Re: nigel benn on roy jones
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hattonthehammer
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JazMerkin
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hattonthehammer
you may have an argument for mccullum but i really dont see what the fascination was with toney.
Benn/Eubank were primarily seen by the american tv companys promoting jones as too big a risk for too little to gain hence the reason they never got to make their make stateside.
Had they of been in their prime nowadays ive no doubts in my mind both would currently be able to walk through the likes of kessler, froch, bute
I disagree in that I think Toney was one hell of a fighter, and if he had of had a good attitude, he would've really been something special, he's an amazingly naturally gifted fighter, just without almost any resolve or dedication to the sport.
I agree these guys in their prime would walk through most of the MW/SMW of present. I also think that some in the US drastically underrate the likes of Eubank & Benn. I don't think Benn would of beaten Jones, particularly not post-McClellan but he would have given him a good fight. Would have been better than RJJ fighting punching bags like Thornton
Eubank would of had a far greater opportunity of beating jones than benn would of done
Nigel for all his heart and spirit was at times too aggresive a fighter and often got caught out coming in which i suspect jones would of been able to do all night long.
Eubank on the other hand had the power and the ability to box off the back foot. Instead of attempting to weigh in at jones for 12rds he would of bided his moments and picked his attacks.
Jones-Eubank both in their primes would of been a complete pick`em fight!!
Eubank struggled with Watson twice in his prime, Jones was on a deifferent level to anything Eubank face, Jones would easily outpoint Eubank. Easy decision for Roy.
Re: nigel benn on roy jones
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taeth
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hattonthehammer
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taeth
Not trying to sound condescending, but Toney and McCullum are two of the finest fighters of the last twenty years in all of boxing, Benn and Eubanks fall spectacularly short of these two.
you may have an argument for mccullum but i really dont see what the fascination was with toney.
Benn/Eubank were primarily seen by the american tv companys promoting jones as too big a risk for too little to gain hence the reason they never got to make their make stateside.
Had they of been in their prime nowadays ive no doubts in my mind both would currently be able to walk through the likes of kessler, froch, bute
Kessler, no way, he is so underrated on here. Without being able to spar or hit the bags, Kessler still gave Calzaghe one hell of a fight. Kessler is on their level.
Also watch Toney in his prime then get back to me. Maybe you haven't seen his middleweight or SMW stuff in awhile.
Benn and Eubanks didn't want to come over to the states and still not get a 50/50 split. People conveniently priced themselves out of a fights with Roy JOnes Jr.
Also to ICB, I am not sure if Roy could stop Eubanks or not, but I would be pretty sure he could hurt Eubanks, He's hurt guys with the best chins in the business like Merqui Sosa, Malinga, Castro, even James Toney he hurt to the body at one point, Reggie Johnson, Virgill Hill(a big cruiserweight now)".
Kessler didnt spar or hit the bags prior to the Calzaghe fight??
I think you will find he did plenty of sparring and i know for a fact and there is footage knocking about of him sparring Peter Haymar and Brian Mcgee leading upto the fight.
Re: nigel benn on roy jones
Quote:
Originally Posted by
skel1983
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taeth
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hattonthehammer
you may have an argument for mccullum but i really dont see what the fascination was with toney.
Benn/Eubank were primarily seen by the american tv companys promoting jones as too big a risk for too little to gain hence the reason they never got to make their make stateside.
Had they of been in their prime nowadays ive no doubts in my mind both would currently be able to walk through the likes of kessler, froch, bute
Kessler, no way, he is so underrated on here. Without being able to spar or hit the bags, Kessler still gave Calzaghe one hell of a fight. Kessler is on their level.
Also watch Toney in his prime then get back to me. Maybe you haven't seen his middleweight or SMW stuff in awhile.
Benn and Eubanks didn't want to come over to the states and still not get a 50/50 split. People conveniently priced themselves out of a fights with Roy JOnes Jr.
Also to ICB, I am not sure if Roy could stop Eubanks or not, but I would be pretty sure he could hurt Eubanks, He's hurt guys with the best chins in the business like Merqui Sosa, Malinga, Castro, even James Toney he hurt to the body at one point, Reggie Johnson, Virgill Hill(a big cruiserweight now)".
