I just watched Pacquiao-Marquez 2

Marquez being” more aggressive” need be qualified. ..If it meant like not backpedalling is “being more aggressive” then it is then. They were forced to as Marquez need to get off his counter ways, as I am sure, their camp felt a deficit after the ninth and tenth.

However, the same Pacquiao is what you will see, did not change, still poking and punching.
If Pacquiao refusing to foolishly lunge and get caught is perceived as cautious, then let it be. It was in the judges eyes, enough to win, as what all they saw from Marquez was make it difficult for Pacquiao to knock him out.

I too will score round 1 for Pac. After reviewing it, and as was egged on by C-Lo’s post.
Round 1:
A lot of misses up until …
2:25, when a left right from Pacquiao landed but unseen through the eyes of Moe, Larry and Curly.
The initial left was blocked, but the right definitely landed on the jaw.
2:12 a lead left, landed from Pac. There is nothing much scoring for Marquez, up to this point.
1:11 they saw a phantom counter from JMM, and failed to see that prior to that…
1:12 a solid body punch landed with power, a right in the stomach, from Pac.
1:07, Marquez landed his only telling blow. Which to the “Three Scholars” was enough to win the round for Marquez.
0:56 a clash of heads.
0:32 A miss by Pac and a miss by JMM, opened up for a flurry; right, right, left hook, and right hook from Pacquiao mostly scoring but minimal damaging blows. Which was answered by…
0:30/0:29 Two JMM low blows. Right low blow connected, right hook miss, low uppercut low blow miss.
They exchanged some more misses and grazes, like the rest of round 1.

jmm looked more aggressive then usually especially in the 12 cause he knew he needed the round more then pac. Pac was just boxing him, some people at first thought jmm won cause pac didnt knock him out. those are casual fan way of scoring. Pacs defense was unnotice cause he usually stays on the offense. He block a lot of jmm punches and countered with better shots then jmm did him. Look at the 3rd round kd and the 10th round when jmm almost falls out of the ring. For some reason pac box during his last few fights at 130 the second mab fight and the second jmm fight. I think it was true he had trouble making 130 so he kept a slower pace and box instead of his usually tazmanian onslaught. Botton line it was a close match, and pacs boxing skill and defense is undderated. :)

1:07, Marquez landed his only telling blow. Which to the “Three Scholars” was enough to win the round for Marquez. It was a left right. The left was caught a bit on the gloves, but my, the right straight was beautifully placed, right smack on PacMan's face.

The fact that Pacquiao's improper balance and odd body language after receiving blows, made the smackers even more prominent.

So to Moe, Larry and Curly... score the round for Marquez. I guess their stock did not rise after that night.

And where off.......

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Originally Posted by ICB

And where off.......

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ice did you hear jmm say he is willing to come up to 147 to fight pac again? ;D these two have the best rivalry ever no fucking doubt. Its two of todays best with two needle thin close fights. Fucking legends :D

IMO Pacquiao needs to fight guys like Mayweather, Hatton, Cotto right now. I don't see him fighting JMM bringing that kind of attention and money to the sport as the other three.

Another thing I see is that Pacquiao obviously has troubles with JMM's style, but when fighting other guys Pacquiao is the superior fighter by a bit. I mean look at their back to back fights wtih Barrera, Pacquiao had that fight in the bag from round one, easily outboxing Marco. MAB-JMM was a close fight until close to the end when Barrera started getting tired, but it was competitive and close the whole way through. I honestly think JMM wouldn't have beaten Oscar even on that night, being orthodox, Oscar would have had no problems landing his jab on Marquez or his left hook, and I don't see JMM being able to deal with his power, Pacquiao was unorthodox enough to make Oscar miss, and have Oscar guessing, but JMM is a classic fighter, and Oscar and most boxers do better against that type of opponent.

