Re: Calzaghe ducked the best?
Calzaghe i don't belive has "ducked" anyone, he may not have necessarily fought the people we wanted to see him fight in the right decade....but he's pretty bad ass at what he does. I do belive his time has passed and missed out on the respect and fame he wants especially from people in the states but hey we're talking about him aren't we there are tons of fighters he in the states who we aren't. Joe imo isn't going to get the opportunity to prove how good he is but that doesn't necessarily make him a bad fighter or ducker punk whatever you want to call him. If i were him i'd retire and leave the young guys alone, he could win, but if he lost ......
Re: Calzaghe ducked the best?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
zhubin
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bambamdaddio
Quote:
Originally Posted by
zhubin
Last time i checked...the MAJORITY of big fights and big time fighters fight in the states (and i don't say that trying to be nationalistic...just a clear fact). So i have never given much credence to the argument that the reason prime Jones vs. Calzaghe didn't happen years ago...was Roys fault. He was the biggest star in boxing at that time...fighting in the country where the biggest fights take place. So he is supposed to go to Wales to fight Joe?! If Joe had the balls and a clear sense of his legacy...he would have brought his ass to the states back then. But what did he do instead...stay in comforts of Wales...until finally he comes to the states towards the end of his career to fight two 40+ year old fighters. Bravo Joe!!
Joe had no choice after realising the other two ya mention would not fight Joe unless it was in there own backyard....Dont forget that during all this time Joe was a champion too ....
So why bow down to the other champions whims ... Joe had as much right to want to fight at home as the other two do....& if Joe had been an easy enough fight for them, whty wait, why not come over & kick his ass ... because they didnt fancy it...
So after years of waiting & of trying to get the fights at home & realising they will never come, he goes over to the states & wins both fights, as a 36 year old, no spring chicken himself...But he did it & won, yet its still not good enough:shocking:
:badass::badass::badass:
I'll assume you are either joking or just completely ignorant. Did you read the beginning of my post? Boxing is a business. And where it's the biggest business is right here in the states (for better or worse). Roy Jones was a superstar. Joe, champion or not, was not (outside of Wales at least). But you want me to be foolish enough to believe the reason Joe didn't come to the US back then was because of his pride?! Worse,
you actually think "after years of waiting & trying" he decides to finally come to the states...to fight and prove his worth? Now that's funny. Maybe, just maybe...Joe waited for the RIGHT time to come here and fight guys like Roy and Bernard. But hey...trying to convince Joe fans such as yourself otherwise is pointless. George Foreman could come out of retirement....fight Joe and lose....and some of y'all would find a way to dress that up as an accomplishment.
There's enough quotes and stories from people involved with Hopkins and Calzaghe to SHOW Calzaghe was chasing a fight that didn't happen.
AS you just said "Boxing is a business." So when Joe became a BIG enough name, to earn both sides big enough money, the fights happened. That would make sense from a business point of view, right? Whereas fighting a no-name, who is CLEARLY extremely talented, would not have made sense back then, right?
So either way there's no dodging or ducking bollocks going on. The fights happen when they make business sense. ;)
Re: Calzaghe ducked the best?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
zhubin
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bambamdaddio
Joe had no choice after realising the other two ya mention would not fight Joe unless it was in there own backyard....Dont forget that during all this time Joe was a champion too ....
So why bow down to the other champions whims ... Joe had as much right to want to fight at home as the other two do....& if Joe had been an easy enough fight for them, whty wait, why not come over & kick his ass ... because they didnt fancy it...
So after years of waiting & of trying to get the fights at home & realising they will never come, he goes over to the states & wins both fights, as a 36 year old, no spring chicken himself...But he did it & won, yet its still not good enough:shocking:
:badass::badass::badass:
I'll assume you are either joking or just completely ignorant. Did you read the beginning of my post? Boxing is a business. And where it's the biggest business is right here in the states (for better or worse). Roy Jones was a superstar. Joe, champion or not, was not (outside of Wales at least). But you want me to be foolish enough to believe the reason Joe didn't come to the US back then was because of his pride?! Worse,
you actually think "after years of waiting & trying" he decides to finally come to the states...to fight and prove his worth? Now that's funny. Maybe, just maybe...Joe waited for the RIGHT time to come here and fight guys like Roy and Bernard. But hey...trying to convince Joe fans such as yourself otherwise is pointless. George Foreman could come out of retirement....fight Joe and lose....and some of y'all would find a way to dress that up as an accomplishment.
