Re: Mayweather v Hatton will be the biggest AND best fight of 2007!
I think it's your wording that makes it confusing Donny(no offence)He does rely on his defence alot more than his offence(which wasn't necessarily the case 140 and below). The older he gets,the more defensive minded he is getting,so in that sense,maybe it is abit like B Hop,but hey,Mayweather is 100 times more fun to watch and does whatever he needs to to get the W.
Re: Mayweather v Hatton will be the biggest AND best fight of 2007!
How does Mayweather look past it because a fast fighter like OScar got him on the ropes a few times, when Mayweather wanted him to? Was nobody listening to him leading up to the fight, and his corner during the fight, they wanted Oscar to have him on the ropes so that he would tire himself out. Oscar is much faster than Hatton, and he barely landed anything. I think Hatton presents the same trouble Castillo did in that he can hold and punch which gave Mayweather problems, but this fight won't be as big as Mayweather-Oscar, it might be close, but its not that big. Also Mayweather is too much better than Hatton for this be the best fight of 2007, Mayweather will win it by too large of a margin... unless you ask those people who somehow thought Oscar made it a close fight. Oscar made the fight competitive for a few rounds and won three or four of them, but in the end Mayweather outboxed him. Hatton will have nightmares with Mayweather just like everyone else.
Re: Mayweather v Hatton will be the biggest AND best fight of 2007!
You need knock downs, no holding, and a lot of sway in momentum is basically what I am trying to say, and this doesn't have that.
Re: Mayweather v Hatton will be the biggest AND best fight of 2007!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonny
Again Ice i find myself surprised that you are an amaateur boxer yet you answer like this. When you move continuously and stay out of range it is easy not to get hit, and it is no great achievement to stay out of range or move just out of range as an opponent attacks.
You speak as if staying out of trouble alone is enough to warrant the merit of being called a great fighter. Let me pose this question to you Ice, when De la Hoya got close and Mayweather used his shoulder roll defence was it as effective as it had been earlier in his career?
I don't think it was, in fact the reason DLH scored so little was largely as a result of Floyd's superior movement.
I never claimed Floyd was pst it, i incinuated that he is not what he once was, perhaps he went through a stale patch as many great fighters do, perhaps he is feeling the effects of the muscle on his body or perhaps age is beginning to crinkle his physical abilities, i'm not sure, but Floyd is not what he was earlier.
Why are you surprised ?? and you say Mayweather was out of range but infact Oscar De La Hoya got close to Mayweather many times and got him on the ropes plenty of times and yes his shoulder roll defense still worked like a treat because all of Oscar De La Hoya's flurries missed due to Mayweather's shoulder roll defense Oscar would throw about 6 or 8 punches and he would only landed 1 and sometimes 0 Oscar De La Hoya threw alot more punches than Mayweather and he only landed 21 percent that in itself is an amazing achievement making a great boxer like Oscar De La Hoya miss as many times as Mayweather did.
Like i said Hatton has looked more past it than Mayweather.
Well i'm in disagreement with you there.
Percentages or compubox numbers are not readily available to be considered by the judges during a fight.
What is evident is a boxer flurrying and connecting. One of the reasons that Floyd won by a SD was because Oscar threw punches while floyd was on the ropes and floyd's shoulder roll wasn't effective enough to show the judges that he was handling DLH's aggression. We saw clearly that Dlh was missing via tv, the crowd and judges saw Floyd trapped on the ropes being flurried on....
So where as it appeared like a clean cut win to you and rightfully so the judges who are supposedly in the best seat in the house looked upward to see a closer fight.
Unfortunately this is where debate collapses, You hold one belief firmly, I hold another opposing belief firmly...we can't change each other's minds.
Re: Mayweather v Hatton will be the biggest AND best fight of 2007!
I still don't know how any one professional judge could have scored that fight 115-113 for DLH...That was ridiculous..the judge who got it best was the one who scored 116-112. That was more accurate. I remember Kellerman going ape shit at the judge who scored it DLH...'9 rounds to 3 Floyd, maybe 8 rounds to 4, even if you scored 7 rounds to 5 Mayweather you got a problem with me!'
Re: Mayweather v Hatton will be the biggest AND best fight of 2007!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Althugz
I still don't know how any one professional judge could have scored that fight 115-113 for DLH...That was ridiculous..the judge who got it best was the one who scored 116-112. That was more accurate. I remember Kellerman going ape S*** at the judge who scored it DLH...'9 rounds to 3 Floyd, maybe 8 rounds to 4, even if you scored 7 rounds to 5 Mayweather you got a problem with me!'
So, I scored it 7 to 5.
