Re: Sugar Ray Leonard:why do some hate him/think he was over rated?
Sam langford is not above Ray in pound for pound and if you argue the fight with Duran then let me ask you this how you think the first one would of went if Ray boxed. As for Pryor you over rate the man and give me a article of Ray saying he ducked him or never fight him and i will believe you.  Pryor competion was alright not great think you overrate him because you are a fan Pryor was good Leonard was a level above and his wins and career speak for him i don't have to.
Re: Sugar Ray Leonard:why do some hate him/think he was over rated?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
Sam langford is not above Ray in pound for pound and if you argue the fight with Duran then let me ask you this how you think the first one would of went if Ray boxed. As for Pryor you over rate the man and give me a article of Ray saying he ducked him or never fight him and i will believe you. Pryor competion was alright not great think you overrate him because you are a fan Pryor was good Leonard was a level above and his wins and career speak for him i don't have to.
Langford fought at Lightweight all the way up to Heavyweight beating great fighters, and had one of the best records of all time. So i think Langford is well ahead of Leonard in All Time P4P rankings without a doubt in my mind.
I don't overrate Pryor at all its a fact Leonard avoided Pryor in the Amateurs Leonard moved up a weight class to avoid Pryor, and in the pro's Pryor also called Leonard out at a press conference but yet again Leonard dismissed his challenge i wonder why ??
We aren't talking about there accomplishments we are talking about Leonard avoiding Aaron Pryor. Pryor was ducked quite a lot in his career plus his division wasn't filled with great names, that isn't his fault but he is still one of the best Jr Welterweights of all time.
Who knows if Duran could of beat Leonard in the 1st fight if Leonard boxed ?? all i know is that the 2nd fight was very close when Duran quit with stomach cramps. But what you must realize is that Duran come into that fight poorly conditioned, even Duran's team wanted to pull out of the fight. He had to lose 50+ pounds in a very short time so he was very weight drained and his training sessions were poor.
Re: Sugar Ray Leonard:why do some hate him/think he was over rated?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Cold Boxing
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
Sam langford is not above Ray in pound for pound and if you argue the fight with Duran then let me ask you this how you think the first one would of went if Ray boxed. As for Pryor you over rate the man and give me a article of Ray saying he ducked him or never fight him and i will believe you. Pryor competion was alright not great think you overrate him because you are a fan Pryor was good Leonard was a level above and his wins and career speak for him i don't have to.
Langford fought at Lightweight all the way up to Heavyweight beating great fighters, and had one of the best records of all time. So i think Langford is well ahead of Leonard in All Time P4P rankings without a doubt in my mind.
I don't overrate Pryor at all its a fact Leonard avoided Pryor in the Amateurs Leonard moved up a weight class to avoid Pryor, and in the pro's Pryor also called Leonard out at a press conference but yet again Leonard dismissed his challenge i wonder why ??
We aren't talking about there accomplishments we are talking about Leonard avoiding Aaron Pryor. Pryor was ducked quite a lot in his career plus his division wasn't filled with great names, that isn't his fault but he is still one of the best Jr Welterweights of all time.
Who knows if Duran could of beat Leonard in the 1st fight if Leonard boxed ?? all i know is that the 2nd fight was very close when Duran quit with stomach cramps. But what you must realize is that Duran come into that fight poorly conditioned, even Duran's team wanted to pull out of the fight. He had to lose 50+ pounds in a very short time so he was very weight drained and his training sessions were poor.
I never heard of this fellow Sam Langford? . you pulling out the history books on us iceman :laugh: ? My opinion is Pryor made some mistakes technically that a fighter like Ray would have likely capitalized on . Mainly being AP’s chin sticking out high and dry all the time .
Re: Sugar Ray Leonard:why do some hate him/think he was over rated?
I agree with him above me
Re: Sugar Ray Leonard:why do some hate him/think he was over rated?
i'm one of the many who feel he shouldn't have got the nod over haglar, he did lose the rematch to hearns but the hitman got robbed.................. i didnt like the showboat stuff it made a mockary of the fights because he over did it.............. he was a runner even more so then roy jones, and he talks crap on the contender most of the time he's to wooden to be a anchor man on the show
Re: Sugar Ray Leonard:why do some hate him/think he was over rated?