There's enough quotes and stories from people involved with Hopkins and Calzaghe to SHOW Calzaghe was chasing a fight that didn't happen.
AS you just said "Boxing is a business." So when Joe became a BIG enough name, to earn both sides big enough money, the fights happened. That would make sense from a business point of view, right? Whereas fighting a no-name, who is CLEARLY extremely talented, would not have made sense back then, right?
So either way there's no dodging or ducking bollocks going on. The fights happen when they make business sense. ;)
Nice try. I never said Joe was a "no name"...i said he was not a superstar. And was there a news flash i missed...is Joe, even NOW, a BIG name here in the states? And how convenient...that in Joe's mind (and the mind of some of his fans) he became a "big name" just recently...and hence finally fought Roy and Bernard when they are both over 40. If Joe had the balls back then to come to the states...you don't think Jones and Hopkins would have fought him? Bottom line...Joe Calzaghe didn't actively pursue to come here, to the states (where boxing is at it's biggest stage), years ago. You can sugar coat his career anyway you want...but the smokescreen that are his recent fights here don't make up for his padded record at the comforts of his home in Wales for the majority of his career.
Re: Calzaghe ducked the best?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
zhubin
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
zhubin
I'll assume you are either joking or just completely ignorant. Did you read the beginning of my post? Boxing is a business. And where it's the biggest business is right here in the states (for better or worse). Roy Jones was a superstar. Joe, champion or not, was not (outside of Wales at least). But you want me to be foolish enough to believe the reason Joe didn't come to the US back then was because of his pride?! Worse, you actually think "after years of waiting & trying" he decides to finally come to the states...to fight and prove his worth? Now that's funny. Maybe, just maybe...Joe waited for the RIGHT time to come here and fight guys like Roy and Bernard. But hey...trying to convince Joe fans such as yourself otherwise is pointless. George Foreman could come out of retirement....fight Joe and lose....and some of y'all would find a way to dress that up as an accomplishment.
There's enough quotes and stories from people involved with Hopkins and Calzaghe to SHOW Calzaghe was chasing a fight that didn't happen.
AS you just said "Boxing is a business." So when Joe became a BIG enough name, to earn both sides big enough money, the fights happened. That would make sense from a business point of view, right? Whereas fighting a no-name, who is CLEARLY extremely talented, would not have made sense back then, right?
So either way there's no dodging or ducking bollocks going on. The fights happen when they make business sense. ;)
Nice try. I never said Joe was a "no name"...i said he was not a superstar. And was there a news flash i missed...is Joe, even NOW, a BIG name here in the states? And how convenient...that in Joe's mind (and the mind of some of his fans) he became a "big name" just recently...and hence finally fought Roy and Bernard when they are both over 40. If Joe had the balls back then to come to the states...you don't think Jones and Hopkins would have fought him? Bottom line...Joe Calzaghe didn't actively pursue to come here, to the states (where boxing is at it's biggest stage), years ago. You can sugar coat his career anyway you want...but the smokescreen that are his recent fights here don't make up for his padded record at the comforts of his home in Wales for the majority of his career.
Nice try?
From your first post i thought you was making a reasonable point.. but now i'm thinking you just want to bash Calzaghe. :rolleyes:
Joe is currently a TOP THREE ranked P4P fighter (using The Ring). He never entered the The Ring P4P ratings until he beat Lacy. On the back of that performance, he was snapped up by HBO.. and in turn was able to land BIG money fights against the likes of Hopkins and Roy. That would make him a RECENT big name, no?
