Re: The weakest weightclass in boxing?
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Originally Posted by killersheep
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Originally Posted by Rob Lewis
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Originally Posted by killersheep
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Originally Posted by Rob Lewis
Once calzaghe leaves SMe that will become rpetty weak, whislt kessler is awsome, the rest form what i have see are nothing to go out of your way for, granted i would liek to see bute more, but kessler will be the only thing @ that weight, maybe bounce back and move up for mikkel
Well Mundine should be coming back, he's definately improved since Kess beat him, as long as that eye problem isn't there he would be up there.
Kessler and Bute are both young and world class. Calzaghe as far as we know may stay at 168. Jean Pascal is quite a talent (and ego) he is up there with Bute. Then you have the pack
Bika
Manfredo Jr.
Berrio
Stieglitz
Green
Miranda
I don't think any of them are at the top level, but they all have something to challenge an up and comer with (except maybe Manfredo)
apart form mikkel i don't rate any of them really
LMW should have spinks, ouma, forrest, baldi (i mean he beat judah) karmizan, much better bunch than the rest at SMW.
How can you not rate Mundine, Bute or Pascal? Put it this way
Top Four guys in the division
168
Calzaghe
Kessler
Mundine
Bute
Pascal (if you take out Calzaghe)
154
Spinks
Baldomir
Ouma (now at 160)
Forrest
really?
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Originally Posted by Fenster
Did you purposely leave out Froch? ;D
I gotta see if Tam is still up ;D
Now sure why you rate Pascal so high. He has not beaten anyone of note. So far he has proven to be more bark than bite.
Re: The weakest weightclass in boxing?
154 is probably the best answer but 140 is close too. Paulie,Ricky and Torres aside,I really have to motivate myself to watch fighters like Ngoujdou,Forbes,D Hop. At 154,I like watching Spinks,Forrest,and good matches can be made with Karmazin,Santos,Martinez etc. For me personally,140 is the weakest.
Re: The weakest weightclass in boxing?
Great points well made Greg...my immediate thought on reading the topic was 154 too. After all, Jamie Moore is 8th, yet he's fighting for the Euro title next...and there aren't any real "name" champions who'll excite fans. CC bro.
Re: The weakest weightclass in boxing?
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Originally Posted by killersheep
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Originally Posted by eagle
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Originally Posted by killersheep
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Originally Posted by BoxingGorilla
Excellent observation, Killer.
For me though, it's the Jr. Welters. I look at that division and go... blah
After Hatton and Witter (who Hatton should be fighting instead of Mayweather) it's a bore. At least for me
Paulie Malinaggi ::**
Vivian Harris :-[
Souleymane M'Baye & Lovemore Ndou :-X
J.L. Castillo & Juan Lazcano :-\
Oh, and Ricardo Torres... >:mad
At least at 140 there are some prospects though
Malignaggi is solid in his own way. D-Hop is the next judges favorite. Gavin Rees is OK. Kendall Holt is still a solid boxer besides getting caught against Torres. Hatton will probably come back down after Dec. 8th. Colin Lynes is showing a lot of promise.
Plus the guys you mentioned are solid gatekeepers.
And lastly the guys at 154 will be getting senior discounts on coffee very soon, lot's of young blood at 140.
Add in Lamont Peterson.
Holy S***, how did I miss him? he was on ESPN every other week. Shoot me in the face for that please.
Victor Ortiz as well!
Re: The weakest weightclass in boxing?
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Originally Posted by killersheep
Which weightclass do you think has the least depth right now?
For me it's currently 154
Look at the title holders
WBA) Joachim Alcine (31), beat Travis Simms in a completely uneventful fight, he was basically handed the belt
WBO) Sergiy Dzinziruk (31), is keeping his title by fighting rookies in Germany
WBC) Vernon Forrest (36), Beat Baldomir for the title that PBF vacated, probably the best thing going at 154
IBF) Cory Spinks (29), boring fighter with great speed, couldn't get the nod at 160 against Taylor, so he's back fighting Verno Philips
on his 20th anniversary of being a pro.
The Contenders
ODLH (34) - we will have to wait until at least May and even then there is no marketable reason for him to fight at 154
Travis Simms (36) - His last outing proved even if you have all the talent in the world, lack of motivation will trump all you try to do
Verno Philips (37) - Definately past his best days, coming up on 20 years as a pro
Baldomechinacal (36) - Hard to not root for the guy, always the underdog and always showing heart, it's just not enough anymore at this level.
