Re: How good was a 'prime' tyson?
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Originally Posted by
lance Uppercut
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Originally Posted by
brucelee
Tyson was the youngest Heavyweight champ. That was a great accomplishment already.
I wonder what Michael Spinks thinks about this.
After all, he was still the heavyweight champion when tyson beat berbick for an alphabet title, and Spinks would go on to successfully defend the real/linear Heavyweight Championship against Jerry Cooney 7 months after Tyson picked up the alphabet trinket from Berbick.
Spinks would be thinking that he doesn't deserve that linear Championship after her was knocked down early and EASILY by Tyson.IMO
During that time, people were actually saying that Tyson would be like fighting Ali coz Spinks was still undefeated at that time. Many have been saying that Spinks would surely beat Tyson only to be viciously proven wrong.
By the way, Berbick was not a champion for nothing. He had been knocking people also and he was in no way an easy opponent for most heavyweights during that time. Tyson, again, disposed him easily.:cool:
Re: How good was a 'prime' tyson?
One more thing I want to add....
When people talk about Tyson being overrated, the focus always is on his lack of mental toughness. But IMO, a big reason why he would have lost to many top heavyweights is not because he lacked toughness, it's because he was a short, stocky short-armed fighter. A good tall long armed fighter is almost always going to beat a short, stocky, short-armed fighter.
Ali, Holmes, Foreman, Lewis, Bowe.... all those guys would have either beaten Tyson or had a very good chance at beating him, but it's not because I think Tyson would have cracked mentally, I just think he would have been tactically outgunned by fighters with much longer reaches and more height.
Re: How good was a 'prime' tyson?
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Originally Posted by
DaxxKahn
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Originally Posted by
Lyle
Yes and hence my conclusion...I was talking about "what if Tyson fought better opposition post prison" .....I would have had more respect for him had he fought those guys instead of: Neilen, Botha, Savarese, Julius Francis, and Orlin Norris.
Tyson fought a lot of bums
I think that was a version of Tyson that had already given up on his career and could care less how he went down in history as....He wantd to be paid and he knew or should I say his people knew Tyson drew a huge crowd no matter who he fought so why fight anyone dangerous....
The Holyfield and Lewis fights were more because it was what fans wanted to see then Tyson wanting to prove something
Come 1995 I pretty much cut Tyson off as a fighter who actually was something...ecverything forward from tat was a circus act
I fully agree with you Daxx. After he lost to Douglas, everything was a circus act. That's why the heavyweight division is having a hard time recovering its lost glory.
Tyson had been fighting for money and did not care anymore about how he will go down in boxing history coz he has already lost his sanity.
So I would say that a prime and SANE Tyson would have beaten all the heavyweight ATGs.IMO
Re: How good was a 'prime' tyson?
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Originally Posted by
brucelee
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Originally Posted by
DaxxKahn
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Originally Posted by
Lyle
Yes and hence my conclusion...I was talking about "what if Tyson fought better opposition post prison" .....I would have had more respect for him had he fought those guys instead of: Neilen, Botha, Savarese, Julius Francis, and Orlin Norris.
Tyson fought a lot of bums
I think that was a version of Tyson that had already given up on his career and could care less how he went down in history as....He wantd to be paid and he knew or should I say his people knew Tyson drew a huge crowd no matter who he fought so why fight anyone dangerous....
The Holyfield and Lewis fights were more because it was what fans wanted to see then Tyson wanting to prove something
Come 1995 I pretty much cut Tyson off as a fighter who actually was something...ecverything forward from tat was a circus act
I fully agree with you Daxx. After he lost to Douglas, everything was a circus act. That's why the heavyweight division is having a hard time recovering its lost glory.
Tyson had been fighting for money and did not care anymore about how he will go down in boxing history coz he has already lost his sanity.
So I would say that a prime and SANE Tyson would have beaten all the heavyweight ATGs.IMO
Have you seen Tyson's fights with Tillis and Tucker ??
Re: How good was a 'prime' tyson?
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Originally Posted by
ICB
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Originally Posted by
brucelee
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Originally Posted by
DaxxKahn
I think that was a version of Tyson that had already given up on his career and could care less how he went down in history as....He wantd to be paid and he knew or should I say his people knew Tyson drew a huge crowd no matter who he fought so why fight anyone dangerous....
The Holyfield and Lewis fights were more because it was what fans wanted to see then Tyson wanting to prove something
Come 1995 I pretty much cut Tyson off as a fighter who actually was something...ecverything forward from tat was a circus act
I fully agree with you Daxx. After he lost to Douglas, everything was a circus act. That's why the heavyweight division is having a hard time recovering its lost glory.
Tyson had been fighting for money and did not care anymore about how he will go down in boxing history coz he has already lost his sanity.
So I would say that a prime and SANE Tyson would have beaten all the heavyweight ATGs.IMO
Have you seen Tyson's fights with Tillis and Tucker ??
I was at the Tillis fight...Mike was not used to guys running and holding Tillis gave an awkward fight...In no way did Tillis come close to winning''''He was just frustrating Tyson...By the next year Tyson was a different fighter...Ring maturity wise
Re: How good was a 'prime' tyson?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DaxxKahn
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Originally Posted by
ICB
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Originally Posted by
brucelee
I fully agree with you Daxx. After he lost to Douglas, everything was a circus act. That's why the heavyweight division is having a hard time recovering its lost glory.
