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Yea i know that why i think he is lower then the others but he is very accomplished i still asking VD how he thinks PBF is better the Leonard. Because i will probably always think SRL is the better fighter i just like to see what VD is seeing that i seem to miss and hear what he has to say.
....why wouldn't you just compare Floyd to the greats in his weight class?
Why does Ali always have to be brought up? Who gives a crap...he's got his biopic and a bunch of mindnumbed followers touting him as #1 the Greatest of All time without ever thinking "Hey what if he isn't the greatest of all time?" I'm not saying you need to not have him #1 but just think about it for a fucking second before you get caught up in the crowd.
MAIN POINT he doesn't need to be compared to WELTERWEIGHTS and welterweights need not be compared to him, as he was a heavyweight and never came close to being a professional welterweight and therefore is not relevant to this discussion!
If you're going to compare Floyd Mayweather Jr to anyone let's start a list:
Ray Robinson
Ray Leonard
Benny Leonard
Tommy Hearns
Roberto Duran
Emile Griffith
Henry Armstrong
Kid Gavilan
Jimmy McLarnin
Barney Ross
Harry Lewis
Carmen Basilio
Felix Trinidad
Pernell Whittaker
Oscar De la Hoya
Shane Mosley
Joe Gans
Lou Ambers
Beau Jack
Tony Canzonari
discuss
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
Good point...and your right Ali is always mention when comparing greats....I guess the only reason Ali was brought into the mix is the whole P4P thing?
Yet again why i hate pound for pound list because were do you put the Heavyweights then that's why the list is flawed for me at least. I have seen a lot a list and tell one guy i never see in the list i always thought should be mention more is Evander people forget how much more heavier fighters he had to beat form his original 177 pounds and fought guys that were giants that towered over him and weighed 240 pounds now that is pound for pound.
Ray Robinson--Robinson UD
Ray Leonard--Leonard KO
Benny Leonard--Floyd UD
Tommy Hearns--Hearns KO
Roberto Duran--Floyd Dec
Emile Griffith--Griffith Dec
Henry Armstrong--Flloyd Dec
Kid Gavilan--Floyd Dec
Jimmy McLarnin--Floyd Dec
Barney Ross--Floyd Dec
Harry Lewis--Floyd Dec
Carmen Basilio--Carmen TKO
Felix Trinidad--Fl;oyd Dec
Pernell Whittaker--Pernell UD
Oscar De la Hoya--Floyd Dec
Shane Mosley--Floyd Dec...at LW I pick Shand By KO
Joe Gans--Toss Up...I favor Gans though
Lou Ambers--Floyd Dec
Beau JackFloyd Dec
Tony Canzonari--Floyd Dec
I know I did not pick Floyd to win any by KO but IMO all these guys stood the test against harder hitters them PBF so IMO at WW Floyd has limited Power against top caliber comp
Those are some pretty good out comes are we taking in the fact that they fight 12 rounds or how many rounds they fought in the old days Khan. Any way cc i liked a lot of your picks Khan and Lyle you forgot Wilfred Benitez i think would UD over PBf and Khan i am glad i am not the only one that thinks Sugar Ray Leonard could OK PBF and if it was 15 i would really think he could pull it off good list Lyle cc for you as well dude.
all fought in the 15 rd era but DLH, TiTo, Mosley and Whitiker...saome fought with smaller gloves then today as well
Yet another thing about making fights with older fighters because alot has changed since some of the names that were mentioned.
I completely agree that when you stack up who mayweather has beaten against the ATGS there is no comparison. Even some close losing efforts by the ATGS are more significant than many of Mayweathers recent wins.
First of all Ali fought better competition than anybody who has ever lived and has come out on top. In comparision the guys who gave Robinson hard fights were nothing. Lamotta, Basilio, Fulmer ... they were good but they weren't Frazier, Foreman, Patterson, Liston... and Ali did as well or better against some of them than Robinson did against his guys. Look at the win to lose ratio of his opponents and you will see how great he was... I personally believe he right up there with Robinson maybe little behind because he didn't have the same power, but Ali was something special.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
Also who has Carmen Basilio who wasn't a puncher ko'ing Mayweather is nuts. Also why would Mosley be able to ko Mayweather at 135 when Castillo who was a mad puncher at that weight, Oscar Dela Hoya at 154 and Zab Judah at 147 couldn't do it? I think Judah hits as hard as WW MOsley, and he hurt Cotto more than Mosley ever did on a few occasions. Also why would Leonard be able to ko Mayweather yet RObinson wouldn't? Robinson hit like Hearns and he was a better offensive fighter than Leonard. Also Hearns wasn't really able to beat any of the ATG's he fought in their prime, I don't see any reason why he would be able to beat Mayweather. Like Steward said a lot of Hearns' power came from nobody seeing that right hand when it landed because it was too quick, but Leonard who was fast enough to see it was able to handle it, and Mayweather would also be able to handle it. Leonard tried to box on the outside too long against Hearns, and I doubt Mayweather would make that mistake, and I truly believe if he can stun Oscar a few times he can hurt Hearns at WW. Besides these guys I see Henry Armstrong giving Mayweather a tough fight by swarming him, I see Mayweather-Leonard a toss up because look at a slower, less powerful, much less balanced and technically inferior FLoyd Snr's style gave Leonard hard times at certain points, but the difference is that you put a superior athlete into that system and Leonard is in trouble, especially if he can't hurt Mayweather with any one or two punches. I also see Duran being a problem because he was so smart and powerful, but at lightweight he was little more chinny than he was later on as he was ko'ed by a good counter puncher, and Mayweather might not ko him, but he certainly would get Duran's respect, and at 147 Mayweather would outslick Duran in a close fight. I see the only guy really beating Mayweather is Robinson because his jab was longer, he had about equal speed, the height, and that Roy JOnes Jr. like left hook with that Hearns cross and those Meldrick Taylor smooth combinations, but I still see that being a tough fight.
I also see Whitaker being almost a toss up against Mayweather because he is a southpaw, he has good speed and he is hard to hit. HOwever he isn't the same speed which is what made Judah really hard for Mayweather and he doesn't have that punishing power. I see Mayweather coming forward landing that right hand more and more and winning a 3-4 round ud.
Atleast 7 names on the list there are hardly any footage of at Welterweight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daxx Kahn
He has better jab than Judah, and is quick enough to give Mayweather fits i have always said that fight would be called no contest because they would make eachother miss so much.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
i find it difficult to judge any of these matchups against Floyd simply because we haven't seen Floyd in deep water yet and i think he has a lot more in his arsenal than he actually uses.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
As for Ali's comp look on page 2 and it was already established he had better comp and as for my picks that my opp don't like it to bad,,,,
Here is an idea....Instead of just hanging around waiting for peoples post to pick apart make ONE SINGLE OPINION OF YOUR OWN!!!!!
because it seems that as of late your opinions are S*** and all you do is look for other peoples post to find something to say about......
Your a poor mans version of Violent Demise....at least he is amusing....your just annoying.......
Doesn't matter if you agree with what someone says you can't even manage to make an arguement why or why not just talk S*** about how what someone says is stupid...
Half your post you just type for lack of anything better in your life to do
and the response was to Lyle posting about just compare Floyd to other WW fighters of the past....THAT IS WHY ALI WAS NOT MENTIONED IN THE POST BUT IF YOU TOOK YOUR EYES OFF THE GRANNY PORN LONG ENOUGH TO READ THROUGH THE THREAD YOU WOULD KNOW THAT!!!!