Re: Mayweather v Hatton will be the biggest AND best fight of 2007!
Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonny
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonny
Again Ice i find myself surprised that you are an amaateur boxer yet you answer like this. When you move continuously and stay out of range it is easy not to get hit, and it is no great achievement to stay out of range or move just out of range as an opponent attacks.
You speak as if staying out of trouble alone is enough to warrant the merit of being called a great fighter. Let me pose this question to you Ice, when De la Hoya got close and Mayweather used his shoulder roll defence was it as effective as it had been earlier in his career?
I don't think it was, in fact the reason DLH scored so little was largely as a result of Floyd's superior movement.
I never claimed Floyd was pst it, i incinuated that he is not what he once was, perhaps he went through a stale patch as many great fighters do, perhaps he is feeling the effects of the muscle on his body or perhaps age is beginning to crinkle his physical abilities, i'm not sure, but Floyd is not what he was earlier.
Why are you surprised ?? and you say Mayweather was out of range but infact Oscar De La Hoya got close to Mayweather many times and got him on the ropes plenty of times and yes his shoulder roll defense still worked like a treat because all of Oscar De La Hoya's flurries missed due to Mayweather's shoulder roll defense Oscar would throw about 6 or 8 punches and he would only landed 1 and sometimes 0 Oscar De La Hoya threw alot more punches than Mayweather and he only landed 21 percent that in itself is an amazing achievement making a great boxer like Oscar De La Hoya miss as many times as Mayweather did.
Like i said Hatton has looked more past it than Mayweather.
Well i'm in disagreement with you there.
Percentages or compubox numbers are not readily available to be considered by the judges during a fight.
What is evident is a boxer flurrying and connecting. One of the reasons that Floyd won by a SD was because Oscar threw punches while floyd was on the ropes and floyd's shoulder roll wasn't effective enough to show the judges that he was handling DLH's aggression. We saw clearly that Dlh was missing via tv, the crowd and judges saw Floyd trapped on the ropes being flurried on....
So where as it appeared like a clean cut win to you and rightfully so the judges who are supposedly in the best seat in the house looked upward to see a closer fight.
Unfortunately this is where debate collapses, You hold one belief firmly, I hold another opposing belief firmly...we can't change each other's minds.
Well i'm in disagreement with you there.
Percentages or compubox numbers are not readily available to be considered by the judges during a fight.
What is evident is a boxer flurrying and connecting.
Well im using the stats since we can't count the numbers are selves, but i did watch Oscar De La Hoya throwing his flurries in slow motion and most of them missed i can gurantee you that.
One of the reasons that Floyd won by a SD was because Oscar threw punches while floyd was on the ropes and floyd's shoulder roll wasn't effective enough to show the judges that he was handling DLH's aggression.
Or maybe the judges just made a bad error like they have done in the past ?? your basing your arguement on Mayweather being past it based on the judges scoring the fight SD, its hard for the judges to tell if Oscar De La Hoya was missing with those flurries with the view they have got his flurries came so quick that they wouldn't be able to tell but it doesn't really matter, i think your being too hard on Mayweather. Considering that was at a weight he had never fought at before, and he still made Oscar De La Hoya only landed 21 percent of his punches.
We saw clearly that Dlh was missing via tv, the crowd and judges saw Floyd trapped on the ropes being flurried on....
So where as it appeared like a clean cut win to you and rightfully so the judges who are supposedly in the best seat in the house looked upward to see a closer fight.
I don't really understand what your saying ?? so your saying the judges and the crowd saw Mayweather getting flurried on the ropes even though clearly when watching it on the TV they missed. And thats your arguement for Mayweather being past it ?? Sosa got completey outboxed by Mayweather but the crowd thought it was close it doesn't really matter what the crowd think or how close the judges scored it. Mayweather still outboxed Oscar De La Hoya and did not look past it i don't see how many can think Mayweather is past it making a great fighter like Oscar De La Hoya only landed 21 percent of his punches, and outboxed Oscar De La Hoya plus this was at a weightclass Mayweather had never fought at before so of course he won't be as good or as effective at a weightclass he had never fought at before but that doesn't mean he is past it.
Re: Mayweather v Hatton will be the biggest AND best fight of 2007!
Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonny
The best Mayweather is past Ice. Sure he's still miles away from the competition, but as i posted in another thread, he's beginning (like Bernard hopkins) to rely on his guile and expierience rather than his physical ability.
However i do feel this is a factor which has arisen from Floyd's numerous jump in weight, at lower weights, up until lightweight he was incredibly slick and lithe, since moving up toward light welter his body is more mechanical, practised in it's movements.
