Taylor will fight Froch next and it will be in the USA. So we will see who finally is the best.
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Taylor will fight Froch next and it will be in the USA. So we will see who finally is the best.
We can agree to disagree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Froch has fought in America before.Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratTom, I respect that you are a fan of Froch's, but if he really wanted to fight top ten fighters - he would fight top ten fighters for less money and in unfriendly environments, like the US or Canada. Has he ever even fought outside of Nottingham? Let alone the UK? Has he ever accepted the raw end of the stick to get a bigger fight?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tam Seddon
For a good example, look to Timothy Bradley. No one outside of California had even heard of Tim Bradley. What did Tim Bradley do? He flew to London to fight a top five junior welter weight (Junior Witter) for low pay. Now he is a top contender who everyone is forced to pay attention to at junior welterweight.
With that being said, it looks like the Taylor fight is happening after all, and Froch is actually taking the lower pay and unfriendly environment:
Sky Sports | Boxing | News | Froch close to Taylor bout
Good move Froch. Win or lose, he gains a ton in notoriety.
I may have to eat my words :-X
Tim Bradley was the number one contender to Witter's WBC title. It's understandable he travelled.
Carl Froch is the champion, Taylor the challenger, yet Froch is still willing to travel to make the fight.
Taylor has never fought outside the states. He would rather NOT fight the champion than travel.
Froch's crime is clearly being a NON American based fighter.
Basically, it comes down to name recognition and notoriety versus having a belt (which I may add, was not taken from a champion, but won after it was vacated). You feel the belt should compel fighters to travel to you; I feel name recognition and notoriety are more important (At least given that the belt was just recently won and it was a belt vacated, not taken from a champion).
Take the current Calzaghe situation. Presently, he has people lined up to travel to Wales (Chad Dawson, Glen Johnson, and Bernard Hopkins have offered to travel there), let alone the UK, to fight him after he thoroughly dominated Roy Jones and beat Bernard Hopkins in the US. Because he has name recognition. Speaking of Calzaghe, why hasn't he fought Froch? Because even with a belt who the Froch is Froch?
However, my point wasn't Froch's need to travel outside the UK. Winning in fights outside your home country may be overrated. Froch can fight in the UK, without any criticism, as long as he has the draw and the leverage to compel big-names and worthy challengers to travel to the UK to fight him. More power to him if he can be a champion and compel everyone to come to him.
Would I expect him to travel to the US for an Allan Green or an Andre Ward fight? No way. Like you said he has the belt. But, in terms of notoriety, Jermain Taylor ain't no Allan Green or Andre Ward.
I don't think Froch's status as a NON american is the reason he has to travel. It is a lack of name recognition.
You never said that earlier -Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratWe can agree to disagree.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterFroch has fought in America before.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
Tim Bradley was the number one contender to Witter's WBC title. It's understandable he travelled.
Carl Froch is the champion, Taylor the challenger, yet Froch is still willing to travel to make the fight.
Taylor has never fought outside the states. He would rather NOT fight the champion than travel.
Froch's crime is clearly being a NON American based fighter.
Basically, it comes down to name recognition and notoriety versus having a belt (which I may add, was not taken from a champion, but won after it was vacated). You feel the belt should compel fighters to travel to you; I feel name recognition and notoriety are more important (At least given that the belt was just recently won and it was a belt vacated, not taken from a champion).
Take the current Calzaghe situation. Presently, he has people lined up to travel to Wales (Chad Dawson, Glen Johnson, and Bernard Hopkins have offered to travel there), let alone the UK, to fight him after he thoroughly dominated Roy Jones and beat Bernard Hopkins in the US. Because he has name recognition. Speaking of Calzaghe, why hasn't he fought Froch? Because even with a belt who the Froch is Froch?
However, my point wasn't Froch's need to travel outside the UK. Winning in fights outside your home country may be overrated. Froch can fight in the UK, without any criticism, as long as he has the draw and the leverage to compel big-names and worthy challengers to travel to the UK to fight him. More power to him if he can be a champion and compel everyone to come to him.
Would I expect him to travel to the US for an Allan Green or an Andre Ward fight? No way. Like you said he has the belt. But, in terms of notoriety, Jermain Taylor ain't no Allan Green or Andre Ward.
I don't think Froch's status as a NON american is the reason he has to travel. It is a lack of name recognition.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
I never said Froch shouldn't travel because he's champion. But give me some examples of the champion travelling to the challengers backyard?
Taylor is the bigger name. That's why he will get a significantly bigger purse. The problem is he REFUSES to travel whatever the circumstances. It takes two to tango.
Looks like it's happening now anyway ;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterYou never said that earlier -Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratWe can agree to disagree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Basically, it comes down to name recognition and notoriety versus having a belt (which I may add, was not taken from a champion, but won after it was vacated). You feel the belt should compel fighters to travel to you; I feel name recognition and notoriety are more important (At least given that the belt was just recently won and it was a belt vacated, not taken from a champion).
Take the current Calzaghe situation. Presently, he has people lined up to travel to Wales (Chad Dawson, Glen Johnson, and Bernard Hopkins have offered to travel there), let alone the UK, to fight him after he thoroughly dominated Roy Jones and beat Bernard Hopkins in the US. Because he has name recognition. Speaking of Calzaghe, why hasn't he fought Froch? Because even with a belt who the Froch is Froch?
However, my point wasn't Froch's need to travel outside the UK. Winning in fights outside your home country may be overrated. Froch can fight in the UK, without any criticism, as long as he has the draw and the leverage to compel big-names and worthy challengers to travel to the UK to fight him. More power to him if he can be a champion and compel everyone to come to him.
