Re: Is Kostya Tszyu really the greatest 140 pounder ever?
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Originally Posted by eagle
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Originally Posted by Ice Cold Boxing
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Originally Posted by eagle
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Originally Posted by Ice Cold Boxing
One thing i never understood is why Kostya Tszyu quit vs Hatton ?? that was very close fight and i had Hatton only leading by 1 point if i remember right going into the 12th.
His corner took him out of the fight as far as im aware. Kostya was not happy about it apparently.
Pretty strange isn't it ?? with hindsight Tszyu couldn't of won on judges scorecards. But still his corner should of let him go out for the final round and at least let him go out on his shield thats a terrible way to end your career on the stool.
The reason Kt's trainer Johnny Lewis gave was that from looking at Kostya and talking to him in the corner he thought he was gone and had nothing else left. Lewis said he did it to prevent further damage.
Rumour has it the Tszyu had minor bruising on the brain(if brain bruising can be minor) so maybe it was the right call.
Also i dont think they knew it'd be his last fight at the time.
I didn't know Tszyu had brain bruising, well that has changed my opinion on the matter.
Re: Is Kostya Tszyu really the greatest 140 pounder ever?
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Originally Posted by Ice Cold Boxing
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Originally Posted by eagle
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Originally Posted by Ice Cold Boxing
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Originally Posted by eagle
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Originally Posted by Ice Cold Boxing
One thing i never understood is why Kostya Tszyu quit vs Hatton ?? that was very close fight and i had Hatton only leading by 1 point if i remember right going into the 12th.
His corner took him out of the fight as far as im aware. Kostya was not happy about it apparently.
Pretty strange isn't it ?? with hindsight Tszyu couldn't of won on judges scorecards. But still his corner should of let him go out for the final round and at least let him go out on his shield thats a terrible way to end your career on the stool.
The reason Kt's trainer Johnny Lewis gave was that from looking at Kostya and talking to him in the corner he thought he was gone and had nothing else left. Lewis said he did it to prevent further damage.
Rumour has it the Tszyu had minor bruising on the brain(if brain bruising can be minor) so maybe it was the right call.
Also i dont think they knew it'd be his last fight at the time.
I didn't know Tszyu had brain bruising, well that has changed my opinion on the matter.
Im not 100% certain he did either, it was a bit of a rumour doing the rounds here in Australia. I haven't heard anything official, the fact that he hasnt really tried to fight since may point to the fact that there is some kind of issue tho. He never said the Hatton fight was his last.
Re: Is Kostya Tszyu really the greatest 140 pounder ever?
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Originally Posted by Taeth
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Originally Posted by zhubin
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Originally Posted by El Gamo
I'm really surprised,I did this thread about a year and a half ago, and I'm sure the consensus was that he was the best 140 pounder! Wow!You guys all make valid points.
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Originally Posted by zhubin
You can make a case for JCC, Pryor, or Chavez being the best at that weight. All great fighters. But in his prime...i wouldn't bet against Tszyu against anybody at 140. Tremendous power, skill, and intelligence. As The Third Man already mentioned...he wasn't physically right in the Phillips fight. The Hatton fight was a combination of age and horrible refereeing. Not trying to make excuses for Kostya...just don't think he was at his best for those two fights. My dream fight has always been Tszyu vs. Mayweather in their primes. That would have been a tremendous fight!
I used to think Tszyu would beat Mayweather but I'm not so sure anymore.Not at all. To beat Floyd,you need alot more things than just 1 huge punch. Mayweather has shown,even in the Oscar fight,if your arsenal is primarily based around 1 punch,you're not going to beat him,no matter how good it is(and Oscar's left hook is a thing of beauty).
I do think Tszyu had a way of solving boxers,and he had an awesome sense of timing,but Mayweather is in a different league to Mitchell and Zab. And as for Kostya lasting with Aaaron Pryor,forget about it. Every fighter has a style that they cannot handle,for KT,I think that is in your face pressure fighters,like Hatton and Phillips. They never gave him a chance to get his bombs off,they never gave him time to think. Pryor was more monstrous than those 2 combined,Pryor stops Tszyu every time for me.The Hawk may get dropped but he'll get back up and win for sure imo.
I don't think Tszyu could have beaten Hatton even in his prime.Hatton had too much pressure and walked through his best shots. I'd give Tszyu more of a chance if the fight was not in England for sure,and if he was younger,but I'd still choose Hatton to win. I didn't see a single sign in the first match for me to say Tszyu would beat Hatton.
Tszyu possessed much more than just a powerful single punch. He is a better fighter and better conditioned athlete than Oscar as well. To beat Floyd you need good speed, timing, accuracy, stamina, and intelligence. All of which KT had in abundance to go along with his great power. Not saying KT would definitely win...but it would have been a great fight and BY FAR Floyd's biggest challenge. I guess one can argue that Hatton's pressure style could have always posed problems for Tszyu. But the fight took place way to late in his career and under far from ideal circumstances for me to simply think Hatton could have beaten Tszyu in his prime. And again...i just feel he wasn't physically right against Phillips. As for Pryor...he was a beast. No question he would be a great challenge for anyone at that weight.