Kessler didnt spar or hit the bags prior to the Calzaghe fight??
I think you will find he did plenty of sparring and i know for a fact and there is footage knocking about of him sparring Peter Haymar and Brian Mcgee leading upto the fight.
Also You must be on some good drugs if you think Eubank and Benn wanted 50/50 to fight RJJ in the States :rolleyes:.
The reason the fights never happened is because the guy is more or less impossible to negotiate with its no coincidence RJJ resume is questioned time and time again, the Eubanks and the Benns of the world wanted a fair deal not some stupid 85/15 split similar to the one Clinton Woods and so many other RJJ opponents recieved.
Re: nigel benn on roy jones
there was so many fights RJJ could of had but chose postmen instead
Re: nigel benn on roy jones
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Both Nigel Benn, Chris Eubank, although i did used to love watching em, would of got taught a lesson by Roy Jones Jr. Nigel Benn in his prime was struggling with the likes of Henry Wharton, Thulani Malinga.
And Chris Eubank was struggling with the likes of Tony Thorton, Ray Close, Dan Schommer. Fighters that Roy Jones Jr would toy with and he did toy with two of em Thulani Malinga, Tony Thorton.
Nigel Benn has a chance of a one punch KO but remember Roy Jones Jr, could hit very hard at Super Middleweight. And Nigel Benn's chin wasn't exactly granite either and he did leave his chin exposed. Nigel Benn would of been destroyed within 6 rounds.
Chris Eubank would of survived the distance but he would of made it, a negative awkward fight for Roy Jones Jr. And it would have been a snoozefest 12 round decision for Roy Jones Jr, i can't see Roy Jones Jr stopping Chris Eubank after i see Chris Eubank move all the way up to Cruiserweight.
And take bombs off a big punching Cruiserweight like Carl Thompson, and those punches didn't even wobble Chris Eubank once. The man had a legendary chin/will but he would be no match for Roy Jones Jr. And i think he even admitted that once.
Compared to his previous do or die all bombs approach.....I actually think Benn was doing some different things at that point in with Wharton,the Eubank rematch etc leading into the McClellan fight.I saw him showing some maturity and actual boxing...setting traps and alot of head,defensive movement and punching more straight in with Wharton.He was clipped off the top of the head in 5th by Wharton but dont think he was
struggling at all really.
Thing with Roy is that he would always try,and more often than not succeed,at setting the table very early and letting guys know "this is my ring,your just visiting" with sharp shots early on in the 1st,2nd round and alot of his opponents up to that point were lost after that.But he also could leave himself in dodgy spots with his follow ups,he was amazing in handspeed but not a technically sound in defense,uppercuts from the floor,wide hooks and rushing in
himself.Reflex-instinct-athleticism were his keys.Around 95' point and 160-165 had ever faced a two fisted,end you with one shot possibility ever pressing threat up to that period,no not Toney,A Castro,Sosa,Brannon, etc.On paper and with hindsight being 20/20..now...He may have clipped Benn early for mass effect.But he would not go unscathed himself,Benn would not be in "awe" of moment or Jones aura or intimidated and just fall over when forced.In the minority,but then and now,I think it would have benn a toss up.Would have loved this fight,shame it never came off.
Nigel Benn did mature alot as a fighter after his losses to Watson, Eubank, you are right about that. But he did still have alot of trouble against Henry Wharton, he was knocked down legitmately and he faded down the stretch. And i thought he only just about won by about 2 rounds, and thats because Henry Wharton got off to a very bad start losing the first 4 rounds.
He also did have alot of trouble against Thulani Malinga, and some people felt he was lucky to get the decision. Nigel Benn for all his improvements which was mostly his head movement and his more controlled boxing. Still left his chin in the air and although we all know Roy Jones Jr never had the best chin in the world, neither did Nigel Benn and even though Nigel Benn hits harder than Roy Jones Jr.
Roy Jones Jr could still hit pretty damn hard at Super Middleweight, Roy Jones Jr may of not been technically sound i've always said that, but at his best he was very hard to hit clean with a power shot. I mean you know how good someone is. When in his prime you can count on one hand the amount of times he was hit with a really solid shot.