Would I expect him to travel to the US for an Allan Green or an Andre Ward fight? No way. Like you said he has the belt. But, in terms of notoriety, Jermain Taylor ain't no Allan Green or Andre Ward.
I don't think Froch's status as a NON american is the reason he has to travel. It is a lack of name recognition.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
I never said Froch shouldn't travel because he's champion. But give me some examples of the champion travelling to the challengers backyard?
Taylor is the bigger name. That's why he will get a significantly bigger purse. The problem is he REFUSES to travel whatever the circumstances. It takes two to tango.
Looks like it's happening now anyway ;)
;D
But I was coming from different angles. The second angle was, should Froch be compelled to have to travel to the US to fight the Green's of the division? No way. With a belt he has the leverage.
The first angle was if I was Froch and wanted the name recognition, what I would do for my career.
My point was that, if I were Froch and I wanted to increase name recognition, I'd suck it up and go to the states and fight whomever so people would recognize me as the man at 68'. After winning a couple of tough fights, I'd fly back to Nottingham and let people come to me because I'd have the leverage.
Why the Froch defense anyway?
Huge props to Froch.
He's really not a fraud is he ?
He's prepared to go into Taylor's kingdom to fight him.
I'm not really defending Froch. I think it's hypocritical that he's EXPECTED to face Taylor in the States, at any cost, even though he's the champion, yet Taylor can REFUSE to even consider leaving his backyard.Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratQuote:
Originally Posted by FensterYou never said that earlier -Quote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
I never said Froch shouldn't travel because he's champion. But give me some examples of the champion travelling to the challengers backyard?
Taylor is the bigger name. That's why he will get a significantly bigger purse. The problem is he REFUSES to travel whatever the circumstances. It takes two to tango.
Looks like it's happening now anyway ;)
;D
But I was coming from different angles. The second angle was, should Froch be compelled to have to travel to the US to fight the Green's of the division? No way. With a belt he has the leverage.
The first angle was if I was Froch and wanted the name recognition, what I would do for my career.
My point was that, if I were Froch and I wanted to increase name recognition, I'd suck it up and go to the states and fight whomever so people would recognize me as the man at 68'. After winning a couple of tough fights, I'd fly back to Nottingham and let people come to me because I'd have the leverage.
Why the Froch defense anyway?
What are the other champs at 168 doing - Kessler, Bute and Balzsay? Taylor isn't being matched with these guys.
Froch seems to be TRYING to make a BIG fight at the very least. And bear in mind MOST people think Taylor will thrash him.
Saying and trying are 2 different things. Either way, even though this is a step backwards for Taylor I will reluctantly give him a pass. Just to shut Frauds 2 groupies up.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterI'm not really defending Froch. I think it's hypocritical that he's EXPECTED to face Taylor in the States, even though he's the champion, at any cost, yet Taylor can REFUSE to even consider leaving his backyard.Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratQuote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
;D
But I was coming from different angles. The second angle was, should Froch be compelled to have to travel to the US to fight the Green's of the division? No way. With a belt he has the leverage.
The first angle was if I was Froch and wanted the name recognition, what I would do for my career.
My point was that, if I were Froch and I wanted to increase name recognition, I'd suck it up and go to the states and fight whomever so people would recognize me as the man at 68'. After winning a couple of tough fights, I'd fly back to Nottingham and let people come to me because I'd have the leverage.
Why the Froch defense anyway?
What are the other champs at 168 doing - Kessler, Bute and Balzsay? Taylor isn't being matched with these guys.
Froch seems to be TRYING to make a BIG fight at the very least. And bear in mind MOST people think Taylor will thrash him.
Well that's the funny thing.. Froch has hardly ANY fans yet there's a notion on this site he is a hype job.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseSaying and trying are 2 different things. Either way, even though this is a step backwards for Taylor I will reluctantly give him a pass. Just to shut Frauds 2 groupies up.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterI'm not really defending Froch. I think it's hypocritical that he's EXPECTED to face Taylor in the States, even though he's the champion, at any cost, yet Taylor can REFUSE to even consider leaving his backyard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
What are the other champs at 168 doing - Kessler, Bute and Balzsay? Taylor isn't being matched with these guys.
Froch seems to be TRYING to make a BIG fight at the very least. And bear in mind MOST people think Taylor will thrash him.
That's why I said only 2. Tam and Fraud's mom.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterWell that's the funny thing.. Froch has hardly ANY fans yet there's a notion on this site he is a hype job.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseSaying and trying are 2 different things. Either way, even though this is a step backwards for Taylor I will reluctantly give him a pass. Just to shut Frauds 2 groupies up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
VD if Carl loses im not going to be a little groupie bitch and make up a load of excuses. I love boxing and I follow a lot of fighters, I like Carl is a fight, hes exciting and wants to be in with the best. He isnt a fraud in the slightest, he has beaten everyone put in front of him. That will continue when JT gets in the ring with him, mark my words on that. Froch will up his game every fight now, he had a very good fight with Pascal, he was firmly in control of it and won the majority of the rounds IMO.
JT is acting like he is the champion in this situation, that is not true at all. If JT is serious about being the best at 168 a fight with Froch HAS to happen and if that means coming to the UK then he has to get on with that. I know for a fact Froch will fight in the US!
Taylor needs to grow a pair of balls and put some risk on his record and I will respect him greatly for that. Not a lot of other 168 fighters would be willing to travel to fight Carl never mind fighting him.
You are aware that he has fought Hopkins (x2), Wright, Pavlik (x2) etc. I don't think Taylor is adverse to taking risky fights.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tam Seddon