However this offers little to offer the Hatton fan hope, it merely indicates that Floyd is now drawing on his wealth of expierience from fights and training now in order to win fights.
I totally disagree. I think Mayweather has gotten slower than what he was when he was younger, but he has also gotten a lot stronger, not p4p wise, but in terms of how strong in general he is also. Also he is always improving technically... you look back to the G. Hernandez fight, you see mistakes he didn't make two years after that, and now he doesn't make mistakes he made 2 years past. His speed has diminished all that much, and I think most of it is due to the fact he has to plant his feet more now, and he has to push a little more with his punches.
Re: Mayweather v Hatton will be the biggest AND best fight of 2007!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonny
The best Mayweather is past Ice. Sure he's still miles away from the competition, but as i posted in another thread, he's beginning (like Bernard hopkins) to rely on his guile and expierience rather than his physical ability.
However i do feel this is a factor which has arisen from Floyd's numerous jump in weight, at lower weights, up until lightweight he was incredibly slick and lithe, since moving up toward light welter his body is more mechanical, practised in it's movements.
However this offers little to offer the Hatton fan hope, it merely indicates that Floyd is now drawing on his wealth of expierience from fights and training now in order to win fights.
I totally disagree. I think Mayweather has gotten slower than what he was when he was younger, but he has also gotten a lot stronger, not p4p wise, but in terms of how strong in general he is also. Also he is always improving technically... you look back to the G. Hernandez fight, you see mistakes he didn't make two years after that, and now he doesn't make mistakes he made 2 years past. His speed has diminished all that much, and I think most of it is due to the fact he has to plant his feet more now, and he has to push a little more with his punches.
Read virtually every post iv made on Mayweather, iv said the same thing as you.
Well im using the stats since we can't count the numbers are selves, but i did watch Oscar De La Hoya throwing his flurries in slow motion and most of them missed i can gurantee you that.
The Judges didn have slow motion either, my point stands.
Or maybe the judges just made a bad error like they have done in the past ?? your basing your arguement on Mayweather being past it based on the judges scoring the fight SD, its hard for the judges to tell if Oscar De La Hoya was missing with those flurries with the view they have got his flurries came so quick that they wouldn't be able to tell but it doesn't really matter, i think your being too hard on Mayweather. Considering that was at a weight he had never fought at before, and he still made Oscar De La Hoya only landed 21 percent of his punches.
Once again, the judges didn't look up at the action and say to each other, wow Oscar is only landing 21% of his punches!!! You just reiterated what i mentioned previously, it was hard for the judges to see him missing.
As for your claim that im being to hard on Floyd, well why? Yes i respect him for climbing weights it's very admirable, but it doesn't entitle him for any special treatment. Furthermore i don't judge Floyd harder than any other fighter climbing weights and losing momentum as a result. I was as if not more critical of my man Ricky after the faltering display against Collazo. No excuses if you want to climb weight you have to realisethat your against bigger guys and there are no extra poiunts for being the little guy.
I don't really understand what your saying ?? so your saying the judges and the crowd saw Mayweather getting flurried on the ropes even though clearly when watching it on the TV they missed. And thats your arguement for Mayweather being past it ?? Sosa got completey outboxed by Mayweather but the crowd thought it was close it doesn't really matter what the crowd think or how close the judges scored it. Mayweather still outboxed Oscar De La Hoya and did not look past it i don't see how many can think Mayweather is past it making a great fighter like Oscar De La Hoya only landed 21 percent of his punches, and outboxed Oscar De La Hoya plus this was at a weightclass Mayweather had never fought at before so of course he won't be as good or as effective at a weightclass he had never fought at before but that doesn't mean he is past it.
Ice i'm repeating myself now, it doesn't matter what the crowd, you or I think, it's the opinion of the judges that matters. Supplementary to that the Sosa fight has no bearing on this particular issue.
Once again, fighting at a new weightclass for the first time does not score you points, once the fight begins the impartial judges can only make their decision on the boxing they witness before them.
In all your arguement, you picked at my points, you attempted to sway my beliefs and prove me wrong, but you never once offered me a counter point from the De la Hoya fight to prove Mayweather is not past it or a moment in the DLh fight wher Floyd displayed moments of the sheer brilliance he forged his name on...a couple of years ago.
Re: Mayweather v Hatton will be the biggest AND best fight of 2007!
Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonny
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonny
The best Mayweather is past Ice. Sure he's still miles away from the competition, but as i posted in another thread, he's beginning (like Bernard hopkins) to rely on his guile and expierience rather than his physical ability.
However i do feel this is a factor which has arisen from Floyd's numerous jump in weight, at lower weights, up until lightweight he was incredibly slick and lithe, since moving up toward light welter his body is more mechanical, practised in it's movements.
