Will Cotto Be The Same

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Originally Posted by leftylee number 1 groupie

Sorry CFH but i have to agree with JT here, i've seen Amateur fights live where i've seen a few boxers go to a knee up close. And its for certain a sign of quitting, now im not calling Miguel Cotto a quitter here.

But when you go down on one knee your trying to look for an easy way out, from the punishment. Which is obviously a natural human survival instinct, but its still a sign of quitting.

When Miguel Cotto got up from the 2nd knockdown he was looking at his corner, obviously hinting that he has had enough.

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Well, I disagree, but we already knew that.

I don't think taking a knee when you know you're about to be KO'd is a sign off quitting or looking for an easy way out. It's often a sign of good ring intelligence, you save yourself from getting KO'd and give yourself a chance to recover/come back. I've seen fighters take knees and then come back to win fights, so I have to disagree there as well.

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Originally Posted by CFH

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Originally Posted by leftylee number 1 groupie

Sorry CFH but i have to agree with JT here, i've seen Amateur fights live where i've seen a few boxers go to a knee up close. And its for certain a sign of quitting, now im not calling Miguel Cotto a quitter here.

But when you go down on one knee your trying to look for an easy way out, from the punishment. Which is obviously a natural human survival instinct, but its still a sign of quitting.

When Miguel Cotto got up from the 2nd knockdown he was looking at his corner, obviously hinting that he has had enough.

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Well, I disagree, but we already knew that.

I don't think taking a knee when you know you're about to be KO'd is a sign off quitting or looking for an easy way out. It's often a sign of good ring intelligence, you save yourself from getting KO'd and give yourself a chance to recover/come back. I've seen fighters take knees and then come back to win fights, so I have to disagree there as well.

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Oh i agree with you there CFH not in all cases is it a sign of quitting, but in this case it was IMO. Especially the way Miguel Cotto went down the 2nd time without even being hit, then looking at his corner which is basically signalling to stop the fight.

I think Cotto has the improved boxing smarts and mind set to bounce back well.Something tells me that he is burning to get at Tony again,strikes me as very proud.Do not think he should rush back to a rematch without first regrouping properly.That was not a first loss via a quick KO,it was sustained accumulative damage throughout......I disagree with the "Two different fights in one" thinking.Cotto boxed very well but Tony was wrecking that body very early.And I do not like to through the "He quit card" around with many fighters.One does not Choose to loose on the own volition with out firstly being put into that mode,mentally & physically...cause /effect by their opposition.It almost dicredits the Victor.

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Originally Posted by Spicoli surfs 'Nawlins

I think Cotto has the improved boxing smarts and mind set to bounce back well.Something tells me that he is burning to get at Tony again,strikes me as very proud.Do not think he should rush back to a rematch without first regrouping properly.That was not a first loss via a quick KO,it was sustained accumulative damage throughout......I disagree with the "Two different fights in one" thinking.Cotto boxed very well but Tony was wrecking that body very early.And I do not like to through the "He quit card" around with many fighters.One does not Choose to loose on the own volition with out firstly being put into that mode,mentally & physically...cause /effect by their opposition.It almost dicredits the Victor.

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You lost me brutha, you were trying to be eloquent but I think the bottom line is Tony stole Miguel's heart by beating him into submission... I think that satisfies both sides of the argument;D

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Originally Posted by JT Rock

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Originally Posted by Spicoli surfs 'Nawlins

I think Cotto has the improved boxing smarts and mind set to bounce back well.Something tells me that he is burning to get at Tony again,strikes me as very proud.Do not think he should rush back to a rematch without first regrouping properly.That was not a first loss via a quick KO,it was sustained accumulative damage throughout......I disagree with the "Two different fights in one" thinking.Cotto boxed very well but Tony was wrecking that body very early.And I do not like to through the "He quit card" around with many fighters.One does not Choose to loose on the own volition with out firstly being put into that mode,mentally & physically...cause /effect by their opposition.It almost dicredits the Victor.

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You lost me brutha, you were trying to be eloquent but I think the bottom line is Tony stole Miguel's heart by beating him into submission... I think that satisfies both sides of the argument;D

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I just can not resist, but did you ever see that opening scene w/Bill paxton from the original "Terminator" :-X.Tony did.So much for Eloquence :fight:


Jk,Jk......look,I think Cotto's heart is intact.He will come back strong but should steer clear of ...at this point, Margarito!

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I don't think taking a knee when you know you're about to be KO'd is a sign off quitting or looking for an easy way out

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But shaking your head as you look at your corner is :(. Look at the second KO when the camera zooms to his face and se how he looks at his corner and shakes his head "No mas" (no more). Unless he was shaking his head telling his coner "Don't stop the fight" :rolleyes:. I recently noticed this and had to keep rewinding that part.

I sure hope so...

As I've stated he had one of the busiest schedules for a top caliber champ. Fighting 3 or 4 fights a year for about 4 yrs. is a lot of work and your body will def. feel that...

I think the break is long overdue for him and spending time with his family is always a plus. Spend the holidays with them and receive the new year with the family then resume training in late Jan. would be perfect.

