Nose Guards?

I'll chime in with what is just a personal belief and as such has no affect on this debate.

While sparring without headgear I find my defense to be a lot sharper. I don not feel that this is a result of the headgear increasing my confidence, I feel it is subconcious....Without the headgear, I feel more aware. I have better vision and a better sense of my opponents resence. With the headgear I look one way; straight forward. Without my eyes are allowed to dart and look for tells. I'll check his hands, his shoulder, even his knee to see if he intends to step in. I feel headgear limits all this.

However, I feel that we are missing one great benefit of headgear (I mentioned it earlier and Thomas acknowledged.) Last Monday while sparring I was caught wioth an extremely hard looping right hand. However it landed on the lower part of the rear of my head. I frooze. I don't think it was intentional but three more straight rights to my face were landed before I had the sense to say "hold on a second I'm stunned." I was wearing headgear and I dread to think the result had I not been. It pained me for quite a while and I was grateful then for headgear.

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

If your peripheral vision is so piss poor that you cant see around a head guard,try tennis
Because every other potential contact sport involves some form of head gear
And repetive concussion syndrom is the reason
Hockey,baseball,football,all involve headgear
And guys being able to complete a sentence have gone up in retirement,before that,if you got something aproaching coherent they were having a "good day"
Get your head around it,most of the guys who didnt use gear died young,or developed serious drug habits,or both
Why do you think they were using heroin?Strictly because they where low lifes Im assuming you assumed,no, it made the headaches go away

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Maybe I should start taking heroin instead of trying some light sparring without headgear? Sounds like a good option. I didn't say my peripheral vision is bad i said that with the more padded head gear i don't find a difference in loss of peripheral vision compared to the "open face" headgear. When I said about not being used to having peripheral vision it was a joke. I've never been KO'd and only had 1 TKO and that was when I was young ( 17 I think) in a Karate thing um Kumite i think it was called. No head gear a small pad on each knuckle no mouthpiece nothing. The guy was at my school, a year older and 3rd in the world in the open division. Thankfully it was a kick to the ribs not the head. I've had worse injuries from mountain bike riding than boxing or fighting. Maybe since your ability to comprehend and spell is so piss poor you may have this "repetive concussion concussion syndrom" you talk of. Perhaps tennis might be a better option for you dude.

Whoa! Cool it down fella's! Of all the boards this is the one that we don't need any bickering or fighting on. This is the training section it's symbiotic and we all need to get along in order for it to work!

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

I'll chime in with what is just a personal belief and as such has no affect on this debate.

While sparring without headgear I find my defense to be a lot sharper. I don not feel that this is a result of the headgear increasing my confidence, I feel it is subconcious....Without the headgear, I feel more aware. I have better vision and a better sense of my opponents resence. With the headgear I look one way; straight forward. Without my eyes are allowed to dart and look for tells. I'll check his hands, his shoulder, even his knee to see if he intends to step in. I feel headgear limits all this.

However, I feel that we are missing one great benefit of headgear (I mentioned it earlier and Thomas acknowledged.) Last Monday while sparring I was caught wioth an extremely hard looping right hand. However it landed on the lower part of the rear of my head. I frooze. I don't think it was intentional but three more straight rights to my face were landed before I had the sense to say "hold on a second I'm stunned." I was wearing headgear and I dread to think the result had I not been. It pained me for quite a while and I was grateful then for headgear.

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Yeah that's a great point. I was just however thinking about some light sparring without it as a trial to see if i notice a big difference. It wouldn't be a problem. There's a big guy at the gym (120kgs) who doesnt wear headgear and often no mouthpiece. He hits very very hard. Has a lot of experience and is pretty skilled, well compared to me. Anyhow he had a bit of a problem sparring an experienced 72kg southpaw who punched his tooth through his lip because he was wearing no mouthpiece. Stitches resulted.

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

Whoa! Cool it down fella's! Of all the boards this is the one that we don't need any bickering or fighting on. This is the training section it's symbiotic and we all need to get along in order for it to work!

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Ok fair point i'll leave it be.

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Originally Posted by bikersk

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

Whoa! Cool it down fella's! Of all the boards this is the one that we don't need any bickering or fighting on. This is the training section it's symbiotic and we all need to get along in order for it to work!

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Ok fair point i'll leave it be.

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CC man, moving on...How long have you been boxing biker?

Thanks hitmandonny cc back. Well as a kid I loved boxing and started training around 14 or 15 i guess. Trained a lot but never did much though and only did that karate thing and some other MMA stuff i guess but not like it is now. I mostly did boxing training but a kick boxer trained me and my brother for a while. He helps train a guy here called the "Preacher" now who has or had Aus title had in Muay Thai i think. Have pretty much trained on and off, i'm 37 now and just got back into it this year (oops last year it's 08 now DOH). Im satisfied with training and sparring unless there is someone else around here as old and silly as me wants to.....

Um wasn't this thread about nose guards?

As a good referee says to the two boxer's, let's keep it professional. :) This isn't the place for pissing contents and flaring each other.

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

I'll chime in with what is just a personal belief and as such has no affect on this debate.

While sparring without headgear I find my defense to be a lot sharper. I don not feel that this is a result of the headgear increasing my confidence, I feel it is subconcious....Without the headgear, I feel more aware. I have better vision and a better sense of my opponents resence. With the headgear I look one way; straight forward. Without my eyes are allowed to dart and look for tells. I'll check his hands, his shoulder, even his knee to see if he intends to step in. I feel headgear limits all this.