However this offers little to offer the Hatton fan hope, it merely indicates that Floyd is now drawing on his wealth of expierience from fights and training now in order to win fights.
I totally disagree. I think Mayweather has gotten slower than what he was when he was younger, but he has also gotten a lot stronger, not p4p wise, but in terms of how strong in general he is also. Also he is always improving technically... you look back to the G. Hernandez fight, you see mistakes he didn't make two years after that, and now he doesn't make mistakes he made 2 years past. His speed has diminished all that much, and I think most of it is due to the fact he has to plant his feet more now, and he has to push a little more with his punches.
Read virtually every post iv made on Mayweather, iv said the same thing as you.
Well im using the stats since we can't count the numbers are selves, but i did watch Oscar De La Hoya throwing his flurries in slow motion and most of them missed i can gurantee you that.
The Judges didn have slow motion either, my point stands.
Or maybe the judges just made a bad error like they have done in the past ?? your basing your arguement on Mayweather being past it based on the judges scoring the fight SD, its hard for the judges to tell if Oscar De La Hoya was missing with those flurries with the view they have got his flurries came so quick that they wouldn't be able to tell but it doesn't really matter, i think your being too hard on Mayweather. Considering that was at a weight he had never fought at before, and he still made Oscar De La Hoya only landed 21 percent of his punches.
Once again, the judges didn't look up at the action and say to each other, wow Oscar is only landing 21% of his punches!!! You just reiterated what i mentioned previously, it was hard for the judges to see him missing.
As for your claim that im being to hard on Floyd, well why? Yes i respect him for climbing weights it's very admirable, but it doesn't entitle him for any special treatment. Furthermore i don't judge Floyd harder than any other fighter climbing weights and losing momentum as a result. I was as if not more critical of my man Ricky after the faltering display against Collazo. No excuses if you want to climb weight you have to realisethat your against bigger guys and there are no extra poiunts for being the little guy.
I don't really understand what your saying ?? so your saying the judges and the crowd saw Mayweather getting flurried on the ropes even though clearly when watching it on the TV they missed. And thats your arguement for Mayweather being past it ?? Sosa got completey outboxed by Mayweather but the crowd thought it was close it doesn't really matter what the crowd think or how close the judges scored it. Mayweather still outboxed Oscar De La Hoya and did not look past it i don't see how many can think Mayweather is past it making a great fighter like Oscar De La Hoya only landed 21 percent of his punches, and outboxed Oscar De La Hoya plus this was at a weightclass Mayweather had never fought at before so of course he won't be as good or as effective at a weightclass he had never fought at before but that doesn't mean he is past it.
Ice i'm repeating myself now, it doesn't matter what the crowd, you or I think, it's the opinion of the judges that matters. Supplementary to that the Sosa fight has no bearing on this particular issue.
Once again, fighting at a new weightclass for the first time does not score you points, once the fight begins the impartial judges can only make their decision on the boxing they witness before them.
In all your arguement, you picked at my points, you attempted to sway my beliefs and prove me wrong, but you never once offered me a counter point from the De la Hoya fight to prove Mayweather is not past it or a moment in the DLh fight wher Floyd displayed moments of the sheer brilliance he forged his name on...a couple of years ago.
The Judges didn have slow motion either, my point stands.
What point ??
Once again, the judges didn't look up at the action and say to each other, wow Oscar is only landing 21% of his punches!!! You just reiterated what i mentioned previously, it was hard for the judges to see him missing.
As for your claim that im being to hard on Floyd, well why? Yes i respect him for climbing weights it's very admirable, but it doesn't entitle him for any special treatment. Furthermore i don't judge Floyd harder than any other fighter climbing weights and losing momentum as a result. I was as if not more critical of my man Ricky after the faltering display against Collazo. No excuses if you want to climb weight you have to realisethat your against bigger guys and there are no extra poiunts for being the little guy.
No they didn't but who the hell cares if they did or not ?? your basing your arguement on how close the judges scored the fight to support your arguement so i suppose Whitaker looked past it against Chavez just because the judges had it a draw and it was close in there eyes ??
Im not asking you to give him special treatment but i don't really understand what your saying you have brought up about how close the judges scored the fight to support your arguement that Mayweather is past it when thats total crap because we have the stats and we have slow mo and we have better view of the fight and he made Oscar only landed 21 percent of his punches forgetting what judges scored it we know ourselves so who really cares about the judges ??
Ice i'm repeating myself now, it doesn't matter what the crowd, you or I think, it's the opinion of the judges that matters. Supplementary to that the Sosa fight has no bearing on this particular issue.
