Celestino "THE TOWERING INFERNO" Caballero cracks Ring Mag's P4P List

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by killersheep

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Originally Posted by ICB

What about Tomasz Adamek ? Eric Harding ?

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Eric Harding didn't mean shit at that point of Harding's career. Adamek on the other hand is a huge win. Still, Point in fact Caballero is a unified strap holder in one of, if not the deepest division in boxing. His wins over an undefeated DPDL and Molitor are a huge acheivement.

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I think Adamek and Tarver are bigger wins than Molitor and De Leon personally, Adamek is now the Ring Champion at cruiserweight and Tarver has been the Ring Champ at light heavyweight and looked great in regaining his title over Clinton Woods in the fight prior.

I like Molitor but let's be real he was a paper champ, hadn't fought anyone remotely world class. De Leon, well I think he's been exposed a bit now.

Cabellero is definitely fighting in the strongest division, but he's not faced any of the best in that division yet, Vazquez, Marquez, Lopez are still fights that need to be made.

But I don't really object to him being there, he certainly looked great in taking Molitor apart and he'll spell trouble for anyone in that division.

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Well first off Vazquez and Marquez have spent the last two years fighting only each other and rumors point to the next match being against each other as well, so it's hard to hold that against anyone else at 122. Second Lopez is just coming up in the ranks Caballero called out all three of the guys you listed. Lopez's big win was an impressed KO over DPDL, but Caballero was the first man to beat DPDL. Lopez is already in talks with Penalosa too. Caballero is fighting the best fighters that are available to him.

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Originally Posted by killersheep

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by killersheep

Eric Harding didn't mean shit at that point of Harding's career. Adamek on the other hand is a huge win. Still, Point in fact Caballero is a unified strap holder in one of, if not the deepest division in boxing. His wins over an undefeated DPDL and Molitor are a huge acheivement.

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I think Adamek and Tarver are bigger wins than Molitor and De Leon personally, Adamek is now the Ring Champion at cruiserweight and Tarver has been the Ring Champ at light heavyweight and looked great in regaining his title over Clinton Woods in the fight prior.

I like Molitor but let's be real he was a paper champ, hadn't fought anyone remotely world class. De Leon, well I think he's been exposed a bit now.

Cabellero is definitely fighting in the strongest division, but he's not faced any of the best in that division yet, Vazquez, Marquez, Lopez are still fights that need to be made.

But I don't really object to him being there, he certainly looked great in taking Molitor apart and he'll spell trouble for anyone in that division.

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Well first off Vazquez and Marquez have spent the last two years fighting only each other and rumors point to the next match being against each other as well, so it's hard to hold that against anyone else at 122. Second Lopez is just coming up in the ranks Caballero called out all three of the guys you listed. Lopez's big win was an impressed KO over DPDL, but Caballero was the first man to beat DPDL. Lopez is already in talks with Penalosa too. Caballero is fighting the best fighters that are available to him.

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Yeah I agree completely and know he'd fght those other guys in a heartbeat. I'm just saying I don't personally think wins over Molitor and De Leon equate to Tarver and Adamek imo.

Tarver has been to the very top of this sport, a Ring champ and many times world champ with wins over the best lightheavies in the world, Adamek is a two weight world champ and the current ring champ at cruiser.

Compare with De Leon who wasn't even a world champ when Cab fought him and Molitor who has fought nobody whatsoever they just don't equate to being Ring champs or former Ring champs.

I personally would have Dawson above Cab along with Paul Williams, maybe still Kelly Pavlik.

Cab just strikes me as a Christian Mijares type placement, not really done enough to justify a place in the top 10 as he's never unified a division or been number 1 in that division.

Juan Diaz before the campbell loss had done more at lightweight and wasn't on the p4p rankings that's all I'm saying.

Juan Guzman as well possibly deserves ranking higher, a bona fida two weight world champ, unbeaten with big wins over Soto and Barrios although weight shame obviously went against him. Even David Haye did a better job of unifying the cruiserweight division knocking out both the number 1 and 2 opponents, all I'm saying Cab hasn't done that, sure he hasn't had the opportunity to yet but still let's wait until we see what he does in those fights before we place him amongst the world's elite.