How many fights have you seen on Langford just to ask before you make any calls on him.
Re: Sugar Ray Leonard:why do some hate him/think he was over rated?
Sugar Ray Leonard was a magnificent fighter who was driven by ego - so to say he ducked anybody in his prime is a joke. You don't fight an undefeated Thomas Hearns in his prime but are somehow scared to fight others. ::**
He lost the rematch to Hearns IMO but both were past it and it holds no real value on their legacies.
I thought he lost to Hagler at the time but I was 10 then and since growing up and watching it I have no qualms with the decision. Both fighters were faded and Hagler in particular was just too slow and hardly landed many decent punches.
Leonard won the rematch with Duran fair and square - Duran quit. The 3rd fight was pointless.
Leonard's speed, reflex's and his venom made him a truly great fighter. He had a great chin to go with the flair. Sure he was cocky but he had the ability to back it up.
Hearns was a nasty son of a bitch when he had people hurt but Leonard was pure evil when the killer instinct kicked in.
Re: Sugar Ray Leonard:why do some hate him/think he was over rated?
Quote:
Originally Posted by nuclear bull
i'm one of the many who feel he shouldn't have got the nod over haglar, he did lose the rematch to hearns but the hitman got robbed.................. i didnt like the showboat stuff it made a mockary of the fights because he over did it.............. he was a runner even more so then roy jones, and he talks crap on the contender most of the time he's to wooden to be a anchor man on the show
What about his fights when he was actually in his prime? Not when he was faded and fighting at a higher weight than his prime. Your judging him on the old Sugar Ray - try looking at his whole career.
Re: Sugar Ray Leonard:why do some hate him/think he was over rated?
Quote:
Originally Posted by WelshDevilRob
Sugar Ray Leonard was a magnificent fighter who was driven by ego - so to say he ducked anybody in his prime is a joke. You don't fight an undefeated Thomas Hearns in his prime but are somehow scared to fight others. ::**
He lost the rematch to Hearns IMO but both were past it and it holds no real value on their legacies.
I thought he lost to Hagler at the time but I was 10 then and since growing up and watching it I have no qualms with the decision. Both fighters were faded and Hagler in particular was just too slow and hardly landed many decent punches.
Leonard won the rematch with Duran fair and square - Duran quit. The 3rd fight was pointless.
Leonard's speed, reflex's and his venom made him a truly great fighter. He had a great chin to go with the flair. Sure he was cocky but he had the ability to back it up.
Hearns was a nasty son of a bitch when he had people hurt but Leonard was pure evil when the killer instinct kicked in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WelshDevilRob
so to say he ducked anybody in his prime is a joke.
If its such a joke explain why Leonard moved up a weight in the Amateurs to avoid fighting Pryor ?? also explain when Pryor called Leonard out in a press conference why Leonard dismissed Pryor's challenge if he wasn't avoiding Pryor ??
Re: Sugar Ray Leonard:why do some hate him/think he was over rated?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Cold Boxing
Quote:
Originally Posted by WelshDevilRob
Sugar Ray Leonard was a magnificent fighter who was driven by ego - so to say he ducked anybody in his prime is a joke. You don't fight an undefeated Thomas Hearns in his prime but are somehow scared to fight others. ::**
He lost the rematch to Hearns IMO but both were past it and it holds no real value on their legacies.
I thought he lost to Hagler at the time but I was 10 then and since growing up and watching it I have no qualms with the decision. Both fighters were faded and Hagler in particular was just too slow and hardly landed many decent punches.
Leonard won the rematch with Duran fair and square - Duran quit. The 3rd fight was pointless.
Leonard's speed, reflex's and his venom made him a truly great fighter. He had a great chin to go with the flair. Sure he was cocky but he had the ability to back it up.
Hearns was a nasty son of a bitch when he had people hurt but Leonard was pure evil when the killer instinct kicked in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WelshDevilRob
so to say he ducked anybody in his prime is a joke.
If its such a joke explain why Leonard moved up a weight in the Amateurs to avoid fighting Pryor ?? also explain when Pryor called Leonard out in a press conference why Leonard dismissed Pryor's challenge if he wasn't avoiding Pryor ??
