Should Richard Steel have stopped the Taylor-Chavez(1990) when he did?VOTE

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Originally Posted by Chino

Interesting that people find controversial for a referee to stop a fight of someone who can't continue. Still, what happened between Chavez vs Taylor 1 has NOTHING to do with bad judgement, it has more to do with the fact that Taylor was winning and there were a few seconds left when the fight was stopped but not because he stopped the fight and Taylor was 100% ready to continue fighting. I am surprised Taylor didn't leave in stretchers.

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Interesting that people find controversial for a referee to stop a fight of someone who can't continue.

Thats your opinion that Taylor couldn't continue not a fact.

what happened between Chavez vs Taylor 1 has NOTHING to do with bad judgement, it has more to do with the fact that Taylor was winning and there were a few seconds left when the fight was stopped but not because he stopped the fight and Taylor was 100% ready to continue fighting. I am surprised Taylor didn't leave in stretchers.

Well thats obvious Taylor was winning the fight easily on points, if the fight would have continued the bell would of rung and Taylor would of won a decision. Taylor did respond to Steele's question, but Steele took matters into his own hands and denied Taylor of winning the fight, because of his bad referring.

I have always been suspicious about this fight i mean how 1 judge could have Chavez winning the fight is ludicrous.

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Thats your opinion that Taylor couldn't continue not a fact.

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A guy that is not able to respond to the simple question twice "are you ok?......ARE YOU OK?!?!" doesn’t really show like he can still take some more punches, huh?

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Well thats obvious Taylor was winning the fight easily on points

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Sure, I won't argue that. He was not damaging Chavez AT ALL but still connecting with some fast punches here and there, good combos, etc.

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if the fight would have continued the bell would of rung and Taylor would of won a decision

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I know, but Taylor got knocked down and couldn’t continue so the fight was stopped unfortunately with a few seconds left.

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Taylor did respond to Steele's question, but Steele took matters into his own hands and denied Taylor of winning the fight, because of his bad referring.

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Look at the video in slow motion and tell me if Taylor is really THERE when he's asked. I don't even think that is considered a nod. But still, referee made the question twice because he was simply not showing any signs of being able to continue (not answering vocally, not in a position physicall to show he could take some more, etc.).

Now I wonder if people would think differently if the fight had, say, a minute left when it was stopped.

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I have always been suspicious about this fight i mean how 1 judge could have Chavez winning the fight is ludicrous.

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Sadly, there are tons of desicinos out there we will not comprehend. I have so many as well: Chavez vs Whitaker (and I like Chavez), De la Hoya vs Trinidad, HolyField vs Lewis I, De La Hoya vs Mayweather, the first two fights between Morales and Barrera, De La Hoya vs Mosley 2, Yasuei Yakushiji vs Joichiro Tatsuyoshi, and so on. I am sure you have your list as well.

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Originally Posted by Chino

Sadly, there are tons of desicinos out there we will not comprehend. I have so many as well: Chavez vs Whitaker (and I like Chavez), De la Hoya vs Trinidad, HolyField vs Lewis I, De La Hoya vs Mayweather, the first two fights between Morales and Barrera, De La Hoya vs Mosley 2, Yasuei Yakushiji vs Joichiro Tatsuyoshi, and so on. I am sure you have your list as well.

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you and one other person on this forum ::** your gonna tell me you honestly think DLH beat Mayweather ???

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Originally Posted by Chino

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Thats your opinion that Taylor couldn't continue not a fact.

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A guy that is not able to respond to the simple question twice "are you ok?......ARE YOU OK?!?!" doesn’t really show like he can still take some more punches, huh?

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Well thats obvious Taylor was winning the fight easily on points

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Sure, I won't argue that. He was not damaging Chavez AT ALL but still connecting with some fast punches here and there, good combos, etc.

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if the fight would have continued the bell would of rung and Taylor would of won a decision

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I know, but Taylor got knocked down and couldn’t continue so the fight was stopped unfortunately with a few seconds left.

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Taylor did respond to Steele's question, but Steele took matters into his own hands and denied Taylor of winning the fight, because of his bad referring.

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Look at the video in slow motion and tell me if Taylor is really THERE when he's asked. I don't even think that is considered a nod. But still, referee made the question twice because he was simply not showing any signs of being able to continue (not answering vocally, not in a position physicall to show he could take some more, etc.).

Now I wonder if people would think differently if the fight had, say, a minute left when it was stopped.

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I have always been suspicious about this fight i mean how 1 judge could have Chavez winning the fight is ludicrous.

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Sadly, there are tons of desicinos out there we will not comprehend. I have so many as well: Chavez vs Whitaker (and I like Chavez), De la Hoya vs Trinidad, HolyField vs Lewis I, De La Hoya vs Mayweather, the first two fights between Morales and Barrera, De La Hoya vs Mosley 2, Yasuei Yakushiji vs Joichiro Tatsuyoshi, and so on. I am sure you have your list as well.