Set up a comeback fight in his hometown of Puerto Rico vs. Soto-Karass to get him back in the groove and then set up the big fight.

I think Cotto will be back the same if not better than befor. He obviously looked a class higher than Margo the first half of the fight while he was out-boxing the tornado. the diference will be this. Margo has one way of fighting, coming foward and beating the ever living crap out of you. as we all have seen from Cotto, he can hunt you down, brawl and/or box. he will use this against Margo this time around. he now knows that he cant stand and trade with Margo like he did in the middle rounds which ultimatley ended in him taking too much punishment. he will box the whole fight and stay away from the ropes. im predicting that he will make this fight alot less action packed and "run" alot more but will win in a points victory. alot of people are going to be upset that Cotto chose not to stand and trade but he will win the rematch and after the way the first fight ended, how can u blame him. thats my 2 cents

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Originally Posted by JT Rock

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Originally Posted by Spicoli surfs 'Nawlins

I think Cotto has the improved boxing smarts and mind set to bounce back well.Something tells me that he is burning to get at Tony again,strikes me as very proud.Do not think he should rush back to a rematch without first regrouping properly.That was not a first loss via a quick KO,it was sustained accumulative damage throughout......I disagree with the "Two different fights in one" thinking.Cotto boxed very well but Tony was wrecking that body very early.And I do not like to through the "He quit card" around with many fighters.One does not Choose to loose on the own volition with out firstly being put into that mode,mentally & physically...cause /effect by their opposition.It almost dicredits the Victor.

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You lost me brutha, you were trying to be eloquent but I think the bottom line is Tony stole Miguel's heart by beating him into submission... I think that satisfies both sides of the argument;D

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Geez JT, you know I respect the hell out of you, and have nothing but luv for you, but that has to be the most irrational thing I have ever seen you say.

How do you know if Tony stole his heart? Are you telepathic now, and know what's going on inside his head, and his heart? Nice trick if you do.

You are making an irrational statement based upon one fight, and not based upon his entire career, or him as a man. What do you really know about Cotto the man, not the boxer, but the man?

If you knew anything about Cotto, you would know that he's not going to let one night bring him down.


I got sidetracked last night, but tonight, I'll have a lot more to say on this subject.

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Originally Posted by Violent Ds Next Baby Mama

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Originally Posted by JT Rock

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Originally Posted by Spicoli surfs 'Nawlins

I think Cotto has the improved boxing smarts and mind set to bounce back well.Something tells me that he is burning to get at Tony again,strikes me as very proud.Do not think he should rush back to a rematch without first regrouping properly.That was not a first loss via a quick KO,it was sustained accumulative damage throughout......I disagree with the "Two different fights in one" thinking.Cotto boxed very well but Tony was wrecking that body very early.And I do not like to through the "He quit card" around with many fighters.One does not Choose to loose on the own volition with out firstly being put into that mode,mentally & physically...cause /effect by their opposition.It almost dicredits the Victor.

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You lost me brutha, you were trying to be eloquent but I think the bottom line is Tony stole Miguel's heart by beating him into submission... I think that satisfies both sides of the argument;D

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Geez JT, you know I respect the hell out of you, and have nothing but luv for you, but that has to be the most irrational thing I have ever seen you say.

How do you know if Tony stole his heart? Are you telepathic now, and know what's going on inside his head, and his heart? Nice trick if you do.

You are making an irrational statement based upon one fight, and not based upon his entire career, or him as a man. What do you really know about Cotto the man, not the boxer, but the man?

If you knew anything about Cotto, you would know that he's not going to let one night bring him down.


I got sidetracked last night, but tonight, I'll have a lot more to say on this subject.

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Many a boxer has gotten his heart broken/ stolen in a war of attricion, when you are sustaining heavy punishment, dosent matter if its heavy damage in a few rounds or accumulative over 12.

I dont want to split hairs with you nor do I want you to take it personal, but Miguels body language the last couple of rounds and how the fight ended and how he took the last knee showed signs of a broken fighter who had to submit and give in..

It happened to my favorite fighter, Lacy is no were near the technician of Cotto in the ring but still had the excitement and energy of a raging bull. After 12 rounds Joe had beaten the fighter out of Jeff, and unless he turns back the clock on Saturday that very well may be the harsh truth..

I do not wish the same on Miguel, Jeff has the heart and courage of a warrior like Miguel, he never took a knee or quit on his stool but after taking damage like that your body cant do the things it once could.

I hope he does come back, stronger if possible. The odds are against him though, the majority who suffer such a defeat simply don't make it back, of course he may be different but all we can do til he next steps in the ring is 'presume'.

I agree with JT, Cotto looked uncomforatble for a good few rounds, and most except the top rank commentators (on setanta) spotted it. He was beaten into submission, and quit. It's nothing to be ashamed of as his body was scraming at him no more, but since he wasn't unconsious he had to make the decision himself.

He has a nise mixture of skills and strength, but he'll need to add even more to the ersaenal to get back to where he once was, and if he ever stands a chance of revenge.