You rekon Pryor beats Leonard at 147? Honestly?
Re: Sugar Ray Leonard:why do some hate him/think he was over rated?
Aaron Pryor was a really good fighter, but from what I've seen of Pryor... Ray Leonard had nothing to worry about.
Re: Sugar Ray Leonard:why do some hate him/think he was over rated?
Quote:
Originally Posted by cockey cockney
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Cold Boxing
Quote:
Originally Posted by WelshDevilRob
Sugar Ray Leonard was a magnificent fighter who was driven by ego - so to say he ducked anybody in his prime is a joke. You don't fight an undefeated Thomas Hearns in his prime but are somehow scared to fight others. ::**
He lost the rematch to Hearns IMO but both were past it and it holds no real value on their legacies.
I thought he lost to Hagler at the time but I was 10 then and since growing up and watching it I have no qualms with the decision. Both fighters were faded and Hagler in particular was just too slow and hardly landed many decent punches.
Leonard won the rematch with Duran fair and square - Duran quit. The 3rd fight was pointless.
Leonard's speed, reflex's and his venom made him a truly great fighter. He had a great chin to go with the flair. Sure he was cocky but he had the ability to back it up.
Hearns was a nasty son of a bitch when he had people hurt but Leonard was pure evil when the killer instinct kicked in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WelshDevilRob
so to say he ducked anybody in his prime is a joke.
If its such a joke explain why Leonard moved up a weight in the Amateurs to avoid fighting Pryor ?? also explain when Pryor called Leonard out in a press conference why Leonard dismissed Pryor's challenge if he wasn't avoiding Pryor ??
You rekon Pryor beats Leonard at 147? Honestly?
I don't know because both men have never met anyone like each other before, obviously the favorite would be Leonard and if i had to choose i would pick Leonard by close decision with both men getting dropped in the fight. I think people are getting the wrong impression of me on this subject, i don't hate Leonard i think he is one of the most skilled boxers in the history of the sport, but i believe he did avoid Pryor but like i have said before every great fighter has avoided a fighter even Sugar Ray Robinson avoided Charley Burley, and he is considered the best boxer in the history of the boxing.
In the end Leonard beat some great fighters and did achieve a lot in his career even with his long lay offs. He also had a few questionable decision's and a few question marks on his overall career but so does every boxer, you could break down anyones record and say its questionable/overrated etc. Overall great fighter, great heart, great speed, flashy, underrated power, amazing foot work, one of the best Welterweights of all time.
Re: Sugar Ray Leonard:why do some hate him/think he was over rated?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Cold Boxing
Quote:
Originally Posted by cockey cockney
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Cold Boxing
Quote:
Originally Posted by WelshDevilRob
Sugar Ray Leonard was a magnificent fighter who was driven by ego - so to say he ducked anybody in his prime is a joke. You don't fight an undefeated Thomas Hearns in his prime but are somehow scared to fight others. ::**
He lost the rematch to Hearns IMO but both were past it and it holds no real value on their legacies.
I thought he lost to Hagler at the time but I was 10 then and since growing up and watching it I have no qualms with the decision. Both fighters were faded and Hagler in particular was just too slow and hardly landed many decent punches.
Leonard won the rematch with Duran fair and square - Duran quit. The 3rd fight was pointless.
Leonard's speed, reflex's and his venom made him a truly great fighter. He had a great chin to go with the flair. Sure he was cocky but he had the ability to back it up.
Hearns was a nasty son of a bitch when he had people hurt but Leonard was pure evil when the killer instinct kicked in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WelshDevilRob
so to say he ducked anybody in his prime is a joke.
If its such a joke explain why Leonard moved up a weight in the Amateurs to avoid fighting Pryor ?? also explain when Pryor called Leonard out in a press conference why Leonard dismissed Pryor's challenge if he wasn't avoiding Pryor ??
You rekon Pryor beats Leonard at 147? Honestly?