Here's shitty pants Joe trying to get a fight with Hopkins before becoming a BIG NAME - "A teleconference was set up in my office in New York for July 30th, 2002, and on the call was myself, Don King who was in the room, Frank Warren and Bernard Hopkins' lawyer, Arnold Joseph. Along with Arnold was a woman named Linda Carter, who was there on behalf of Bernard. We asked Arnold if Bernard wanted to fight Joe Calzaghe and we asked him how much money would he want if he did. The response we got was $3million and the fight would have to take place in the United States. After a little scratching of the head, we said 'Okay, done.' Frank Warren agreed on the spot, Don King agreed and we agreed so as far as we were concerned all parties were singing off the one hymm sheet. Arnold excused himself with Linda and I can only assume it was to call Bernard. Either that day or the next day, they came with a new demand: $6million, double the sum that had been agreed, the deal blew up.....he had then and still has no desire to fight Joe Calzaghe, that much is pretty clear.
Joe gets criticised sometimes for not having fought the big-name Americans, but in this case the fault has never rested with him."
- Jay Larkin, then Showtime TV Network's Senior Vice-President of Sports and Event Programming.
What did Joe do wrong here? It shows he was TRYING to make a fight with Hopkins in the States, no?
;)
Re: Calzaghe ducked the best?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
zhubin
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bambamdaddio
Joe had no choice after realising the other two ya mention would not fight Joe unless it was in there own backyard....Dont forget that during all this time Joe was a champion too ....
So why bow down to the other champions whims ... Joe had as much right to want to fight at home as the other two do....& if Joe had been an easy enough fight for them, whty wait, why not come over & kick his ass ... because they didnt fancy it...
So after years of waiting & of trying to get the fights at home & realising they will never come, he goes over to the states & wins both fights, as a 36 year old, no spring chicken himself...But he did it & won, yet its still not good enough:shocking:
:badass::badass::badass:
I'll assume you are either joking or just completely ignorant. Did you read the beginning of my post? Boxing is a business. And where it's the biggest business is right here in the states (for better or worse). Roy Jones was a superstar. Joe, champion or not, was not (outside of Wales at least). But you want me to be foolish enough to believe the reason Joe didn't come to the US back then was because of his pride?! Worse,
you actually think "after years of waiting & trying" he decides to finally come to the states...to fight and prove his worth? Now that's funny. Maybe, just maybe...Joe waited for the RIGHT time to come here and fight guys like Roy and Bernard. But hey...trying to convince Joe fans such as yourself otherwise is pointless. George Foreman could come out of retirement....fight Joe and lose....and some of y'all would find a way to dress that up as an accomplishment.
There's enough quotes and stories from people involved with Hopkins and Calzaghe to SHOW Calzaghe was chasing a fight that didn't happen.
AS you just said "Boxing is a business." So when Joe became a BIG enough name, to earn both sides big enough money, the fights happened. That would make sense from a business point of view, right? Whereas fighting a no-name, who is CLEARLY extremely talented, would not have made sense back then, right?
So either way there's no dodging or ducking bollocks going on. The fights happen when they make business sense. ;)
Thank you ... because Fensters post saved me some typing...& to zhubin There is a very naive school of thought by us deluded JC fans .....
& THAT IS,
MAYBE, JUST MAYBE JOE CALZAGHE WAS SIMPLY TOO BIG A RISK TO TAKE UNLESS THEY WAS TO BE GIVEN FORT KNOX FOR THERE EFFORTS BACK THEN.....
& Had Joe not gone to the states eventually, the fights would never have been made .... because Hopkins & Jones sure as hell had made it clear enough that there was no way that they would be coming to Europe let alone GB any time soon FACT.
3 Other Facts.....
1) No, I wasn't Joking...But surely you was when saying ..
"George Foreman could come out of retirement....fight Joe and lose....and some of y'all would find a way to dress that up as an accomplishment"
2) No, Im not ignorant, But to high-lite a pretty good deifnition of what ignorance is read the above quote from yourself, because for you to typcast JC fans per se as if we are robotic & lacking in any boxing insite where JC is concerned ... & for you to presume that Im some kinda JC cheer leader that bats his eye lashes at anything he does in the ring ...IS IGNORANT...
3) However, whatever, whenever....JC went to the states when it made good sense (A buisness you said, did you read the beggining of your post) & beat both the fighters that you mention & got more money than he would have a decade ago....
