the world champion. There was no legitimate reason for it to take place overseas. Cooper I guess was a mandatory of sorts but he wasn't that high caliber of an opponent. There was no reason why ali should've had to travel to make that fight. And whether you like it or not, he came away the winner. People at ringside (commentators and even a doctor from what i've heard) knew he was doing things that weren't ok. They should've spoke up but they didn't. Therefor ali has the W and its never gonna be taken away from him so move on from that argument.
Haven't seen the doug jones fight in a long time. I can assure you that ali didn't feel threatened by him. If you think thats just me trying to cover for ali really being a bum watch the wepner fight involving an ali thats past it. Watch ali before the knockdown and watch him after. 2 completely different fighters. I wish he would've given his all in the early years and against his weaker opponents so we wouldn't be able to have these debates but he usually half assed it against them so I guess it comes with the territory of talking about the man. Most other all-time heavyweight greats didn't have the luxury of being able to cash it in for a night and still win a fight (even by ko when not trying at times).
Ali was the best boxer in the best era of his division. He has the greatest legacy of any heavyweight fighter. He doesn't hold any record like most consecutive this or that but he transcended sport more than any other athlete that was ever around. If holmes would've won that olympic trial fight like you mentioned maybe he would've been included in that late 70's era. He would got the fights that actually mattered but he dropped the ball. Just like I had no say whether ali showed up 100% against all his opposition, you had no say in holmes getting those fights.
It would've been a good match. Prime for prime, I got Ali. He WAS faster. Jab is debateable as is power but ali was faster and moved better. Would've been a great fight but it was never really an option so we need to let it go.
Re: Why All This Hate For Larry Holmes ??
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Originally Posted by Stebs
The only thing Ali had over Holmes was charisma, no way did he have better skills then Holmes, Maybe a better chin and thats doubtful too, since he was put down on his a** a few times also, Oh yea he could dance and run better then Holmes, and no one ever seen Holmes get a gift decision, Nobody can say that about Ali. Ali lost at least two fights against Norton if not all three, Jimmy Young beat him easy and the decision went to Ali. He lost to a mere amateur in Leon Spinks. Ali was despised by most until Howard Cosell took him under his wing and made him popular by giving him special air time. Ali by far was one the biggest and greatest assholes of ALL TIME. He never did what Holmes did in or out of the ring. I never seen Holmes disrespect an opponent in the ring and I never seen Ali do for his community as Holmes did in his home town of Easton Pennsylvania. And to this day he continues to help other fighters along with his friend Cooney.
Why is Ali considered the greatest of all time, because he said he was?. Holmes in his prime would have beat all of the all time greats. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it. So you guys can make a hundred top ten best heavies list of all time and if Larry Holmes is not on top it doesn't mean S*** to me.
I actually agree with your opinion that Holmes would have beaten all of the ATG hws. But I gotta say that for all the flash Ali had, he does deserve his spot as the greatest of all time for the level of compedition he fought and beat.
I've seen Holmes disrespect a few guys in the ring. He fought some journeyman/bum named Rocky Pepelli in the early 90s and after the fight Pepelli claimed in the post fight interview that Larry was a racist and was making some racial slurs towards him in the ring like "common whiteboy lets see what you got", ect. And then while he was still giving the post fight interview, Larry walked by and started saying "you should be honored to have fought one of the greatest hws of all time!" and "Larry Holmes is very rich! He doesn't need to be fighting these bums on small cards for chump change". I think at the end Rocky admitting to being a big Holmes fan and they shook hands but Larry could be a dick when he wanted to. I mean this Pepeli bum was disrespecting Holmes too but still, it was funny,.
Re: Why All This Hate For Larry Holmes ??
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Originally Posted by Beanflicker
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Originally Posted by Punisher136
Ali may have done all those things but he didn't whine about his success even when he ended up getting parkinson's.
Why would he whine about his success, he's easily the most respected and revered boxer to ever live. Then you have Larry Holmes who feels that he was as good or better than Ali (whether he is or not, I think any unbiased boxing fan would admit that Larry Holmes was one of the better HWs of all time), and not getting 1/5000000th of the recognition or respect. I can see how it would be a hard pill for him to swallow.
And that would be the point,the guy was 49-0 at one point,had beaten every single challenger out there,and people were just PRAYING for the guy to lose rather then match Marciano's record
You could make a strong case that he was helped along to not match that record
And yet to this day some people talk with more reverence about Ernie Shavers and Ken Norton then Holmes
Re: Why All This Hate For Larry Holmes ??
Holmes looked to be a sound fighter with a mean up jab. He would rock a an opponent with his jab. then take them to bed with the right hand. Holmes held the Title for many years,. thats to be respected ! O0
Re: Why All This Hate For Larry Holmes ??
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Originally Posted by Violent Demise
Holmes was a good/almost great champion. Anybody who can't see that is a F****** idiot. It's pretty much that simple.
What do you mean almost great? He is easily top ten heavies ever.
Re: Why All This Hate For Larry Holmes ??
Holmes should definitely be in anyones top ten heavies listing and only lost as age got the better of him,
his fight with Norton is a classic and he lost two dubious decisions to Spinks.
He was the real HW champ for seven years, had one of the best left Jabs in HW history and must be given the credit due to him.
Re: Why All This Hate For Larry Holmes ??
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Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN
Holmes should definitely be in anyones top ten heavies listing and only lost as age got the better of him,
his fight with Norton is a classic and he lost two dubious decisions to Spinks.
He was the real HW champ for seven years, had one of the best left Jabs in HW history and must be given the credit due to him.
Everyones top 5 more like ;)