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by KananKrus

If you let the commentators sway your view for the 11th and the 12th, then you definitely will give both rounds to JMM. Actually if you do so, then even just after the 2nd round, right before the Marquez kissing the canvas, it was predicted, by one of the color commentators that Pacquiao will be knocked out. A biased statement as commentators is wont to do. Pacquiao would have already lost!

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I've watched the fight with and without commentary, and what has the commentary got to do with this anyway ? i remember them clearly being on Manny Pacquiao's side not JMM's side.

Harold Ledderman had Manny Pacquiao winning, Emanuel Steward kept going on about how great Manny Pacquiao's upper body movement was. And his timing so i don't really see your point.

And even if they were on JMM's side which they wern't. I wouldn't listen anyway i've got my own views.

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I viewed this intially PPV HBO version, but was unable to tape it. What I have is a DVD is from Solar Sports, most probably a feed from Top Rank. The color commentaries I am referring to are those from Allen Masengale, Wally Matthews, and Rich Marotta (guessed the spelling of their names)

HBO commentaries might have been impartial unlike the ones I've mentioned. So that volume lowering doesn't apply to you nor, other HBO influenced watchers. Wouldn't it be if they were from Top Rank, that they should have been doing the opposite?

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Originally Posted by Julius Rain

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Originally Posted by ICB

And where off.......

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ice did you hear jmm say he is willing to come up to 147 to fight pac again? ;D these two have the best rivalry ever no fucking doubt. Its two of todays best with two needle thin close fights. Fucking legends :D

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Im just glad im old enough to appreciate it.

I thought HBO was humping JMM's ass, saying that he was making Pacquiao look like an amateur, and Lampley kept on saying punches that were missing for JMM were scoring, and many times he didn't give Pacquiao credit for what he was landing.

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Originally Posted by Taeth

I thought HBO was humping JMM's ass, saying that he was making Pacquiao look like an amateur, and Lampley kept on saying punches that were missing for JMM were scoring, and many times he didn't give Pacquiao credit for what he was landing.

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Very true. There was an awkward moment for Lampley when Steward suddenly threw a compliment on Pacquiao's defense and boxing while he's on this 'big right hand from Marquez!!' phrase frenzy. after a brief moment of silence he resumed with a his favorite line 'another big right hand by Marquez!!!' IMO Marquez is clearly not landing any clean shot and is getting hit with short punches more than any round of his 2 fights with Pacquio.

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Originally Posted by Taeth

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Originally Posted by the_pRoDiGy

I still can't believe how Pac dismantled Oscar and I got into this mood watching his exciting fights so I watched his last fight with Marquez again and IMO it seems like Pac really won. It was close when you look at the compubox numbers or Marquez should have even won if we looked at it punch for punch coz everytime Marquez landed his shots it was consecutive punches and was pretty and well timed plus Pac is out of balanced whenever he got hit.BUT.When I scored it round by round to me Pac clearly won.

rd 1. 10-9 Marquez
it was very close but got to give it to him for the tempo

rd 2. 10-9 Marquez
hit Pac with a great combo and a vicious left hook to end it

rd 3. 10-8 Pacquiao
scored a KD from a big left cross

rd 4. 10-9 Pacquiao
fed off the momentum of the KD

rd 5. 10-9 Marquez
recovered well and begins to connect with the right at will

rd 6. 10-9 Marquez
slow paced round and he landed the most telling shot

rd 7. 10-9 Pacquiao
accidental headbutt.a very close round but the tempo and the exchanges were in favor of him

rd 8. 10-9 Marquez
dominant round for him.connected big right hands that opened a cut on Pac's right eye.Pac was clearly bothered

rd 9. 10-9 Pacquiao
came back with his own connections of left hand that busted Marquez's right eye

rd 10. 10-9 Pacquiao
almost scored a KD and threw a barrage of flurries on a wobbled Marquez

rd 11. 10-9 Pacquiao
he seems to have figured out how to stay away from Marquez's right and sustained attacks continously

rd 12 10-10
Even.I can't say enough about this round. Marquez seems desperate and is throwing it all out but Pac is blocking almost all of it while still connecting even with less power. I initially gave it to Marquez but when I watched it again,like Manny Steward stated I too was impressed by how Pac defended the onslaught so I gave it to him. I can see why Lederman gave it to Pac. But most people say Marquez threw enough to get the round.Won't matter though IMO.