:badass::badass::badass:
Re: Calzaghe ducked the best?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bambamdaddio
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
zhubin
I'll assume you are either joking or just completely ignorant. Did you read the beginning of my post? Boxing is a business. And where it's the biggest business is right here in the states (for better or worse). Roy Jones was a superstar. Joe, champion or not, was not (outside of Wales at least). But you want me to be foolish enough to believe the reason Joe didn't come to the US back then was because of his pride?! Worse, you actually think "after years of waiting & trying" he decides to finally come to the states...to fight and prove his worth? Now that's funny. Maybe, just maybe...Joe waited for the RIGHT time to come here and fight guys like Roy and Bernard. But hey...trying to convince Joe fans such as yourself otherwise is pointless. George Foreman could come out of retirement....fight Joe and lose....and some of y'all would find a way to dress that up as an accomplishment.
There's enough quotes and stories from people involved with Hopkins and Calzaghe to SHOW Calzaghe was chasing a fight that didn't happen.
AS you just said "Boxing is a business." So when Joe became a BIG enough name, to earn both sides big enough money, the fights happened. That would make sense from a business point of view, right? Whereas fighting a no-name, who is CLEARLY extremely talented, would not have made sense back then, right?
So either way there's no dodging or ducking bollocks going on. The fights happen when they make business sense. ;)
Thank you ... because Fensters post saved me some typing...& to
zhubin There is a very naive school of thought by us deluded JC fans .....
& THAT IS,
MAYBE, JUST MAYBE JOE CALZAGHE WAS SIMPLY TOO BIG A RISK TO TAKE UNLESS THEY WAS TO BE GIVEN FORT KNOX FOR THERE EFFORTS BACK THEN.....
& Had Joe not gone to the states eventually, the fights would never have been made .... because Hopkins & Jones sure as hell had made it clear enough that there was no way that they would be coming to Europe let alone GB any time soon FACT.
.
.
.
Maybe just maybe Hopkins didn't want to move up to SMW? Why would he want to? Clearly Calzaghe needed Hopkins more than Hopkins needed Calzaghe. If Calzaghe was a middleweight, the story could easily have been a little different. Staying at middleweight was clearly the best move for Hopkins, as things would turn out.
Re: Calzaghe ducked the best?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bambamdaddio
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
zhubin
I'll assume you are either joking or just completely ignorant. Did you read the beginning of my post? Boxing is a business. And where it's the biggest business is right here in the states (for better or worse). Roy Jones was a superstar. Joe, champion or not, was not (outside of Wales at least). But you want me to be foolish enough to believe the reason Joe didn't come to the US back then was because of his pride?! Worse, you actually think "after years of waiting & trying" he decides to finally come to the states...to fight and prove his worth? Now that's funny. Maybe, just maybe...Joe waited for the RIGHT time to come here and fight guys like Roy and Bernard. But hey...trying to convince Joe fans such as yourself otherwise is pointless. George Foreman could come out of retirement....fight Joe and lose....and some of y'all would find a way to dress that up as an accomplishment.
There's enough quotes and stories from people involved with Hopkins and Calzaghe to SHOW Calzaghe was chasing a fight that didn't happen.
AS you just said "Boxing is a business." So when Joe became a BIG enough name, to earn both sides big enough money, the fights happened. That would make sense from a business point of view, right? Whereas fighting a no-name, who is CLEARLY extremely talented, would not have made sense back then, right?
So either way there's no dodging or ducking bollocks going on. The fights happen when they make business sense. ;)
Thank you ... because Fensters post saved me some typing...& to
zhubin There is a very naive school of thought by us deluded JC fans .....
& THAT IS,
MAYBE, JUST MAYBE JOE CALZAGHE WAS SIMPLY TOO BIG A RISK TO TAKE UNLESS THEY WAS TO BE GIVEN FORT KNOX FOR THERE EFFORTS BACK THEN.....
& Had Joe not gone to the states eventually, the fights would never have been made .... because Hopkins & Jones sure as hell had made it clear enough that there was no way that they would be coming to Europe let alone GB any time soon FACT.
