Who should be rated higher on the all time Greatest Heavies Holyfeild or Tyson

Yea but who would you pick to win if they fought at any time in there career Cut.
But i might be wrong but i think that i am right but just opinion so it is very debatable.

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Yea but who would you pick to win if they fought at any time in there career Cut.

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ino ment for CMM but ill give you my take on that!
Tyson wins a decision here. And believe me i am a big fan of Holy.

Honestly i can not see Tyson beating Holyfeild he was just not a big enough bully. Evander would break him down mentally and i see a late Tko win for evander for the most part Evander Chin and rentlessness would win it.

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Honestly i can not see Tyson beating Holyfeild he was just not a big enough bully. Evander would break him down mentally and i see a late Tko win for evander for the most part Evander Chin and rentlessness would win it.

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Fair point. I just think that it was after the trainer passing away when that level of doubt crept into his head. Before that i dont think he would be thrown off track by anyone around tbh.

ito be ranked in the top 10 HW the fighters title reign is a huge factor so it all depends on whose record u respect more on successful defences

holyfields
1st reign after winnin the belt from james douglas- foreman, bert cooper, larry holmes (both foreman & holmes went the distance, cooper got Ko'd)
2nd reign aftet winin the belt against bowe-- NOBODY
3rd Regin after winning the belt from tyson,, michael moorer (IBF champ) & vaughn bean
4th reign after winnin from john Ruiz-- NOBODY (lost in the rematch)

Tyson
1st reign after winning the belt from Trevor Berbick--- James smith (WBA title), pinklon thomas, tony tucker (IBF title), tyrell biggs, larry holmes tony tubbs, michael spinks (RING belt), frank bruno & carl williams
2nd reign after winning the belt from frank bruno--- bruce seldon


SO THROUGHOUT ALL THEIR TITLE REIGNS HOLYFIELD SUCCESSFULLY DEFENDED HIS TITLE 5 TIMES, TYSON SUCCESSFULLY DEFENDED HIS 10 TIMES

THE QUALITY OF OPPONENT HOLYFIELD DEFENDING HIS BELT AGAINST PICK OF THE BUNCH WAS PROB MICHAEL MOORER, AN AGING HOLMES & FOREMAN (FOREMAN WAS OLD BUT STILL DANGEROUS, HOLMES STILL WENT THE DISTANCE AGAINST EVANDER EVEN THOUGH HE WAS DESTROYED BY TYSON 4 YEARS BEFORE)
TYSONS PICK OF THE BUNCH,, LARRY HOLMES, SPINKS, PINKLON THOMAS

ON THE QUALITY OF OPPONENTS THEY DEFENDED TITLES AGAINST---- I'D SAY IT WAS PRETTY CLOSE BETWEEN THE 2

SUCCESSFUL TITLE FIGHTS HOLYFIELD --DOUGLAS, BOWE, TYSON,RUIZ
SUCCESSFUL TITLE FIGHTS TYSON--BERBICK, SMITH,TUCKER,BRUNO

TITLE FIGHTS WHERE THEY CLAIMED THE BELTS----- I'D SAY HOLYFIELD HAD THE BETTER OPPENENT EVEN IF ONE OF THEM WAS A FAT DOUGLAS & JOHN RUIZ LOL

WHO HAD THE MOST DOMINENT REIGN-- TYSON WITHOUT A DOUBT, IF MY MEMORY SERVES CORRECTLY WHEN HE WAS CHAMP IN 89 I THINK TYSON HAD BEATEN 8 OR 9 OF THE TOP10 RANKED HEAVYWEIGHTS BELOW HIM OR SOMETHING OF THAT NATURE, PLUS TYSON GETS AN ADDED BONUS OF ACTUALLY GOIN ROUND UNIFYING THE BELTS ONE BY ONE & WINNING THE "RING" BELT (WHICH TO MY KNOWLEDGE I DONT THINK HOLYFIELD EVER WON)

AS NATURAL SKILL ON PAPER GOES--- OVERALL I'D GIVE IT TYSON (SPEED POWER ETC)

MENTAL GAME--- NOT EVEN CLOSE ,HOLYFIELD ALL THE WAY

RANKED HIGHER??-- CLOSE CALL I THINK HOLYFIELD REACHED HIS FULL POTENTIAL WHERE AS TYSON DIDNT SO ITS HARD TO SPLIT THE 2 BUT COS OF THE SHEER DOMINANCE OF TYSONS 1ST TITLE REIGN I THINK HE JUST ABOUT EDGES IT

Bring up good points depends what you look at the opposition, dominance and how many title defences. To me Tyson was champ in one of the weakest era of boxing. While Holyfeild was just under Lewis and there era is better then all of the eras except for Ali era but still just what you look at.