Joel Julio (22)- OK here's a decent prospect, my money is that he moves up to 160 within the year. Besides getting schooled on the art of the jab by Quintana and cutting it a little too close with Rivera, he definately has the head movement and power to make waves.
Michele Piccirillo (37) - Opening December by fighting Vernon Forrest, another definate contender, but too little too late IMO his best days are behind him
Roman Karmazin (34) - Lost close decisions to Castillejo and Spinks, the OTHER solid prospect in my opinion
So from all of this what i see is two solid contenders and a couple that are gonna move up or down in weight and the rest are a few fights away from retirement.
What's your opinions?
I thought 154 too. If Mayorga wins tomorrow, he'll likely fight Forrest for the WBC title sometime soon, which is about the only fight in the division that can excite me.
I'd make an argument that Super-Fly is kinda weak too, although Vic moving up makes for more exciting fights. Ring magazine ranks Martin Castillo as the division's #1, and he hasn't got a title, nor has he performed recently. It is better than 154 though.
Also, now that Calderon has moved up, the only fight at minimumweight worth watching would be Condes-Kyowa.
Re: The weakest weightclass in boxing?
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Originally Posted by eagle
I think ICB nailed it on the head when he named Frochs opponents, made up of washed up porn stars and crash test dummies. He may be ranked high by the alphabets but i'd pick any top 5 guy to beat Carl. Calzaghe Kessler Bute Mundine Bika Green, would all school him. Add Taylor and Pavlik soon and Froch will be lucky to be more than a gatekeeper soon. If he was that good they'd have had him in with a tough opponent by now.
If you think it will take a top 5 guy to beat him you rate him top 10, right? So that is sort of in line with the alphabets.
Guess we'll find out if you're right when one of the top 5 guys give a him a chance. ;)
Re: The weakest weightclass in boxing?
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Originally Posted by Fenster
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Originally Posted by eagle
I think ICB nailed it on the head when he named Frochs opponents, made up of washed up porn stars and crash test dummies. He may be ranked high by the alphabets but i'd pick any top 5 guy to beat Carl. Calzaghe Kessler Bute Mundine Bika Green, would all school him. Add Taylor and Pavlik soon and Froch will be lucky to be more than a gatekeeper soon. If he was that good they'd have had him in with a tough opponent by now.
If you think it will take a top 5 guy to beat him you rate him top 10, right? So that is sort of in line with the alphabets.
Guess we'll find out if you're right when one of the top 5 guys give a him a chance. ;)
Methinks he should fight someone in top 25 b4 he tries a top 5 guy. Many agree with me.
Re: The weakest weightclass in boxing?
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Originally Posted by eagle
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Originally Posted by Fenster
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Originally Posted by eagle
I think ICB nailed it on the head when he named Frochs opponents, made up of washed up porn stars and crash test dummies. He may be ranked high by the alphabets but i'd pick any top 5 guy to beat Carl. Calzaghe Kessler Bute Mundine Bika Green, would all school him. Add Taylor and Pavlik soon and Froch will be lucky to be more than a gatekeeper soon. If he was that good they'd have had him in with a tough opponent by now.
If you think it will take a top 5 guy to beat him you rate him top 10, right? So that is sort of in line with the alphabets.
Guess we'll find out if you're right when one of the top 5 guys give a him a chance. ;)
Methinks he should fight someone in top 25 b4 he tries a top 5 guy. Many agree with me.
Can you list the top 25 guys?
Re: The weakest weightclass in boxing?
J Calzaghe
M Kessler
L Bute
A Mundine
D Inkin
S Bika
E Miranda
J Lacy
L Andrade
F Zuniga
A Berrio
A Green
J Pascal
R Stieglitz
V Tsypko
S Soliman
J Spina
A Ward
A Hanshaw
A Dirrel
J P Mendy
J Codrington
M Larsen
S Bozic
P Manfredo
How is that. Beating any of these would be a massive step up for Carl.
Re: The weakest weightclass in boxing?
Come on Fenster it took me ages to do that list. Gonna comment?
Re: The weakest weightclass in boxing?