3 Other Facts.....
1) No, I wasn't Joking...But surely you was when saying ..
"George Foreman could come out of retirement....fight Joe and lose....and some of y'all would find a way to dress that up as an accomplishment"
2) No, Im not ignorant, But to high-lite a pretty good deifnition of what ignorance is read the above quote from yourself, because for you to typcast JC fans per se as if we are robotic & lacking in any boxing insite where JC is concerned ... & for you to presume that Im some kinda JC cheer leader that bats his eye lashes at anything he does in the ring ...IS IGNORANT...
3) However, whatever, whenever....JC went to the states when it made good sense (A buisness you said, did you read the beggining of your post) & beat both the fighters that you mention & got more money than he would have a decade ago....
:badass::badass::badass:
I apologize for writing that you might be ignorant. When things get heated...sometimes things are said that should't be. Fenster, the business end of boxing is a he said/she said affair. One fighter/promoter can say one thing...while another has a completely different side of the story. And let's say the Bernard fight wasn't his fault...that still doesn't excuse the majority of his career, until just recently, being in Wales. I am fully aware of Calzaghe's p4p status...but that doesn't translate to him being a "big name"...especially here in the states. The PPV sales for the Jones fight where very disappointing...imagine if Calzaghe was fighting someone of a lesser name than Jones here.
Re: Calzaghe ducked the best?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
zhubin
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bambamdaddio
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
There's enough quotes and stories from people involved with Hopkins and Calzaghe to SHOW Calzaghe was chasing a fight that didn't happen.
AS you just said "Boxing is a business." So when Joe became a BIG enough name, to earn both sides big enough money, the fights happened. That would make sense from a business point of view, right? Whereas fighting a no-name, who is CLEARLY extremely talented, would not have made sense back then, right?
So either way there's no dodging or ducking bollocks going on. The fights happen when they make business sense. ;)
Thank you ... because Fensters post saved me some typing...& to
zhubin There is a very naive school of thought by us deluded JC fans .....
& THAT IS,
MAYBE, JUST MAYBE JOE CALZAGHE WAS SIMPLY TOO BIG A RISK TO TAKE UNLESS THEY WAS TO BE GIVEN FORT KNOX FOR THERE EFFORTS BACK THEN.....
& Had Joe not gone to the states eventually, the fights would never have been made .... because Hopkins & Jones sure as hell had made it clear enough that there was no way that they would be coming to Europe let alone GB any time soon FACT.
3 Other Facts.....
1) No, I wasn't Joking...But surely you was when saying ..
"George Foreman could come out of retirement....fight Joe and lose....and some of y'all would find a way to dress that up as an accomplishment"
2) No, Im not ignorant, But to high-lite a pretty good deifnition of what ignorance is read the above quote from yourself, because for you to typcast JC fans per se as if we are robotic & lacking in any boxing insite where JC is concerned ... & for you to presume that Im some kinda JC cheer leader that bats his eye lashes at anything he does in the ring ...IS IGNORANT...
3) However, whatever, whenever....JC went to the states when it made good sense (A buisness you said, did you read the beggining of your post) & beat both the fighters that you mention & got more money than he would have a decade ago....
:badass::badass::badass:
I apologize for writing that you might be ignorant. When things get heated...sometimes things are said that should't be. Fenster, the business end of boxing is a he said/she said affair. One fighter/promoter can say one thing...while another has a completely different side of the story. And let's say the Bernard fight wasn't his fault...that still doesn't excuse the majority of his career, until just recently, being in Wales. I am fully aware of Calzaghe's p4p status...but that doesn't translate to him being a "big name"...especially here in the states. The PPV sales for the Jones fight where very disappointing...imagine if Calzaghe was fighting someone of a lesser name than Jones here.
The PPV sales were even WORSE for Hopkins-Pavlik (190,000). I think ALL the recent PPVs are doing bad?
But that's the whole point. Even when Calzaghe gained worldwide recognition as a P4P fighter, and with HBO backing, he still doesn't do great numbers in the States. Boxing is about money.