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A guy that is not able to respond to the simple question twice "are you ok?......ARE YOU OK?!?!" doesn’t really show like he can still take some more punches, huh?

Well you think different than me on this matter, but Taylor did nod his head to Steele. IMO that is enough evidence to let Taylor go on. Taylor was hurting and he didn't have much left and he was fading fast, but Taylor got himself up responded to the ref, and every champion deserves a chance to go on but thats my opinion anyway.

Sure, I won't argue that. He was not damaging Chavez AT ALL but still connecting with some fast punches here and there, good combos, etc.

Chavez was landing the much harder blows i heard the sound of them they were very damaging blows, but points wise Taylor was a mile ahead plus Taylor was out landing Chavez 2 to 1, and he was beating Chavez on the outside and inside.

I know, but Taylor got knocked down and couldn’t continue so the fight was stopped unfortunately with a few seconds left.

Taylor got knocked down but got up like a true champion and responded to Steele, just look at Taylor's expression when the fight was stopped he was heart broken he couldn't believe it.

look at the video in slow motion and tell me if Taylor is really THERE when he's asked. I don't even think that is considered a nod.

Taylor was still very much there, he turned around and even looked at his corner so he still had his bearings.

But still, referee made the question twice because he was simply not showing any signs of being able to continue (not answering vocally, not in a position physicall to show he could take some more, etc.).

To be honest Steele didn't even give Taylor a chance to respond a 2nd time, he see Taylor was looking at his corner, and just when Taylor turned to Steele he waved it off immediately not giving Taylor a chance what so ever.

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Originally Posted by JT Rock

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Originally Posted by Chino

Sadly, there are tons of desicinos out there we will not comprehend. I have so many as well: Chavez vs Whitaker (and I like Chavez), De la Hoya vs Trinidad, HolyField vs Lewis I, De La Hoya vs Mayweather, the first two fights between Morales and Barrera, De La Hoya vs Mosley 2, Yasuei Yakushiji vs Joichiro Tatsuyoshi, and so on. I am sure you have your list as well.

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you and one other person on this forum ::** your gonna tell me you honestly think DLH beat Mayweather ???

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I had Mayweather winning by 4 or 3 rounds, if some people would watch the fight closely, it really isn't that close at all, Oscar's flurries were not effective. Mayweather was landing the much cleaner, sharper blows.

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Originally Posted by The Rookie Fan

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Originally Posted by BoomBoom

The referee is not the timekeeper. It was an unfortunate stoppage, but not a bad one.

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This is the hart of the argument right there. Time is not the issue if we are going to judge Richard Steel's call. He said it himself, it is not his job to look at the clock. If you think it was a bad call because you felt Taylor could continue fighting (and I mean fighting not just stand without assistance) than I have no problem with that, though I can't see how you could be in a better possition to make that judgement than Steel was.

However, if you think it was a bad call bassed only on the fact that there were 2 secconds left than IMO your argument is irrelavent to the discussion. You can't say Steel made a bad call and base it on something that Steel had no control, knowledge or responsability over.

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Your telling me Richard Steele who has ref'd hundreds of fights doesnt have the feel for how long a round is??? In that clip he even says Chavez started to come on in the last 25 seconds. If he didnt know that round was almost over he shouldnt be refereeing a championship fight!

Ok Chino you misquoted and misunderstood me. You dont have to say I am alright a head nod is enough. I never saw Steele give him the chance to come forward he just corraled him in the corner and stopped it, look at Taylor look as he stopped it does that look like a man that doesnt want to go on?

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you and one other person on this forum your gonna tell me you honestly think DLH beat Mayweather

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There's a reason why it even went to a split decision. I suppose you are also 100% sure that Mayweather beat Castillo on their first encounter, right?

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Chavez was landing the much harder blows i heard the sound of them they were very damaging blows, but points wise Taylor was a mile ahead plus Taylor was out landing Chavez 2 to 1, and he was beating Chavez on the outside and inside.

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I know. Punches were raining over Chavez. Good fast combos from Taylor. Chavez landind the more effective damaging punches but Taylor scoring more points.

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Taylor got knocked down but got up like a true champion and responded to Steele, just look at Taylor's expression when the fight was stopped he was heart broken he couldn't believe it.

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Anyone who looses will have that look. What I see is Taylor with a facial expression of not knowing what hit him when Steele was asking him twice if he was ok. Instead of nodding I see Taylor just trying to follow Steele with his eyes. If I was Taylor I would at least do what most boxers do to show they are fine: firm boxers stance, walk towards the referee determined, raise their hands, vocally say they are fine, walk back and forth as the referee is counting, jumping, and so on. Taylor couldn't do any of those.

Look at the video in slow motion and tell me if Taylor is really THERE when he's asked. I don't even think that is considered a nod.