I can't think of any other fighter on the rankings list who got there by beating the kind of opposition Cab has, all the rest have beaten the men and been at the top of their divisions to earn their spots, Cab is number 3 in his weight class.

Still he's a tough and awkward fighter though and considering the damage both Rafa and Israel have inflicted upon each other in recent years he could be primed to take over.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by killersheep

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

I think Adamek and Tarver are bigger wins than Molitor and De Leon personally, Adamek is now the Ring Champion at cruiserweight and Tarver has been the Ring Champ at light heavyweight and looked great in regaining his title over Clinton Woods in the fight prior.

I like Molitor but let's be real he was a paper champ, hadn't fought anyone remotely world class. De Leon, well I think he's been exposed a bit now.

Cabellero is definitely fighting in the strongest division, but he's not faced any of the best in that division yet, Vazquez, Marquez, Lopez are still fights that need to be made.

But I don't really object to him being there, he certainly looked great in taking Molitor apart and he'll spell trouble for anyone in that division.

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Well first off Vazquez and Marquez have spent the last two years fighting only each other and rumors point to the next match being against each other as well, so it's hard to hold that against anyone else at 122. Second Lopez is just coming up in the ranks Caballero called out all three of the guys you listed. Lopez's big win was an impressed KO over DPDL, but Caballero was the first man to beat DPDL. Lopez is already in talks with Penalosa too. Caballero is fighting the best fighters that are available to him.

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Yeah I agree completely and know he'd fght those other guys in a heartbeat. I'm just saying I don't personally think wins over Molitor and De Leon equate to Tarver and Adamek imo.

Tarver has been to the very top of this sport, a Ring champ and many times world champ with wins over the best lightheavies in the world, Adamek is a two weight world champ and the current ring champ at cruiser.

Compare with De Leon who wasn't even a world champ when Cab fought him and Molitor who has fought nobody whatsoever they just don't equate to being Ring champs or former Ring champs.

I personally would have Dawson above Cab along with Paul Williams, maybe still Kelly Pavlik.

Cab just strikes me as a Christian Mijares type placement, not really done enough to justify a place in the top 10 as he's never unified a division or been number 1 in that division.

Juan Diaz before the campbell loss had done more at lightweight and wasn't on the p4p rankings that's all I'm saying.

Juan Guzman as well possibly deserves ranking higher, a bona fida two weight world champ, unbeaten with big wins over Soto and Barrios although weight shame obviously went against him. Even David Haye did a better job of unifying the cruiserweight division knocking out both the number 1 and 2 opponents, all I'm saying Cab hasn't done that, sure he hasn't had the opportunity to yet but still let's wait until we see what he does in those fights before we place him amongst the world's elite.

I can't think of any other fighter on the rankings list who got there by beating the kind of opposition Cab has, all the rest have beaten the men and been at the top of their divisions to earn their spots, Cab is number 3 in his weight class.

Still he's a tough and awkward fighter though and considering the damage both Rafa and Israel have inflicted upon each other in recent years he could be primed to take over.

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I personally would have Dawson ahead in my own p4p rankings, but like I said earlier, I think the outrage is blown out of proportion. I don't think having Caballero is that crazy to have there, in fact I don't have a problem with it, that is the fundamental point I've been trying to make this whole time. Dawson really isn't helping his case by rematching Tarver either, that would be like Calzaghe giving an immediate rematch to Lacy. Cab DOES have wins over the current #5 and #6 Ring rated super bantams and at the time of beating DPDL and Molitor they were both ranked higher.

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Originally Posted by killersheep

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by killersheep

Well first off Vazquez and Marquez have spent the last two years fighting only each other and rumors point to the next match being against each other as well, so it's hard to hold that against anyone else at 122. Second Lopez is just coming up in the ranks Caballero called out all three of the guys you listed. Lopez's big win was an impressed KO over DPDL, but Caballero was the first man to beat DPDL. Lopez is already in talks with Penalosa too. Caballero is fighting the best fighters that are available to him.

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Yeah I agree completely and know he'd fght those other guys in a heartbeat. I'm just saying I don't personally think wins over Molitor and De Leon equate to Tarver and Adamek imo.

Tarver has been to the very top of this sport, a Ring champ and many times world champ with wins over the best lightheavies in the world, Adamek is a two weight world champ and the current ring champ at cruiser.