Calzaghe was a LESSER name back then. So maybe the fights didn't make sense to the likes of Roy and Hopkins. Why fight a dangerous foreigner that no one knows ;)
Re: Calzaghe ducked the best?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
zhubin
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bambamdaddio
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
There's enough quotes and stories from people involved with Hopkins and Calzaghe to SHOW Calzaghe was chasing a fight that didn't happen.
AS you just said "Boxing is a business." So when Joe became a BIG enough name, to earn both sides big enough money, the fights happened. That would make sense from a business point of view, right? Whereas fighting a no-name, who is CLEARLY extremely talented, would not have made sense back then, right?
So either way there's no dodging or ducking bollocks going on. The fights happen when they make business sense. ;)
Thank you ... because Fensters post saved me some typing...& to
zhubin There is a very naive school of thought by us deluded JC fans .....
& THAT IS,
MAYBE, JUST MAYBE JOE CALZAGHE WAS SIMPLY TOO BIG A RISK TO TAKE UNLESS THEY WAS TO BE GIVEN FORT KNOX FOR THERE EFFORTS BACK THEN.....
& Had Joe not gone to the states eventually, the fights would never have been made .... because Hopkins & Jones sure as hell had made it clear enough that there was no way that they would be coming to Europe let alone GB any time soon FACT.
3 Other Facts.....
1) No, I wasn't Joking...But surely you was when saying ..
"George Foreman could come out of retirement....fight Joe and lose....and some of y'all would find a way to dress that up as an accomplishment"
2) No, Im not ignorant, But to high-lite a pretty good deifnition of what ignorance is read the above quote from yourself, because for you to typcast JC fans per se as if we are robotic & lacking in any boxing insite where JC is concerned ... & for you to presume that Im some kinda JC cheer leader that bats his eye lashes at anything he does in the ring ...IS IGNORANT...
3) However, whatever, whenever....JC went to the states when it made good sense (A buisness you said, did you read the beggining of your post) & beat both the fighters that you mention & got more money than he would have a decade ago....
:badass::badass::badass:
I apologize for writing that you might be ignorant. When things get heated...sometimes things are said that should't be. Fenster, the business end of boxing is a he said/she said affair. One fighter/promoter can say one thing...while another has a completely different side of the story. And let's say the Bernard fight wasn't his fault...that still doesn't excuse the majority of his career, until just recently, being in Wales. I am fully aware of Calzaghe's p4p status...but that doesn't translate to him being a "big name"...especially here in the states. The PPV sales for the Jones fight where very disappointing...imagine if Calzaghe was fighting someone of a lesser name than Jones here.
Mate apologies fully accepted ... ill take you of my ignorant list now lol, & no worries re getting heated ... we all do it & I think we will both agree that where JC is concerned opinions in some areas will always be divided ... & a good job too as we would not be on forums debating would we:lolololol:
:badass::badass::badass:
Re: Calzaghe ducked the best?
Lol ... even if ya dont agree with Fenster ... what he states & the facts he uses really do make sense tho...
Lots of sense too :lolololol:
:badass::badass::badass:
Re: Calzaghe ducked the best?
Bernard Hopkins for whatever reason priced himself out, and RJJ was too big of a star at that time, he didn't need Joe Calzaghe and didn't need to take the risk. Thats about it really Joe Calzaghe couldn't have really made many better choices, except move up to Light Heavyweight a few years ago.
When he said he was tight at the weight and im pretty sure he would of got a big fight, but then theres the flipside that if he would of done that. He wouldn't of been able to fight Mikkel Kessler, Jeff Lacy. Which were big wins for him.
Theres few names here and there he could of fought at Super Middleweight, but overall he's done very well with his career. And if i was Joe Calzaghe i wouldn't really look back and say i missed any big opportunities.
It is a shame though Joe Calzaghe was a bit too young to fight fighters like Steve Collins, Mike McCallum, Nigel Benn, James Toney, ETC. I think he came along too late when all our best british fighters had retired or ETC. And most of the top American fighters had moved up in a different weightclass.