115-113 Pacquiao

IMO even if Marquez won the 12th he would have still lost because of the KD.

There were 3 very close rounds.(1, 7, 12) I scored the 1st for Marquez (HBO for Pac) the 7th in favor of Pac (everyone seems to agree) and the controversial 12th even.

But I if we give it all to Marquez he would win 7 rounds and may have salvaged a 114-113 win. If I give Pac those 3 close rounds he would win with comfortable 116-111 decision.

I think Marquez won in the CompuBox stats. and by how lopsided it looked during the rounds he won. Plus I think most people are assuming that because the fight went the distance it should have been Marquez's fight. Yes it was indeed a great gameplan by Marquez and he definitely made Pac looked most awkward and uncomfortable whenever they fight.But boxing is scored round by round so I don't think people should questioned Pac's victory saying Marquez got robbed. Let's give the man the credit he deserves and let's look at him as a fighter continually improving and entertaining us like he always does.


P.S.
I knew I'm still in awe from last saturday's fight but I think I didn't looked or sounded like a hugger. Do I liked Pacquiao? Yes.. but I'm not quite there yet. ;D

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I don't see how you gave 1 or two to Marquez, but I didn't have the last four 3-0-1 in favor of Pacquiao I thought Marquez won a round or two in tehre, all in all I had the same outcome, but my rounds are arranged differently.

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the 9th was the round he opened a cut on Marquez's right eyelid. the 10th is when he connected with a left that wobbled Marquez. the 11th and the 12th are the rounds that I thought were very decisive and for most people were both in favored of Marquez. But IMO Pacquiao may have not lost a round (until now ;D) since the 8th round and carried the 'boxing' and 'defense' of those last two rounds into the fights with Diaz and Oscar.

Ive seen the fight about 5 times now and every time i come to the same 114-113 marquez verdict.

For all of pacquiao`s apparent "defensive work" he was just getting out worked by marquez who was not only throwing more but also landing more.

All the major power was in pacquiaos left hand but those straight punches were few and far between in the 2nd fight and manny actually had to really go to work in the 2nd half of the fight when it was becoming quite clear JMM was nicking round after round through sheer workrate

I scored it similarly with prodigy. ICB was clearly not scoring it properly during the fight as he was watching it via streaming. He even called it as robbery when PAcquaio was announced as the winner.

Without being biased, it was really difficult to score the fight but I had to give it to Pacquaio for landing the bigger shots.

114-113 for Pacquaio.

I posted my round by round scoring somewhere (i've watched it many times with my dvd copy and suffice it to say that Pacquaio won that fight, IMO). I don't like to dig prior posts.hehehe.

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Originally Posted by brucelee

I scored it similarly with prodigy. ICB was clearly not scoring it properly during the fight as he was watching it via streaming. He even called it as robbery when PAcquaio was announced as the winner.

Without being biased, it was really difficult to score the fight but I had to give it to Pacquaio for landing the bigger shots.

114-113 for Pacquaio.

I posted my round by round scoring somewhere (i've watched it many times with my dvd copy and suffice it to say that Pacquaio won that fight, IMO). I don't like to dig prior posts.hehehe.

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Uhh did you read what i said ? i just rewatched the fight and scored it again. And do you know how hard it is to score a fight, while watching a fight on a stream and trying to type on here all at the sametime ? atleast i bothered to do it otherwise you would of had no RBR.

And did i not correct my scoring when i rewatched it ? and say i was wrong ? so why are you bringing up this for ? do you want me to bring up all the old times when you were wrong ?