Compare with De Leon who wasn't even a world champ when Cab fought him and Molitor who has fought nobody whatsoever they just don't equate to being Ring champs or former Ring champs.

I personally would have Dawson above Cab along with Paul Williams, maybe still Kelly Pavlik.

Cab just strikes me as a Christian Mijares type placement, not really done enough to justify a place in the top 10 as he's never unified a division or been number 1 in that division.

Juan Diaz before the campbell loss had done more at lightweight and wasn't on the p4p rankings that's all I'm saying.

Juan Guzman as well possibly deserves ranking higher, a bona fida two weight world champ, unbeaten with big wins over Soto and Barrios although weight shame obviously went against him. Even David Haye did a better job of unifying the cruiserweight division knocking out both the number 1 and 2 opponents, all I'm saying Cab hasn't done that, sure he hasn't had the opportunity to yet but still let's wait until we see what he does in those fights before we place him amongst the world's elite.

I can't think of any other fighter on the rankings list who got there by beating the kind of opposition Cab has, all the rest have beaten the men and been at the top of their divisions to earn their spots, Cab is number 3 in his weight class.

Still he's a tough and awkward fighter though and considering the damage both Rafa and Israel have inflicted upon each other in recent years he could be primed to take over.

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I personally would have Dawson ahead in my own p4p rankings, but like I said earlier, I think the outrage is blown out of proportion. I don't think having Caballero is that crazy to have there, in fact I don't have a problem with it, that is the fundamental point I've been trying to make this whole time. Dawson really isn't helping his case by rematching Tarver either, that would be like Calzaghe giving an immediate rematch to Lacy. Cab DOES have wins over the current #5 and #6 Ring rated super bantams and at the time of beating DPDL and Molitor they were both ranked higher.

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Yeah I agree really not knocking his acomplishments. I do feel it's a bit premature as when you look at the rest of the list you are talking about either multiple weight champs or guys who have beaten the man in their division. Cab's acomplishments pale when you consider the rest on that list, he hasn't fought the top guys in his weight class yet and is no higher than 3 in his own weight class.

Pavlik lost to a genuine p4p legend last time out but he's still the man to beat and the Ring champ at middleweight and should be above Cabbelero imo who has so far just been picking up alphabet titles. And Paul Williams has proven himself with world title wins in two weight classes now. Dawson is unbeaten and beaten Ring champs not alphabet titlists.

I'd probably have Cab about 15 or so on my list.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by killersheep

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

Yeah I agree completely and know he'd fght those other guys in a heartbeat. I'm just saying I don't personally think wins over Molitor and De Leon equate to Tarver and Adamek imo.

Tarver has been to the very top of this sport, a Ring champ and many times world champ with wins over the best lightheavies in the world, Adamek is a two weight world champ and the current ring champ at cruiser.

Compare with De Leon who wasn't even a world champ when Cab fought him and Molitor who has fought nobody whatsoever they just don't equate to being Ring champs or former Ring champs.

I personally would have Dawson above Cab along with Paul Williams, maybe still Kelly Pavlik.

Cab just strikes me as a Christian Mijares type placement, not really done enough to justify a place in the top 10 as he's never unified a division or been number 1 in that division.

Juan Diaz before the campbell loss had done more at lightweight and wasn't on the p4p rankings that's all I'm saying.

Juan Guzman as well possibly deserves ranking higher, a bona fida two weight world champ, unbeaten with big wins over Soto and Barrios although weight shame obviously went against him. Even David Haye did a better job of unifying the cruiserweight division knocking out both the number 1 and 2 opponents, all I'm saying Cab hasn't done that, sure he hasn't had the opportunity to yet but still let's wait until we see what he does in those fights before we place him amongst the world's elite.

I can't think of any other fighter on the rankings list who got there by beating the kind of opposition Cab has, all the rest have beaten the men and been at the top of their divisions to earn their spots, Cab is number 3 in his weight class.

Still he's a tough and awkward fighter though and considering the damage both Rafa and Israel have inflicted upon each other in recent years he could be primed to take over.

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I personally would have Dawson ahead in my own p4p rankings, but like I said earlier, I think the outrage is blown out of proportion. I don't think having Caballero is that crazy to have there, in fact I don't have a problem with it, that is the fundamental point I've been trying to make this whole time. Dawson really isn't helping his case by rematching Tarver either, that would be like Calzaghe giving an immediate rematch to Lacy. Cab DOES have wins over the current #5 and #6 Ring rated super bantams and at the time of beating DPDL and Molitor they were both ranked higher.