Tszyu is a better technical fighter than Oscar, but Oscar's left hook lands as hard as Tszyu's right hand, he is alot faster than Tszyum, and Oscar has always had good timing, and Floyd Snr has improved his defensive to go along with that height made it hard for Mayweather to land a lot of his shots the way he likes to. Tszyu is definitely a good fighter, but this fight is more like JCC-Whitaker than anything... Mayweather is too slick, too durable, and too hard to hit for Tszyu to stand a real chance against. Mayweather was way faster at 140 than he is now, what him against Gatti, Corley, etc., and you will see a guy too quick, and too smart for Tszyu as great as he was. Because he, Floyd, didn't stay at the weight he would be considered ATG better at the weight, but he would beat Tszyu decidedly, However I still believe JCC was better than Tszyu in many aspects and its a toss up between them for who's the "greatest" 140 pounder.
Oscar is a lot faster than KT?! That's news to me. Oscar is not as skilled, smart, and well conditioned as Tszyu was. I also find it ridiculous that you would think a Mayweather vs. Tszyu fight would be like JCC-Whitaker. KT fought nothing like Chavez and he thrived against fast/technical fighters. If anything...it would be a fighter with a pressure style that would give KT more trouble...and Floyd certainly is not a pressure fighter. Tszyu great power makes some people sometimes forget what a great technical and cerebral fighter he was. AGAIN...i am not saying KT would definitely win against Floyd...but you are dreaming if you think it would have been a one sided fight in Floyd's favor. And please don't use Gatti and Corley as an example of how Floyd would fare against Tszyu...those fighter are no where near the same caliber.
Re: Is Kostya Tszyu really the greatest 140 pounder ever?
As for a vs. fight between Pryor & Tszyu I'd favor Tszyu....
Tszyu the greatest 14O lbers... Uuhhhhh! Well that depends....
What about Locche, JCC, Perkins & Cervantes? All-Time greats.
(I don't rate Loi as I've not seen much of him lot's of Highlights but still not enough)
I don't think anyone of them dominated the division as well as Tszyu did but they all have the advantage of quality of opposition over Tszyu. While Locche, Cervantes, Loi & Perkins all had eachother but neither dominated the division. Tszyu had some excellent opposition but IMO none of them would be considered All-Time greats however he was able to become the Undisputed Unified Champion and regined supreme. It's pretty tricky here and I think it would all be up to each person to determine if you favor dominance of the division over quality of opponents.
Re: Is Kostya Tszyu really the greatest 140 pounder ever?
Re: Is Kostya Tszyu really the greatest 140 pounder ever?
also Pryor would outwork Kostya IMO. good fight either way.
Re: Is Kostya Tszyu really the greatest 140 pounder ever?
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Originally Posted by 'The Boxer'
No he's not.
Thats a pretty blunt answer. Whats your theory behind it?
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Originally Posted by 'The Boxer'
also Pryor would outwork Kostya IMO. good fight either way.
Its all good outworking Tszyu til u eat a monster righthand.
Re: Is Kostya Tszyu really the greatest 140 pounder ever?
Floyd and Tszyu,
I always liked Kostyas timing more than anything else he had,
Impeccable timing beats overall speed in my book; not in a three rounder or early on but over ten or twelve no worries cause the timer hits harder becuase of it and makes the speed man pay and he gets pulled up over time.
Kt has a good chin, mayweather hard to catch clean.
Then you got Floyds feet and masterful purposeful distancing which sets him apart from being just fast handed.
Floyd has natural hand eye skills and flows freely , Kostya's is learned skill, through experience of timing others.
Be a great match up in styles. Even but different.
Fuck it we missed out there!
Re: Is Kostya Tszyu really the greatest 140 pounder ever?
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Originally Posted by Andre
Floyd and Tszyu,
I always liked Kostyas timing more than anything else he had,
Impeccable timing beats overall speed in my book; not in a three rounder or early on but over ten or twelve no worries cause the timer hits harder becuase of it and makes the speed man pay and he gets pulled up over time.
Kt has a good chin, mayweather hard to catch clean.
Then you got Floyds feet and masterful purposeful distancing which sets him apart from being just fast handed.
Floyd has natural hand eye skills and flows freely , Kostya's is learned skill, through experience of timing others.
Be a great match up in styles. Even but different.
Fuck it we missed out there!
Yep - Floyd versus Kostya would have been a barn burner when Kostya was at his peak. (I rate Tszyu's peak as the night he beat Gonzalez)
I pick Floyd by unanimous decision - Kostya was special but Floyd has too many gifts IMO.
Re: Is Kostya Tszyu really the greatest 140 pounder ever?
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Originally Posted by CutMeMick
As for a vs. fight between Pryor & Tszyu I'd favor Tszyu....
Tszyu the greatest 14O lbers... Uuhhhhh! Well that depends....
What about Locche, JCC, Perkins & Cervantes? All-Time greats.