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Bring up good points depends what you look at the opposition, dominance and how many title defences. To me Tyson was champ in one of the weakest era of boxing. While Holyfeild was just under Lewis and there era is better then all of the eras except for Ali era but still just what you look at.

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THANK YOU!!!! CC

All these Tyson fans still harp on how bad ass he was and how he destroyed whoever he fought....guys he fought an ancient Larry Holmes and Michael Spinks who didn't want anything but the paycheck. Tyson wasn't challenged until after his prime in the "Holyfield, Bowe, Lewis" era.....and he didn't fight Lewis in the 90's when he was really tough and may have posed a threat and he NEVER fought Bowe....he fought Bruno, Rudduck, and Golota, and Holyfield too.....that was convieniently "past his prime" amazing how that works ain't it? Tyson becomes past his prime when he fights good opponents....I for one don't think it's a coincidence

Another Tyson debate begins ;D

Don't worry Miles, BIG H, Cockey Cokney, im leaving this one well alone ;)

Thank you CC you back and i think you and me are on the right page and Ice come on lay some words down i do not agree all the time and what you have to say but i like to debate and argue with you so lay some words down.

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Thank you CC you back and i think you and me are on the right page and Ice come on lay some words down i do not agree all the time and what you have to say but i like to debate and argue with you so lay some words down.

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The last time i debated on a Tyson thread it went on 20+ pages i've debated enough on Tyson.

Yea i think one o my eariest post was why Tyson was so great if you rember it went about that long.

CC woodzo I agree Tyson just edges it for the reasons you stated. Holyfield prime which ever version could not beat the Tyson during his first reign. Tyson made that era look weak because he obliterated the majority of the top ten opponents.

Holyfield was just not consistant enough champion loosing to Moorer for instance.

It's close, but Holy pips it for the simple fact he beat Tyson twice, Tyson may not have been at his so called 'prime' but Holy was older and overcome some pretty serious illnesses.

So called all time great lists are bollocks IMO, though they are fun to discuss. There will never be agreement on them since people will always shift the criteria to suit there favourite fighters. Tyson fans will always use the criteria that compare some mythical prime for prime contests to elevate their guy, while Marciano fans will use the fact that he defeated everyone single guy he faced, and Louis fans will judge criteria on championship reign.

My opinion on Tyson is that he was very physically gifted with speed and strength for his size, he was also very well taiught in an effective technique. He may very well have beaten many of the champs of the past (IMO Marciano, Dempsey, Louis) if you were to pluck those guys out of those times and just stick them in the ring with him at his marauding best, but such a situation would be so heavily stacked in Tyson's favour it's just stupid, like comparing Jesse Owens to Asafa Powell in the same way.

The question you have to ask is what would Tyson have done in the ring if he had been bought up in the same way those guys had in their times? he'd have been about the same size as them, and would never have had his mentor with him telling him EXACTLY which punch to throw when and why. Though he may have been physically gifted, he never had the mental strength to compete with those guys, Tyson very rarely won a close fight.

IMO Tyson is just about top 10 of all time great champions, though his reign was brief he did manage to clean out the division, which not too many fighters have done in the history of the sport. He is below Holy and Lewis of the 80s 90s fighters, but I agree with Lyle, though prime Bowe may have had the style to beat a peak Tyson, his peak was even brifer and he achieved less.

Holyfield. Durability alone and the ability to still be able to take a punch says alot. I doubt even todays Holyfield would be knocked out by McBride or Williams.

Holyfield also beat Tyson twice, has fought more quality, and has won the world title 4 times.

After reading all the posts i guess Holyfeild is better heavyweight maybe top 10.