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Yeah I agree really not knocking his acomplishments. I do feel it's a bit premature as when you look at the rest of the list you are talking about either multiple weight champs or guys who have beaten the man in their division. Cab's acomplishments pale when you consider the rest on that list, he hasn't fought the top guys in his weight class yet and is no higher than 3 in his own weight class.

Pavlik lost to a genuine p4p legend last time out but he's still the man to beat and the Ring champ at middleweight and should be above Cabbelero imo who has so far just been picking up alphabet titles. And Paul Williams has proven himself with world title wins in two weight classes now. Dawson is unbeaten and beaten Ring champs not alphabet titlists.

I'd probably have Cab about 15 or so on my list.

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Ultimately, p4p lists are meaningless in the scheme of boxing they are there for bragging rights and for marketing purposes. Noone fights for a p4p belt (except in the Fight Night video game series).

He'll get cracked if he ever gets in the ring with Juanma!

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Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN

He'll get cracked if he ever gets in the ring with Juanma!

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I would favor him over Lopez. I think his style is all wrong for him.

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Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN

He'll get cracked if he ever gets in the ring with Juanma!

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I favor Celestino "THE TOWERING INFERNO" Caballero over JuanMa... I even favor Caballero against Izzy or Rafa... I favor Caballero against anyone in the 122 division... ;)
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Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

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Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN

He'll get cracked if he ever gets in the ring with Juanma!

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I favor Celestino "THE TOWERING INFERNO" Caballero over JuanMa... I even favor Caballero against Izzy or Rafa... I favor Caballero against anyone in the 122 division... ;)
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Over Vazquez maybe. But not Marquez.

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

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Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN

He'll get cracked if he ever gets in the ring with Juanma!

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I favor Celestino "THE TOWERING INFERNO" Caballero over JuanMa... I even favor Caballero against Izzy or Rafa... I favor Caballero against anyone in the 122 division... ;)
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Over Vazquez maybe. But not Marquez.

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VD, I think the 3 brutal fights of Izzy vs. Rafa helped Caballero much... They softened each other that's why I picked Caba against any of the two... ;)
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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by Taeth

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

What flavor of the month? Caballero has been beating quality opposition since 2005. His resume easily trumps that of Haye. Kessler, Guzman and Lopez. He's worthy of his placement.

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Molitor I really like him as a tactician, but he would fold up and be blown in the wind by JML, Vazquez and Marquez.? Overrated super slow Ponce De Leon? Both PDL and Andrade fought Caballero and JML, Caballero beat Ponce De Leon over 12 rounds and Andrade was losing and was DQ'ed in 10, JML beat them in a combined 1 round.

Joan Guzman doens't have the quality opponents yet, but he is clearly better.

Kessler has Mundine and Calzaghe which is better than anything Caballero has fought. Not to mention Beyer, Eric Lucas, Andrade, and once again he is clearly better, giving Calzaghe one hell of a fight where he was just being outworked, but landing huge shots and hurting Calzaghe several times.

Haye beats him with Mormeck, Glen Kelly, Enzo Maccarinelli, even Monte Barrett is better name.

Clearly Jermain Taylor, Kessler, Wlad Klitschko, Especially Winky Wright despite his inactivity deserve the position more.

I mean Jermain Taylor was KO'ed once, but besides that lost a close fight to Pavlik, had two close fights with Hopkins, beat Ouma, destroyed Lacy.

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You need to really follow Boxing to really appreciate Caballero. Aside from De Leon and Molitor, Caballero also holds wins over Somsak Sithchatsomething (who was like 40-1 coming into the fight), the excellent Lorenzo Parra and the fading Mauricio Pastrana. Easily better than some of the fighters you listed.

Joan Guzman- You said it yourself. Doesn't have the quality opponents. He's very skilled. But so are Gamboa, Con and several other fighters. Why not list them?

David Haye- He has Mormeck. That's it. Enzo is crap. Glenn Kelly (are you fukking kidding me?) is beyound crap. Monte Barrett can't win a big fight if his life depended on it.

