Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RozzySean
Dude, you are so touchy. I didn't say Froch wasn't as good as Ward, I said he's not as punishing. And he's not. And as far has saying that Froch is closer to Ward than Calzaghe, let me break it down simply. Lets say the Joe Calzaghe gets an A+ grade as a fighter. Micky Ward gets a B grade as a fighter. Froch is a B+, not an A-. Kessler is an A-. There's a bigger gap between guys like Roy Jones, Calzaghe, James Toney, and Floyd Mayweather and Froch than there is between Froch and Ward.
Ward was one of the TOUGHEST fighters ever. Also, he had a style and a skillset that inflicted career changing punishment. Taylor might have gotten KO'd, but I doubt he was pissing blood for days like Gatti and Green did.
But both fighters use toughness, determination, and power to beat more athletically gifted opponents.
I'm not touchy at all mate, I enjoy these debates sorry if it comes as touchy but I never feel that way.
Anyway back on topic I can see your point although maybe I underestimate Micky Ward slightly. For me he was a tough but limited guy, on the same level as John Duddy maybe. To me he wasn't that damaging seeing as Gatti beat him 2-1 and went the distance every time whereas when he stepped up to the likes of Oscar, Floyd and even Angel Manfredy and Baldomir he got killed. If he'd have been forced to go 10 rounds with any of those guys he'd have been permenantly damaged.
I don't put Ward near Froch in terms of power or toughness. If Froch was the same size as Gatti he'd have ruined him a lot more than Ward did imo. Actually maybe that's not true as Gatti would have been stopped inside 5 or 6 rounds so maybe total damage accumalation would have been less.
But I do thing the difference in class between Ward and Froch is greater than between Froch and Calzaghe.
I'd give Froch a chance at least against Calzaghe, I'd not give Ward any chance whatosever against Ward pound for pound.
No offense, Baggins, but you are out of your mind on this one. Froch would have ZERO chance against Calzaghe. He would have ZERO chance against a true P4P talent like Prime Jones or Toney. Eubank, Benn, or Steve Collins would have destroyed him. It's not even close.
You don't put Ward near Froch in terms of power or toughness? Allow me to remind you of a few things about Gatti. The Manfredy stoppage was on a cut. Oscar was a P4P fighter in his prime and Gatti moved up in weight class to face him. He fought only 3 times at 140 before jumping up to face Oscar at 147. As for all the other stoppages 1. They call came after the 3 Ward fights. 2. Mayweather can punch at 140, Floyd was in him prime, and 140 is arguably his best weight. Oh, and he's the best fighter of our generation. 3. The Gomez and Baldy fights were at WW. Gatti never beat anybody decent at 147 and we all know he was shot at that point.
Many referees would have stopped Gatti/Ward 1 in round 9. He was out on his feet and taking shots. Go youtube it.
Froch has beaten TWO above average fighters. Yes, he beat a FORMER p4p fighter (from a lower weight class) after losing the first 8 rounds and getting knocked on his ass. In Calzaghe's whole career, he was never made to look as crappy as Taylor made Froch look for most of the fight. I don't ever remember Calzaghe needing a KO to win.
Here's a list of guys that Ward beat that are equal or near equal p4p to Froch's second best win, Pascal:
Gatti, Green, Augustus, Sanchez and Neary.
You'll see by the time Froch's career is over. Last week was probably his high water mark.
Let's say Miranda beats Ward and Dirrell becomes Froch's mandatory. He could very well lose that fight. Seriously. If Ward beats Miranda, I wouldn't be shocked if Ward beats Froch.
Pound for pound, I'd certainly give the edge to Froch, but if I had to compare Froch to somebody p4p from Ward's era and weight class, I'd probably say he's around the level of a prime Sharma Mitchell. A solid top 5-10 fighter in his weight class.