Hold your horses ;D
Tsypko won an arguable split decision over Brain Magee in Germany. Froch then knocked Magee out.
Earlier this year Bute beat Tatevosyan over 12 rounds. Earlier this year Froch knocked him out in 2 rounds.
I'm sure I could go through plenty of those fighters records and their form wouldn't be any better, probably inferior to Froch's form.
I'm not his biggest fan but i'm pretty sure he'd wipe the floor with half of those guys, and give the rest a decent argument.
Next up he's fighting your 5th man Inkin. So we'll find out just how overrated he is ;)
Re: The weakest weightclass in boxing?
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Originally Posted by Fenster
Hold your horses ;D
Tsypko won an arguable split decision over Brain Magee in Germany. Froch then knocked Magee out.
Earlier this year Bute beat Tatevosyan over 12 rounds. Earlier this year Froch knocked him out in 2 rounds.
I'm sure I could go through plenty of those fighters records and their form wouldn't be any better, probably inferior to Froch's form.
I'm not his biggest fan but i'm pretty sure he'd wipe the floor with half of those guys, and give the rest a decent argument.
Next up he's fighting your 5th man Inkin. So we'll find out just how overrated he is ;)
Bute shut out Tatevosyan, and tho he is 3 years younger than Carl he has wins over Bika and Berrio. i never said Carl wouldnt beat some of these guys i said he hasnt fought anyone but washed up porn stars and crash test dummies which is tru enough.
Froch top 5 now? No Way!!!! In future maybe?
Re: The weakest weightclass in boxing?
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Originally Posted by eagle
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Originally Posted by Fenster
Hold your horses ;D
Tsypko won an arguable split decision over Brain Magee in Germany. Froch then knocked Magee out.
Earlier this year Bute beat Tatevosyan over 12 rounds. Earlier this year Froch knocked him out in 2 rounds.
I'm sure I could go through plenty of those fighters records and their form wouldn't be any better, probably inferior to Froch's form.
I'm not his biggest fan but i'm pretty sure he'd wipe the floor with half of those guys, and give the rest a decent argument.
Next up he's fighting your 5th man Inkin. So we'll find out just how overrated he is ;)
Bute shut out Tatevosyan, and tho he is 3 years younger than Carl he has wins over Bika and Berrio. i never said Carl wouldnt beat some of these guys i said he hasnt fought anyone but washed up porn stars and crash test dummies which is tru enough.
Froch top 5 now? No Way!!!! In future maybe?
I don't think he's top 5 either. But on certain form-lines Froch is a top ranked fighter.
Boxing is a buisness, it's about making money, the fight with the pornstar (Froch looked utter shit IMO) was profitable.
And led to the WBC ordering a final eliminator against Inkin. ;)
Re: The weakest weightclass in boxing?
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Originally Posted by Fenster
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Originally Posted by eagle
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Originally Posted by Fenster
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Originally Posted by eagle
I think ICB nailed it on the head when he named Frochs opponents, made up of washed up porn stars and crash test dummies. He may be ranked high by the alphabets but i'd pick any top 5 guy to beat Carl. Calzaghe Kessler Bute Mundine Bika Green, would all school him. Add Taylor and Pavlik soon and Froch will be lucky to be more than a gatekeeper soon. If he was that good they'd have had him in with a tough opponent by now.
If you think it will take a top 5 guy to beat him you rate him top 10, right? So that is sort of in line with the alphabets.
Guess we'll find out if you're right when one of the top 5 guys give a him a chance. ;)
Methinks he should fight someone in top 25 b4 he tries a top 5 guy. Many agree with me.
Can you list the top 25 guys?
Well i would of but Eagle has already done a list.
Re: The weakest weightclass in boxing?
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Originally Posted by eagle
J Calzaghe
M Kessler
L Bute
A Mundine
D Inkin
S Bika
E Miranda
J Lacy
L Andrade
F Zuniga
A Berrio
A Green
J Pascal
R Stieglitz
V Tsypko
S Soliman
J Spina
A Ward
A Hanshaw
A DirrelJ P Mendy
J Codrington
M Larsen
S Bozic
P Manfredo
How is that. Beating any of these would be a massive step up for Carl.
well i've highlighted the guys i think he would beat handily.
some of the guys i've left out because i don't know enough about them
IMO he has a good chance against berrio and bute.