Mikkel Kessler- He's got some decent wins. But his career is going backwards. Him punking out against Miranda was a straight coward move.

Winky Wright- He ain't won a fight in almost 3 years. He's inactivity is killing him. But a win over Williams erases all that.

Jermain Taylor- I wouldn't have a problem if he's rated above Caballero. His resume is outstanding.

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Your going to criticize Glen Kelly then say Lorenzo Parra is a excellent fighter, he's ok at the top level at best, at 112, not 122. He's just lucky nobody strong came along in the 112 division or he would have been destroyed, I saw the fight he lost that belt, and he was KO'ed in what 3 rounds, and he didn't even make weight for that fight. Also how is Enzo crap? He has a lot of power, and handspeed, he beat one of the better cruiserweights in Wayne Braithwaite.

You can't say these guys are crap use Pastrana as an example of solid opposition, and the Thai is ok, but he has tremendously padded record.

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Originally Posted by Taeth

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by Taeth

Molitor I really like him as a tactician, but he would fold up and be blown in the wind by JML, Vazquez and Marquez.? Overrated super slow Ponce De Leon? Both PDL and Andrade fought Caballero and JML, Caballero beat Ponce De Leon over 12 rounds and Andrade was losing and was DQ'ed in 10, JML beat them in a combined 1 round.

Joan Guzman doens't have the quality opponents yet, but he is clearly better.

Kessler has Mundine and Calzaghe which is better than anything Caballero has fought. Not to mention Beyer, Eric Lucas, Andrade, and once again he is clearly better, giving Calzaghe one hell of a fight where he was just being outworked, but landing huge shots and hurting Calzaghe several times.

Haye beats him with Mormeck, Glen Kelly, Enzo Maccarinelli, even Monte Barrett is better name.

Clearly Jermain Taylor, Kessler, Wlad Klitschko, Especially Winky Wright despite his inactivity deserve the position more.

I mean Jermain Taylor was KO'ed once, but besides that lost a close fight to Pavlik, had two close fights with Hopkins, beat Ouma, destroyed Lacy.

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You need to really follow Boxing to really appreciate Caballero. Aside from De Leon and Molitor, Caballero also holds wins over Somsak Sithchatsomething (who was like 40-1 coming into the fight), the excellent Lorenzo Parra and the fading Mauricio Pastrana. Easily better than some of the fighters you listed.

Joan Guzman- You said it yourself. Doesn't have the quality opponents. He's very skilled. But so are Gamboa, Con and several other fighters. Why not list them?

David Haye- He has Mormeck. That's it. Enzo is crap. Glenn Kelly (are you fukking kidding me?) is beyound crap. Monte Barrett can't win a big fight if his life depended on it.

Mikkel Kessler- He's got some decent wins. But his career is going backwards. Him punking out against Miranda was a straight coward move.

Winky Wright- He ain't won a fight in almost 3 years. He's inactivity is killing him. But a win over Williams erases all that.

Jermain Taylor- I wouldn't have a problem if he's rated above Caballero. His resume is outstanding.

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Your going to criticize Glen Kelly then say Lorenzo Parra is a excellent fighter, he's ok at the top level at best, at 112, not 122. He's just lucky nobody strong came along in the 112 division or he would have been destroyed, I saw the fight he lost that belt, and he was KO'ed in what 3 rounds, and he didn't even make weight for that fight. Also how is Enzo crap? He has a lot of power, and handspeed, he beat one of the better cruiserweights in Wayne Braithwaite.

You can't say these guys are crap use Pastrana as an example of solid opposition, and the Thai is ok, but he has tremendously padded record.

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You serious? Parra has beaten very good fighters in Eric Morel, Takefumi Sakata x2 and Brahim Asloum (he's champion right now). And he did it in all of there back yards. Stop reading about fights instead of watching them. The fight in which Parra lost his title he was not knocked out. It was stopped after 3 rounds due to a knee problem. The same knee problem that kept him out of the ring for 15 months prior.

Answer me this. Who the fukk has Glen Kelly ever beat? No one. Not only has he lost every time he's stepped up in class, but he hasn't even been competitive. The guy is a D level fighter. Beating him means nothing. Why would you embassess yourself by listing him?

Maurico Pastrana smokes Monte Barrett status wise

Vic Darchinyan should be up there.