Once again, fighting at a new weightclass for the first time does not score you points, once the fight begins the impartial judges can only make their decision on the boxing they witness before them.
In all your arguement, you picked at my points, you attempted to sway my beliefs and prove me wrong, but you never once offered me a counter point from the De la Hoya fight to prove Mayweather is not past it or a moment in the DLh fight wher Floyd displayed moments of the sheer brilliance he forged his name on...a couple of years ago.
Why does the judges opinion matter ?? they get it wrong most of the time, the reason why i brought up Sosa fight is because you brought up the crowd so i pointed out the crowd thought it was much closer fight even though clearly on the tele Mayweather won easily.
Once again, fighting at a new weightclass for the first time does not score you points, once the fight begins the impartial judges can only make their decision on the boxing they witness before them.
You have lost me completey i have never said moving up in weightclass scores you points i was saying that when you move way above your natural weight you won't be as effective that was my whole point.
In all your arguement, you picked at my points, you attempted to sway my beliefs and prove me wrong, but you never once offered me a counter point from the De la Hoya fight to prove Mayweather is not past it or a moment in the DLh fight wher Floyd displayed moments of the sheer brilliance he forged his name on...a couple of years ago.
I think i made plenty of good points all you keep saying is about the judges and how close they scored the fight to support your arguement that Mayweather is past his best when thats not true at all.
Floyd displayed moments of the sheer brilliance
Outboxing Oscar De La Hoya at 154 is sheer brillance standing in one spot and making your opponent miss with 8 punches in a row when your way above your natural weight is sheer brillance.
Re: Mayweather v Hatton will be the biggest AND best fight of 2007!
What point ??
My point was that the judges could not avail of Slow motion Compu box stats or punch counts.
No they didn't but who the hell cares if they did or not ?? your basing your arguement on how close the judges scored the fight to support your arguement so i suppose Whitaker looked past it against Chavez just because the judges had it a draw and it was close in there eyes ??
Im not asking you to give him special treatment but i don't really understand what your saying you have brought up about how close the judges scored the fight to support your arguement that Mayweather is past it when thats total crap because we have the stats and we have slow mo and we have better view of the fight and he made Oscar only landed 21 percent of his punches forgetting what judges scored it we know ourselves so who really cares about the judges ??
Who really cares what the judges think?
Well, I'd say Floyd Mayweather and Oscar De la Hopya cared. I certainly cared seeing as they had the fate and legacies of two great fighters in their hands.
[b]Why does the judges opinion matter ?? they get it wrong most of the time, the reason why i brought up Sosa fight is because you brought up the crowd so i pointed out the crowd thought it was much closer fight even though clearly on the tele Mayweather won easily.[/b]
I brought the judges into it....
Once again, the judges opinion matters because they are the men elected by the relevant sanctioning bodies to analyse and ajudicate the fight. Without the judges it wouldn't be boxing.
aGAIN, DIFFERENCE BETWEEN TELEVISION AND A LIVE FIGHT.
You have lost me completey i have never said moving up in weightclass scores you points i was saying that when you move way above your natural weight you won't be as effective that was my whole point.
You say that of course Mayweather doesn't look as good because it's his first time to figjht at a new weight. Floyd is a professional, it is his duty once he signs the contract to look his best at whatever weight he agrees upon. If he isn't as good up there why would he be there? Because that was as good as Floyd could do that night.
I think i made plenty of good points all you keep saying is about the judges and how close they scored the fight to support your arguement that Mayweather is past his best when thats not true at all.
At this stage we're not even debating about Floyd being past his best as i said you offered no counterpoints u merely tried to discredit mine.
I already stated, that Mayweather looked slower and less effective than before. I brought in the judges because Floyd really needed the last four rounds to win the fight. Had they scored the championship rounds differently, Floyd would not be undefeated.
Outboxing Oscar De La Hoya at 154 is sheer brillance standing in one spot and making your opponent miss with 8 punches in a row when your way above your natural weight is sheer brillance.
Really?
Granted it was good to beat Oscar he's a legend, but that Legend status is based on Foundations built at 147 in the 90's.
So was it really?
Re: Mayweather v Hatton will be the biggest AND best fight of 2007!
Biggest fight of the year? It depends whose fans you ask. Best fight of the year? Not a chance. Styles make fights, and the PBF-Hatton fight has a pretty good chance of turning into a "dancing-posing-clinching-mauling" snoozefest. I hope I'm mistaken. Boxing I'm sure has gained a lot of new fans with the fantastic fights that 2007 has had. I'd like that number to increase even more. We'll see, I guess.