Re: Calzaghe ducked the best?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Bernard Hopkins for whatever reason priced himself out, and RJJ was too big of a star at that time, he didn't need Joe Calzaghe and didn't need to take the risk. Thats about it really Joe Calzaghe couldn't have really made many better choices, except move up to Light Heavyweight a few years ago.
When he said he was tight at the weight and im pretty sure he would of got a big fight, but then theres the flipside that if he would of done that. He wouldn't of been able to fight Mikkel Kessler, Jeff Lacy. Which were big wins for him.
Theres few names here and there he could of fought at Super Middleweight, but overall he's done very well with his career. And if i was Joe Calzaghe i wouldn't really look back and say i missed any big opportunities.
It is a shame though Joe Calzaghe was a bit too young to fight fighters like Steve Collins, Mike McCallum, Nigel Benn, James Toney, ETC. I think he came along too late when all our best british fighters had retired or ETC. And most of the top American fighters had moved up in a different weightclass.
Simple but fair comment bud :coolclick:
:badass::badass::badass:
Re: Calzaghe ducked the best?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
zhubin
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
There's enough quotes and stories from people involved with Hopkins and Calzaghe to SHOW Calzaghe was chasing a fight that didn't happen.
AS you just said "Boxing is a business." So when Joe became a BIG enough name, to earn both sides big enough money, the fights happened. That would make sense from a business point of view, right? Whereas fighting a no-name, who is CLEARLY extremely talented, would not have made sense back then, right?
So either way there's no dodging or ducking bollocks going on. The fights happen when they make business sense. ;)
Nice try. I never said Joe was a "no name"...i said he was not a superstar. And was there a news flash i missed...is Joe, even NOW, a BIG name here in the states? And how convenient...that in Joe's mind (and the mind of some of his fans) he became a "big name" just recently...and hence finally fought Roy and Bernard when they are both over 40. If Joe had the balls back then to come to the states...you don't think Jones and Hopkins would have fought him? Bottom line...Joe Calzaghe didn't actively pursue to come here, to the states (where boxing is at it's biggest stage), years ago. You can sugar coat his career anyway you want...but the smokescreen that are his recent fights here don't make up for his padded record at the comforts of his home in Wales for the majority of his career.
Nice try?
From your first post i thought you was making a reasonable point.. but now i'm thinking you just want to bash Calzaghe. :rolleyes:
Joe is currently a TOP THREE ranked P4P fighter (using The Ring). He never entered the The Ring P4P ratings until he beat Lacy. On the back of that performance, he was snapped up by HBO.. and in turn was able to land BIG money fights against the likes of Hopkins and Roy. That would make him a RECENT big name, no?
Here's shitty pants Joe trying to get a fight with Hopkins before becoming a BIG NAME -
"A teleconference was set up in my office in New York for July 30th, 2002, and on the call was myself, Don King who was in the room, Frank Warren and Bernard Hopkins' lawyer, Arnold Joseph. Along with Arnold was a woman named Linda Carter, who was there on behalf of Bernard. We asked Arnold if Bernard wanted to fight Joe Calzaghe and we asked him how much money would he want if he did. The response we got was $3million and the fight would have to take place in the United States. After a little scratching of the head, we said 'Okay, done.' Frank Warren agreed on the spot, Don King agreed and we agreed so as far as we were concerned all parties were singing off the one hymm sheet. Arnold excused himself with Linda and I can only assume it was to call Bernard. Either that day or the next day, they came with a new demand: $6million, double the sum that had been agreed, the deal blew up.....he had then and still has no desire to fight Joe Calzaghe, that much is pretty clear.
Joe gets criticised sometimes for not having fought the big-name Americans, but in this case the fault has never rested with him."
- Jay Larkin, then Showtime TV Network's Senior Vice-President of Sports and Event Programming.
What did Joe do wrong here? It shows he was TRYING to make a fight with Hopkins in the States, no?
;)
What if he had gone to the States and fought Lacy early on and destroyed what they all were calling the next big thing?
That would have cemented his place there and either the line up for him would have happened or fighters would have ran away from him (really exposing themselves),one way or the other it would have worked wonders ;so I say Yes he should have gone earlier,Lacy or one of the others who cares ,the money would of been there after the first fight and after he is proven on those grounds.He should of gone and cemented his legacy first and the money would of poured over him anyway.