I don't know because both men have never met anyone like each other before, obviously the favorite would be Leonard and if i had to choose i would pick Leonard by close decision with both men getting dropped in the fight. I think people are getting the wrong impression of me on this subject, i don't hate Leonard i think he is one of the most skilled boxers in the history of the sport, but i believe he did avoid Pryor but like i have said before every great fighter has avoided a fighter even Sugar Ray Robinson avoided Charley Burley, and he is considered the best boxer in the history of the boxing.
In the end Leonard beat some great fighters and did achieve a lot in his career even with his long lay offs. He also had a few questionable decision's and a few question marks on his overall career but so does every boxer, you could break down anyones record and say its questionable/overrated etc. Overall great fighter, great heart, great speed, flashy, underrated power, amazing foot work, one of the best Welterweights of all time.
fair play there bruva....:coolclick: i think it was a timing thing more then anything else. SRL searched for a combination of the hardest challenges with the biggest pay days and when he took on hearns this was by far the most challenging and financially rewarding fight out there. And striaght after this he then retired and it took a middleweight king who was beating everyone left, right and centre to get him out of this retirement, which we all know was a HUGE challenge and wudda no doubt made him a mint!
Re: Sugar Ray Leonard:why do some hate him/think he was over rated?
Quote:
Originally Posted by cockey cockney
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Cold Boxing
Quote:
Originally Posted by cockey cockney
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Cold Boxing
Quote:
Originally Posted by WelshDevilRob
Sugar Ray Leonard was a magnificent fighter who was driven by ego - so to say he ducked anybody in his prime is a joke. You don't fight an undefeated Thomas Hearns in his prime but are somehow scared to fight others. ::**
He lost the rematch to Hearns IMO but both were past it and it holds no real value on their legacies.
I thought he lost to Hagler at the time but I was 10 then and since growing up and watching it I have no qualms with the decision. Both fighters were faded and Hagler in particular was just too slow and hardly landed many decent punches.
Leonard won the rematch with Duran fair and square - Duran quit. The 3rd fight was pointless.
Leonard's speed, reflex's and his venom made him a truly great fighter. He had a great chin to go with the flair. Sure he was cocky but he had the ability to back it up.
Hearns was a nasty son of a bitch when he had people hurt but Leonard was pure evil when the killer instinct kicked in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WelshDevilRob
so to say he ducked anybody in his prime is a joke.
If its such a joke explain why Leonard moved up a weight in the Amateurs to avoid fighting Pryor ?? also explain when Pryor called Leonard out in a press conference why Leonard dismissed Pryor's challenge if he wasn't avoiding Pryor ??
You rekon Pryor beats Leonard at 147? Honestly?
I don't know because both men have never met anyone like each other before, obviously the favorite would be Leonard and if i had to choose i would pick Leonard by close decision with both men getting dropped in the fight. I think people are getting the wrong impression of me on this subject, i don't hate Leonard i think he is one of the most skilled boxers in the history of the sport, but i believe he did avoid Pryor but like i have said before every great fighter has avoided a fighter even Sugar Ray Robinson avoided Charley Burley, and he is considered the best boxer in the history of the boxing.
In the end Leonard beat some great fighters and did achieve a lot in his career even with his long lay offs. He also had a few questionable decision's and a few question marks on his overall career but so does every boxer, you could break down anyones record and say its questionable/overrated etc. Overall great fighter, great heart, great speed, flashy, underrated power, amazing foot work, one of the best Welterweights of all time.
fair play there bruva....:coolclick: i think it was a timing thing more then anything else. SRL searched for a combination of the hardest challenges with the biggest pay days and when he took on hearns this was by far the most challenging and financially rewarding fight out there. And striaght after this he then retired and it took a middleweight king who was beating everyone left, right and centre to get him out of this retirement, which we all know was a HUGE challenge and wudda no doubt made him a mint!
:coolclick: back i can see it from Leonard's point of view though because at that time. Pryor was a high risk/low reward fight, and can you believe that Pryor and Leonard were once friends ??
Re: Sugar Ray Leonard:why do some hate him/think he was over rated?
CC Ice i did get the wrong idea about what you were saying when you first answered the question then again SRL is my fav for lower weights so i get defensive so maybe i went a bit over board when i just good i mean he was greatest light welter and that makes him great right there.
