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Tunney beat Dempsey I don't see him pulverized by anyone really.
Stopped perhaps as Greb did, but not beaten badly
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Tunney beat Dempsey I don't see him pulverized by anyone really.
Stopped perhaps as Greb did, but not beaten badly
Greb didn't stop Tunney. Almost killed him, but didn't stop him.
I know that. See the article I wrote on Tunney in which i depicted how brave he was in that fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by greynotsoold
However, in the eras following those bloody times do you not feel a fight such as that would have been stopped (I'm thinking of the Final LaMotta/Robinson fight)
Tunney is very underrated, he was also the first HW that moved light on his feet i believe.
He adopted a lot of tactics from Jim Corbett (the first "skilled" heavyweight) and lighter weight boxers. He realised that starting at a lighter weight and moving up he had to emphasise his speed and power would come when punches landed correctly.
He was a good fighter but in order to be a great fighter he needed to beat the 'caretaker' champions after Dempsey such as Sharkey et al to cement his legacy. Joe Louis was a great champion and Tunney did have the skills to cause problems but not the punch that would deter him.
One could raisethe arguement that Billy Conn didnt either.
....one could also raise the fact that Joe threw shorter and more powerful punches than Dempsey at the time when he fought Tunney.
It would have been a good fight but I think a peak Joe Louis beats pretty much anyone
Whilst im in agreement with you Lyle I feel that Louis may have been more flawed than we think he was.
Schmeling saw the weakness and exploited it. I feel Tunney certainly would have spotted it and attempted to take advantage of the openeing. Had Tunney the power to do what Schmeling did?
I think so, but I'll never no!
Tunney did not have the power of Schmeling and Louis improved after that defeat. The best Loius beats Tunney.
Gene Tunney would move and jab until there was nothing left for Joe to do he would not let joe plant and that would be joes down fall Tunny by a clear UD beats Louis 15 out 20 in my book and doe it with a jab and good movement something that would cause joe major problems if he watch his fights.
Tunney was good as a heavyweight but he did only beat an old Jack Dempsey and he only had 3 fights at heavyweight.
Louis had trouble with Billy Conn a great light heavyweight but you can't judge how Tunney would do only on that result. And Joe STILL WON let's not forget it.
As a boxer Joe puts Dempsey to shame....he could jab and land combinations and use defense
Lyle:
I think that the win against Conn was more a result of Conn's incapacity to resist the opportunity for a knockout. In deciding to drop to the soles of his feet and attempt to get Louis out of there he got caught, so Conn's loss rather than Louis' win you know?
I wouldn't say that Jack Dempsey was that "old" at the time. Lazy, out of shape and rusty perhaps. But his fight with Sharkey between The Tunney fights illustrated that he was not dipossessed of his power or his will to KO an opponent (although he had to cahse Sharkey like he did Tunney.)
On the night of the long count too Jack looked good early, but Tunney came back again to outbox him, so I give Tunney huge props.
Master:
In light of the recent Heavyweight scene, it is difficult to keep in mind that boxing (even at heavy) is not all about power. Ali fighting Liston for the first time would not have made any great impression using his power alone. Larry Holmes wasn't exactly a devastating puncher.
And in the history of the heavyweight there have been numerous boxers whose succeses have been down to their skill more than their strength. Guys like Walcott, Charles, Ellis and indeed Lewis all set up their KO victories with great moivement and accurate punching in combination.
The weakness in Louis guard wuld have been exploited by Tunney therefore. Perhaps not to the same devastating effect that Schmeling exploited it but instead just to pop at it, score points and keep the brown bomber off balance. I love Joe Louis, but i can't say for sure he would beat Gene Tunney
I am not saying he would definitely win but I believe the Dempsey that destroyed Willard would have beaten Tunney and Joe was better than Dempsey. I know it does not always follow but you get my point.
I take it you mean Prime Louis> Prime Dempsey> Prime Willard.
I actually have my reservations about calling Willard prime there by the way...
Willard indeed was a formidable opponent though and it's no secret he had power, as i feel his KO win over Johnson was perfectly legit.
However I just feel Tunney was another kettle of Fish. Master, please don't think I'm arguing that Tunney wouyld have murdered Joe or anything like that, butI feel he does deserve to be recognised up there with the top 20 or so.