He fought Lacy eventually and Lacy although exposed some, was still much more experienced than those early years ,so where is Joes credit for that?
Its from those who now say;"Oh Lacy wasn't all what we first thought".
What about Pavlic if he gets another red mark against him but someone else who his style doesnt beat?
Will they place him in the (He wasn't all what first thought ) class too?
Then Bernards amazing job on him will look like less as well.
Im from Australia I was yelling for Roy against Joe(cause I like what he bought to the game and his interesting fight style) but hey I got to give Joe credit he went the long way around and he has done the job,and he came off the canvas to do it too. He just took a long time securing what he thought he was entitled to so he swapped more cash for less legacy.
Wrong choice I think,but still great what he's done and the records show it.
Re: Calzaghe ducked the best?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
zhubin
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Originally Posted by
bambamdaddio
Thank you ... because Fensters post saved me some typing...& to zhubin There is a very naive school of thought by us deluded JC fans .....
& THAT IS,
MAYBE, JUST MAYBE JOE CALZAGHE WAS SIMPLY TOO BIG A RISK TO TAKE UNLESS THEY WAS TO BE GIVEN FORT KNOX FOR THERE EFFORTS BACK THEN.....
& Had Joe not gone to the states eventually, the fights would never have been made .... because Hopkins & Jones sure as hell had made it clear enough that there was no way that they would be coming to Europe let alone GB any time soon FACT.
3 Other Facts.....
1) No, I wasn't Joking...But surely you was when saying ..
"George Foreman could come out of retirement....fight Joe and lose....and some of y'all would find a way to dress that up as an accomplishment"
2) No, Im not ignorant, But to high-lite a pretty good deifnition of what ignorance is read the above quote from yourself, because for you to typcast JC fans per se as if we are robotic & lacking in any boxing insite where JC is concerned ... & for you to presume that Im some kinda JC cheer leader that bats his eye lashes at anything he does in the ring ...IS IGNORANT...
3) However, whatever, whenever....JC went to the states when it made good sense (A buisness you said, did you read the beggining of your post) & beat both the fighters that you mention & got more money than he would have a decade ago....
:badass::badass::badass:
I apologize for writing that you might be ignorant. When things get heated...sometimes things are said that should't be. Fenster, the business end of boxing is a he said/she said affair. One fighter/promoter can say one thing...while another has a completely different side of the story. And let's say the Bernard fight wasn't his fault...that still doesn't excuse the majority of his career, until just recently, being in Wales. I am fully aware of Calzaghe's p4p status...but that doesn't translate to him being a "big name"...especially here in the states. The PPV sales for the Jones fight where very disappointing...imagine if Calzaghe was fighting someone of a lesser name than Jones here.
The PPV sales were even WORSE for Hopkins-Pavlik (190,000). I think ALL the recent PPVs are doing bad?
But that's the whole point. Even when Calzaghe gained worldwide recognition as a P4P fighter, and with HBO backing, he still doesn't do great numbers in the States. Boxing is about money.
Calzaghe was a LESSER name back then. So maybe the fights didn't make sense to the likes of Roy and Hopkins. Why fight a dangerous foreigner that no one knows ;)
What also screws the pooch,is Hopkins really wanted Jones,probably not anymore,but Bernard spent years calling out Jones.I think Roy was smart enough to know what alot of us allready did,he's shot,and wanted no part of it. He only finally took Calzeghe for a paycheck
Re: Calzaghe ducked the best?
For me the argument that Calzaghe isnt all that cos he stayed away from the US and only went there at the end of his career is a non starter.Everybody says how he only fought Hopkins and Jones jr at the end of their careers,But nobody mentions that Joe is also at the end of his career,And his best days are behind him,You would think that Joe fought them in his prime by the one sided arguments.Who cares that he didnt go to the US,Boxing does exist outside the US,Two of Joes earliest wins were against Nigel Benn and Chris Eubank,Two British legends.The plain fact is that if Joe was American he would be the dogs bollocks but cos he aint the US dont want to know.