Tyson had been fighting for money and did not care anymore about how he will go down in boxing history coz he has already lost his sanity.
So I would say that a prime and SANE Tyson would have beaten all the heavyweight ATGs.IMO
Have you seen Tyson's fights with Tillis and Tucker ??
I was at the Tillis fight...Mike was not used to guys running and holding Tillis gave an awkward fight...In no way did Tillis come close to winning''''He was just frustrating Tyson...By the next year Tyson was a different fighter...Ring maturity wise
I thought Tillis done very well and wasn't afraid to mix it up unlike most of Tyson's opponents, Tillis was winning the 4th round big until he threw that amateurish left hand and he got caught on the counter and went down, that round was a big factor in the fight, i can't remember how many rounds i gave Tillis but i think i gave him maybe 3 something like 6-3-1 in Tyson's favor. It was two things, 1 because like you say Tyson was inexperienced, and 2 because of Tillis's movement. Tucker also done very well until he broke his hand in the 4th round i gave Tucker 4 rounds in there fight, he lifted Tyson off his feet with an uppercut in the first round, don't know how Tyson didn't go down from that punch.
Re: How good was a 'prime' tyson?
Yeah. Tyson won that two fights by UD. By the way, how old were you ICB during that time? Have you watched those fights live ?
Re: How good was a 'prime' tyson?
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Originally Posted by
brucelee
Yeah. Tyson won that two fights by UD. By the way, how old were you ICB during that time? Have you watched those fights live ?
No didn't see those fights live im 18 Bruce.
Re: How good was a 'prime' tyson?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DaxxKahn
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Originally Posted by
ICB
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Originally Posted by
brucelee
I fully agree with you Daxx. After he lost to Douglas, everything was a circus act. That's why the heavyweight division is having a hard time recovering its lost glory.
Tyson had been fighting for money and did not care anymore about how he will go down in boxing history coz he has already lost his sanity.
So I would say that a prime and SANE Tyson would have beaten all the heavyweight ATGs.IMO
Have you seen Tyson's fights with Tillis and Tucker ??
I was at the Tillis fight...Mike was not used to guys running and holding Tillis gave an awkward fight...In no way did Tillis come close to winning''''He was just frustrating Tyson...By the next year Tyson was a different fighter...Ring maturity wise
Yes, Daxx. Tillis and even Tucker were running and holding. Both were willing to mix it up with Tyson before the fight but when they were hit by a big right from Tyson they would usually hold.:cool:
Re: How good was a 'prime' tyson?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
brucelee
Yeah. Tyson won that two fights by UD. By the way, how old were you ICB during that time? Have you watched those fights live ?
:-X:-X..I had Tillis taking some rounds on tyson....Get ready to laugh....Ribalta and Biggs had some spots as well.That Tucker fight was just ugly Imo.
Re: How good was a 'prime' tyson?
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Originally Posted by
ICB
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Originally Posted by
brucelee
Yeah. Tyson won that two fights by UD. By the way, how old were you ICB during that time? Have you watched those fights live ?
No didn't see those fights live im 18 Bruce.
Tucker was holding Tyson's hand EVERY TIME Tyson gives him a hard shot.;D
Re: How good was a 'prime' tyson?
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Originally Posted by
brucelee
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Originally Posted by
DaxxKahn
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Originally Posted by
ICB
Have you seen Tyson's fights with Tillis and Tucker ??
I was at the Tillis fight...Mike was not used to guys running and holding Tillis gave an awkward fight...In no way did Tillis come close to winning''''He was just frustrating Tyson...By the next year Tyson was a different fighter...Ring maturity wise
Yes, Daxx. Tillis and even Tucker were running and holding. Both were willing to mix it up with Tyson before the fight but when they were hit by a big right from Tyson they would usually hold.:cool:
Holding is one of the best ways to beat Tyson if used correctly, Tyson does get tied up easy and he gets frustrated if you can survive the early onslaught which not many Heavyweights could.
Re: How good was a 'prime' tyson?
You should know more than that ICB. Holding is something not respectable when you tell people that you would fight all out.:cool:
Re: How good was a 'prime' tyson?
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Originally Posted by
brucelee
You should know more than that ICB. Holding is something not respectable when you tell people that you would fight all out.:cool:
Well sometimes you have to fight a bit dirty to get the win Bruce and holding sometimes is a part of it. Holyfield beat Tyson by using clinching tactics, and Hopkins also clinched Calzaghe to good effect, and the same with Hatton vs Tszyu, its not pretty but it gets the job done if used correctly. I personally don't like seeing it but you do what you have to do to win.
Re: How good was a 'prime' tyson?
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Originally Posted by
ICB
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Originally Posted by
brucelee
You should know more than that ICB. Holding is something not respectable when you tell people that you would fight all out.:cool:
Well sometimes you have to fight a bit dirty to get the win Bruce and holding sometimes is a part of it. Holyfield beat Tyson by using clinching tactics, and Hopkins also clinched Calzaghe to good effect, and the same with Hatton vs Tszyu, its not pretty but it gets the job done if used correctly. I personally don't like seeing it but you do what you have to do to win.
Yeh,Holding/tieing up happens.Technically illegal but in all reality it also leads to inside oppurtunitys.Some guys just make a way of life with it.Hey...welcome back ICB,You can add in Great counter Hooks and lead rights,And dismissing all of the pundits who had felt Holyfields life was ' at risk' just getting in the ring with Tyson as to reasons He beat Tyson ;D