However, I feel that we are missing one great benefit of headgear (I mentioned it earlier and Thomas acknowledged.) Last Monday while sparring I was caught wioth an extremely hard looping right hand. However it landed on the lower part of the rear of my head. I frooze. I don't think it was intentional but three more straight rights to my face were landed before I had the sense to say "hold on a second I'm stunned." I was wearing headgear and I dread to think the result had I not been. It pained me for quite a while and I was grateful then for headgear.

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Good points donny, and I think I know what you mean. I've had a couple times where I got caught a punch square onto my ear and and wished I was a little smarter, or at least had that wonderful feature of the head gear to protect my ears. If you haven't been hit square onto your ear, the feeling can be likened to a moment being so deep underwater that you feel an intense stabbing pain in your ears, along with the ringing that goes with it.

I think that head gear should not make up for the lack of defense for a fighter, or hinder a fighter's vision or boxing abilities.

A larger piece of head gear may perhaps take some of the power off of a punch, but if it's consequence of its construction that the fighter is getting hit more, then it defeats it's own purpose of protecting the fighter.

I think that you'd agree with me that the headgear should retain a degree of protection such as the case in point from your own experience. However it should offer protection without becoming a disadvantage and a potential liability of getting hit more.

Chris N. The Joe Louis thing wasn't a fight but a documentary on ESPN i think. They showed loads of Joes fights and he used that style you mentioned quite a bit. He was quite a bit slower with the head movement in his comeback though.

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Originally Posted by bikersk

Thanks hitmandonny cc back. Well as a kid I loved boxing and started training around 14 or 15 i guess. Trained a lot but never did much though and only did that karate thing and some other MMA stuff i guess but not like it is now. I mostly did boxing training but a kick boxer trained me and my brother for a while. He helps train a guy here called the "Preacher" now who has or had Aus title had in Muay Thai i think. Have pretty much trained on and off, i'm 37 now and just got back into it this year (oops last year it's 08 now DOH). Im satisfied with training and sparring unless there is someone else around here as old and silly as me wants to.....
Um wasn't this thread about nose guards?

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Cool! I certainly hope that I remain as enthralled and enthusiastic about the sport for as long a time as you have! And you've obviously taken care of yourself and trained sensibly If you're still able to giev it socks in sparring! Well done mate!

Chris:
I too have been hit in the ear (and had unsightly bruising swell it up on occasion!) It's a horrible blow, but it can actually be incredibly bad for balance. The underwater feeling is a resultant of fluid in the ears inner canals traveling much faster than it should and balance being affected. (Thats the general theory, it's been a long time since I did Biology.)

I alos agree that headgear can be a liability. When the headgear is strapped to the head, I question it's shock absorption as the head and guard will move as one. However I do feel it benefits itself in forming a barrier around softer tissue at the ears rear of the head and upper neck. I don't know if I explained it well....Getting hit in the back of the head/ear/neck still hurts and the shock remains the same but since the guard is in the way the softer tissue is prevented from trauma and bruising...Does that make any sense at all?

That actually makes perfect sense don. Getting hit in any of those spots is bad to say the least. I also like the medical aspect of what happens as a result of a blow to a particular trouble spot. On that vein, I remember 5 years ago Andre mentioned a blow to the side of the neck at a 45 degree angle is a potential knockout blow that disrupts bloodflow to the brain. Of all the things to remember. :D

Getting back to the topic at hand, head gear is not much of a shock absorber. A good punch to the head will cause the brain to crash from one side of the skull to the other. Agreeing with what Thomas said earlier, even normal punches can cause a mild concussion, head gear has very little say in that. But if the head gear allows a fighter to go on unhindered while protecting their facial features and vulnerable spots, then a fighter will be much better off in the long run.

I found those Joe Louis fights I was referring to Chris N. I had a Joe fest the other week and watched Louis v King Levinsky Louis V Baer Louis v scmelling II Louis V Charles. The style you mentioned is obvious there. Just found them on the laptop.

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t...4/johnson7.jpg

Here's another picture that you might like. I wish I could download his fights, but it's tough when your download speed is 5kbs.

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Originally Posted by bikersk

Thanks hitmandonny cc back. Well as a kid I loved boxing and started training around 14 or 15 i guess. Trained a lot but never did much though and only did that karate thing and some other MMA stuff i guess but not like it is now. I mostly did boxing training but a kick boxer trained me and my brother for a while. He helps train a guy here called the "Preacher" now who has or had Aus title had in Muay Thai i think. Have pretty much trained on and off, i'm 37 now and just got back into it this year (oops last year it's 08 now DOH). Im satisfied with training and sparring unless there is someone else around here as old and silly as me wants to.....

Um wasn't this thread about nose guards?

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The original point was that you could get by in full sparring without anything but a nose guard
My point back was that you run a risk of repeat concussions that way,and if that does happen it turns up on your MRI's,and then you arent getting a liscence,which kind of defies that point of sparring doesnt it?

a nose guard could likely be worn in conjunction with open-face headgear. The kind without cheek pads. It could also likely be worn with wrestlers ear protectors to stop ear injuries.

http://www.wrestlinggear.com/images/...lack-large.jpg