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Originally Posted by JT Rock

I have seen the Marg/Cotto fight over 10 times and although Cotto was seemingly on his way to UD victory you can see Margarito literally steal his heart and beat the fighter out of him, that was as about as brutal of an ending as you will see, whether it was the polarizing images or the drama of the announcing or the magnitude of the ethnic boxing rivalry between Puerto Rico and Mexico.

Cotto who already had a questionable chin, no doubt has a huge dent in it, and that dosent bode well against guys like Clottey, Williams, Berto, Cintron and even Margarito who IMO Cotto should avoid him like the plague or that will be the end of him for good...

I know great fighters comeback from adversity but very few can comeback from a demolishen like that and regain even half of their former self..

Good Luck to him going forward, I hate to see such a spectacular fighter and up on the scrap heap, like a Meldrick Taylor maybe even Jeff Lacy depending on how he looks this weekend.. Boxing is such an unforgiving sport:-\

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wat channel is lacy v taylorv on?

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Originally Posted by JT Rock

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Originally Posted by Violent Ds Next Baby Mama

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Originally Posted by JT Rock

You lost me brutha, you were trying to be eloquent but I think the bottom line is Tony stole Miguel's heart by beating him into submission... I think that satisfies both sides of the argument;D

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Geez JT, you know I respect the hell out of you, and have nothing but luv for you, but that has to be the most irrational thing I have ever seen you say.

How do you know if Tony stole his heart? Are you telepathic now, and know what's going on inside his head, and his heart? Nice trick if you do.

You are making an irrational statement based upon one fight, and not based upon his entire career, or him as a man. What do you really know about Cotto the man, not the boxer, but the man?

If you knew anything about Cotto, you would know that he's not going to let one night bring him down.


I got sidetracked last night, but tonight, I'll have a lot more to say on this subject.

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Many a boxer has gotten his heart broken/ stolen in a war of attricion, when you are sustaining heavy punishment, dosent matter if its heavy damage in a few rounds or accumulative over 12.

I dont want to split hairs with you nor do I want you to take it personal, but Miguels body language the last couple of rounds and how the fight ended and how he took the last knee showed signs of a broken fighter who had to submit and give in..

It happened to my favorite fighter, Lacy is no were near the technician of Cotto in the ring but still had the excitement and energy of a raging bull. After 12 rounds Joe had beaten the fighter out of Jeff, and unless he turns back the clock on Saturday that very well may be the harsh truth..

I do not wish the same on Miguel, Jeff has the heart and courage of a warrior like Miguel, he never took a knee or quit on his stool but after taking damage like that your body cant do the things it once could.

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I think cotto will come back strong and hve another battle with tony but imo the question will then be will he come back from a second defeat to tony and then move back to jnr welter.:confused:

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Originally Posted by jack2121

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Originally Posted by JT Rock

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Originally Posted by Violent Ds Next Baby Mama

Geez JT, you know I respect the hell out of you, and have nothing but luv for you, but that has to be the most irrational thing I have ever seen you say.

How do you know if Tony stole his heart? Are you telepathic now, and know what's going on inside his head, and his heart? Nice trick if you do.

You are making an irrational statement based upon one fight, and not based upon his entire career, or him as a man. What do you really know about Cotto the man, not the boxer, but the man?

If you knew anything about Cotto, you would know that he's not going to let one night bring him down.


I got sidetracked last night, but tonight, I'll have a lot more to say on this subject.

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Many a boxer has gotten his heart broken/ stolen in a war of attricion, when you are sustaining heavy punishment, dosent matter if its heavy damage in a few rounds or accumulative over 12.

I dont want to split hairs with you nor do I want you to take it personal, but Miguels body language the last couple of rounds and how the fight ended and how he took the last knee showed signs of a broken fighter who had to submit and give in..

It happened to my favorite fighter, Lacy is no were near the technician of Cotto in the ring but still had the excitement and energy of a raging bull. After 12 rounds Joe had beaten the fighter out of Jeff, and unless he turns back the clock on Saturday that very well may be the harsh truth..

I do not wish the same on Miguel, Jeff has the heart and courage of a warrior like Miguel, he never took a knee or quit on his stool but after taking damage like that your body cant do the things it once could.

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I think cotto will come back strong and hve another battle with tony but imo the question will then be will he come back from a second defeat to tony and then move back to jnr welter.:confused:

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He's done a jnr Welter, he had to spend so much time cutting weight in camp he couldnt concentrate on his technique and even at that he was drained come fight night.. 147 was the best thing he could have done..

Again I was thinking of Gerald McClellan / Nigel Benn what happened to Gerald goes without saying, but Benn was shot to pieces after that fight and was never the same.. I just hope Cotto can defeat the odds

Look at Cotto's eyes in the last few rounds. Do you see fear? He's suffering, and not just physically. He wasn't taking this beating well at all. Sure he was still landing a few punches, but all he was doing was trying to get away, maybe survive till the end of the fight.

He'll be ok in a comeback, till he faces someone who can stand in with him and give as good as he can take. Then we will see what he's made of.

Judgement withheld.