(I don't rate Loi as I've not seen much of him lot's of Highlights but still not enough)
I don't think anyone of them dominated the division as well as Tszyu did but they all have the advantage of quality of opposition over Tszyu. While Locche, Cervantes, Loi & Perkins all had eachother but neither dominated the division. Tszyu had some excellent opposition but IMO none of them would be considered All-Time greats however he was able to become the Undisputed Unified Champion and regined supreme. It's pretty tricky here and I think it would all be up to each person to determine if you favor dominance of the division over quality of opponents.
Trust you,mr.encyclopedia to mention fighters no-one else has mentioned. I have 4 fights of Locche,he was excellent,Cervantes was an excellent fighter too but who are Loi and Perkins?
Re: Is Kostya Tszyu really the greatest 140 pounder ever?
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Originally Posted by Bilbo
Ok this post may be unpopular but I believe that historically the 140 lb division is one of the weakest and there are many fighters who could have been the best in this division but they used it just to pass through.
I pretty much agree. The 140 division never really had two prime fighters at the same time so generally you could regarded it as weak.
I think Tszyu, Chavez and Pryor all lack great (genuine) win at 140 and but that does not mean that they weren't great fighters. Its just hard to compare records becuase none stand out... Especially Pryor's.
I like Tszyu though. From what ive seen of him, he was class.
I think he'd smash Pryor... I know Pryor was this whirlwind of perpetual agression but he was sooo so crude with it. I think Pryor would of been knocked out pretty quickly.
The Chavez fight? I dunno. My opinion will always be tainted by the fact that he smashed Chavez a decade or so ago.
Re: Is Kostya Tszyu really the greatest 140 pounder ever?
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Originally Posted by Jimafee
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Originally Posted by Bilbo
Ok this post may be unpopular but I believe that historically the 140 lb division is one of the weakest and there are many fighters who could have been the best in this division but they used it just to pass through.
I pretty much agree. The 140 division never really had two prime fighters at the same time so generally you could regarded it as weak.
I think Tszyu, Chavez and Pryor
all lack great (genuine) win at 140 and but that does not mean that they weren't great fighters. Its just hard to compare records becuase none stand out... Especially Pryor's.
I like Tszyu though. From what ive seen of him, he was class.
I think he'd smash Pryor... I know Pryor was this whirlwind of perpetual agression but he was
sooo so crude with it.
I think Pryor would of been knocked out pretty quickly.
The Chavez fight? I dunno. My opinion will always be tainted by the fact that he smashed Chavez a decade or so ago.
BIG call...
Have you seen Pryor against Alexis Arguello? In round 13 Arguello hits him with a right hand that would have stopped a truck. Pryor's head nearly came off his shoulders. What happens? He keeps on fighting like nothing happened and knocks Arguello out next round.
Pryor was reckless because he could afford to be - he was one tough, tough guy.
Re: Is Kostya Tszyu really the greatest 140 pounder ever?
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Originally Posted by El Gamo
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Originally Posted by CutMeMick
As for a vs. fight between Pryor & Tszyu I'd favor Tszyu....
Tszyu the greatest 14O lbers... Uuhhhhh! Well that depends....
What about Locche, JCC, Perkins & Cervantes? All-Time greats.
(I don't rate Loi as I've not seen much of him lot's of Highlights but still not enough)
I don't think anyone of them dominated the division as well as Tszyu did but they all have the advantage of quality of opposition over Tszyu. While Locche, Cervantes, Loi & Perkins all had eachother but neither dominated the division. Tszyu had some excellent opposition but IMO none of them would be considered All-Time greats however he was able to become the Undisputed Unified Champion and regined supreme. It's pretty tricky here and I think it would all be up to each person to determine if you favor dominance of the division over quality of opponents.
Trust you,mr.encyclopedia to mention fighters no-one else has mentioned. I have 4 fights of Locche,he was excellent,Cervantes was an excellent fighter too but who are Loi and Perkins?
Eddie Perkins was Jr Welterweight champion in the 60s he fought Dullie Loi, Jose Angel Napoles etc, and Dullie loi the great Italian Jr Welterweight in the 50s who become Jr Welterweight champion in 1960, Loi died just recently he beat every man he ever faced he also beat Eddie Perkins the one i just mentioned and Carlos Ortiz.
Re: Is Kostya Tszyu really the greatest 140 pounder ever?
Tszyu was probably the best Amatuer Ive seen in the last 30 years, in my eyes he never technicaly improved as a Pro. I beleive he went with the wrong people, but still a great fighter. Somebody like Futch would have done a great job he was Eddies type of Fighter
Re: Is Kostya Tszyu really the greatest 140 pounder ever?
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Originally Posted by Scrap
Tszyu was probably the best Amatuer Ive seen in the last 30 years, in my eyes he never technicaly improved as a Pro. I beleive he went with the wrong people, but still a great fighter. Somebody like Futch would have done a great job he was Eddies type of Fighter
Thats a good point Scrap.
I felt that after turning pro he actually abandoned a lot of the skills which made him such an exemplary amateur (although he did compensate with his power.)