Wrong! He nodded looked at Lou, then nodded again you watching the same clip bro?

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Originally Posted by Chino

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you and one other person on this forum your gonna tell me you honestly think DLH beat Mayweather

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There's a reason why it even went to a split decision. I suppose you are also 100% sure that Mayweather beat Castillo on their first encounter, right?

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Chavez was landing the much harder blows i heard the sound of them they were very damaging blows, but points wise Taylor was a mile ahead plus Taylor was out landing Chavez 2 to 1, and he was beating Chavez on the outside and inside.

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I know. Punches were raining over Chavez. Good fast combos from Taylor. Chavez landind the more effective damaging punches but Taylor scoring more points.

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Taylor got knocked down but got up like a true champion and responded to Steele, just look at Taylor's expression when the fight was stopped he was heart broken he couldn't believe it.

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Anyone who looses will have that look. What I see is Taylor with a facial expression of not knowing what hit him when Steele was asking him twice if he was ok. Instead of nodding I see Taylor just trying to follow Steele with his eyes. If I was Taylor I would at least do what most boxers do to show they are fine: firm boxers stance, walk towards the referee determined, raise their hands, vocally say they are fine, walk back and forth as the referee is counting, jumping, and so on. Taylor couldn't do any of those.

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There's a reason why it even went to a split decision. I suppose you are also 100% sure that Mayweather beat Castillo on their first encounter, right?

Oh come on bro just because 1 judge got it completely wrong doesn't mean it was close. Only 2 people on this forum even think this fight was even debatable and thats you and another member called Pacdog. After 9 rounds the fight was close but Mayweather pulled away and won too many of the later rounds, i really can't see how anyone could have Oscar winning that fight, if you watch it closely and see how many of Oscar's flurries were effective. And actually see how many were landing.

I suppose you are also 100% sure that Mayweather beat Castillo on their first encounter, right?

Nothing wrong in thinking Mayweather won 1st Castillo fight, it could of gone either way. But thats completely different to the Oscar De La Hoya fight.

As for your last comment No Contest already done a fine job of answering that so there is no need for me to answer it.

I think he shouldn't have stopped it because there were like 2 seconds of the round left and by the time chavez reached taylor the bell would have sounded and taylor would be a happy man :)

But it can be argued that what if chavez hit him with some heavy shots in them last few seconds and did more damage to his brain than he already had, what state would taylor be in now?

Steele could see a few things...

1. Lou Duva was on the apron and distracted Taylor....Causing a delay in answering the questions if he was OK

2. Steele failed to do his job by not paying attention to the lights in the corner and the fact they were flashing.../showing less then 10 seconds of the bout

If you arguement is that he was taking too much punishment, thats lame because he already had the damage done by that time that one right didnt ruin Taylor....

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Originally Posted by No Contest

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Originally Posted by The Rookie Fan

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Originally Posted by BoomBoom

The referee is not the timekeeper. It was an unfortunate stoppage, but not a bad one.

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This is the hart of the argument right there. Time is not the issue if we are going to judge Richard Steel's call. He said it himself, it is not his job to look at the clock. If you think it was a bad call because you felt Taylor could continue fighting (and I mean fighting not just stand without assistance) than I have no problem with that, though I can't see how you could be in a better possition to make that judgement than Steel was.

However, if you think it was a bad call bassed only on the fact that there were 2 secconds left than IMO your argument is irrelavent to the discussion. You can't say Steel made a bad call and base it on something that Steel had no control, knowledge or responsability over.

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Your telling me Richard Steele who has ref'd hundreds of fights doesnt have the feel for how long a round is??? In that clip he even says Chavez started to come on in the last 25 seconds. If he didnt know that round was almost over he shouldnt be refereeing a championship fight!

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He probably does, but thats irrelevant. That shouldnt be part of the the process of deciding whether or not to stop a fight. The ref has to make split second decisions and the only thing on his mind was the welfare of the fighter, not the verdict of the fight. I understand why some people dont agree with how the fight ended up, but you can blame Steele, you can blame Duva, and you can blame Taylor too because they all did things that may have changed the oucome of the fight. Again, It was just an unfortunate ending to a fight.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

It was a completely bullshit stoppage imo.

What's so ironic about it though is that some people attempt to justify it on humane grounds and say it's the referee's job to protect a fighter from harm, but it was prescisely this bullshit stoppage that ruined Meldrick Taylor, led to himm fighting on too long and becoming a cruel victim of the sport sufferinf from brain damage in later life.

Chances are if Taylor would have won that fight he would have been satisfied and not continued on as long as he did.

Steele ruined Taylor.

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To say that this 1 fight ruined Taylors life is a bit silly.He would of ended up like he has because some fighters dont know when to quit.

Example-Hollyfield,Ali to name 2.Both have had amazing wins but both fought past there prime by a long way.