One last thing you are right Roy Jones Jr never really met a fighter, with a 2 fisted attack who could bomb you out with one punch. But Merqui Sosa was no slouch in the power department, and he tried to swarm Roy Jones Jr and was just ripped apart with counter shots, he was also very durable yet he felt Roy Jones Jr's power in the first round.
I really can't see Nigel Benn lasting that long with his shaky chin, and with Roy Jones Jr's speedy counters and athletism i think i would put my money on Roy Jones Jr getting too Nigel Benn first.
Re: nigel benn on roy jones
Quote:
Originally Posted by
skel1983
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taeth
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hattonthehammer
you may have an argument for mccullum but i really dont see what the fascination was with toney.
Benn/Eubank were primarily seen by the american tv companys promoting jones as too big a risk for too little to gain hence the reason they never got to make their make stateside.
Had they of been in their prime nowadays ive no doubts in my mind both would currently be able to walk through the likes of kessler, froch, bute
Kessler, no way, he is so underrated on here. Without being able to spar or hit the bags, Kessler still gave Calzaghe one hell of a fight. Kessler is on their level.
Also watch Toney in his prime then get back to me. Maybe you haven't seen his middleweight or SMW stuff in awhile.
Benn and Eubanks didn't want to come over to the states and still not get a 50/50 split. People conveniently priced themselves out of a fights with Roy JOnes Jr.
Also to ICB, I am not sure if Roy could stop Eubanks or not, but I would be pretty sure he could hurt Eubanks, He's hurt guys with the best chins in the business like Merqui Sosa, Malinga, Castro, even James Toney he hurt to the body at one point, Reggie Johnson, Virgill Hill(a big cruiserweight now)".
Kessler didnt spar or hit the bags prior to the Calzaghe fight??
I think you will find he did plenty of sparring and i know for a fact and there is footage knocking about of him sparring Peter Haymar and Brian Mcgee leading upto the fight.
He didn't spar for the last month because of hand injuries, nor could he seriously do bag work. I am going by what his camp said. I can't see him lying because he took the loss pretty well.
Re: nigel benn on roy jones
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taeth
Quote:
Originally Posted by
skel1983
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taeth
Kessler, no way, he is so underrated on here. Without being able to spar or hit the bags, Kessler still gave Calzaghe one hell of a fight. Kessler is on their level.
Also watch Toney in his prime then get back to me. Maybe you haven't seen his middleweight or SMW stuff in awhile.
Benn and Eubanks didn't want to come over to the states and still not get a 50/50 split. People conveniently priced themselves out of a fights with Roy JOnes Jr.
Also to ICB, I am not sure if Roy could stop Eubanks or not, but I would be pretty sure he could hurt Eubanks, He's hurt guys with the best chins in the business like Merqui Sosa, Malinga, Castro, even James Toney he hurt to the body at one point, Reggie Johnson, Virgill Hill(a big cruiserweight now)".
Kessler didnt spar or hit the bags prior to the Calzaghe fight??
I think you will find he did plenty of sparring and i know for a fact and there is footage knocking about of him sparring Peter Haymar and Brian Mcgee leading upto the fight.
He didn't spar for the last month because of hand injuries, nor could he seriously do bag work. I am going by what his camp said. I can't see him lying because he took the loss pretty well.
Well considering there is footage on the internet off him sparring Peter Haymor and Brian Mcgee i think you will find it was a crock of shit, Kessler was injured within the last 10 days off camp, when most camps are finishing sparring.
Re: nigel benn on roy jones
everyone sure does have super hindsight when talking about roy vs benn..when back then, roy jones super motivated, undefeated, and prime, stops a wide open benn inside of six rounds..but since roy got knocked out some seven to eight years after the fact,
i guess it would make sense that he would have been kayoed then too:rolleyes:
Re: nigel benn on roy jones
This was an era when some of the big fights never got made - glad those days are gone ;)
Nigel Benn was the first fighter I ever truly got behind and I would be on edge and nervous for him from the opening bell. He was a class act and a true warrior but you knew one punch could change it. Will never forget Galvano tagging him with about 6 seconds to go in their rematch , thank gid it was that late !
I did love and get nervous for Frank Bruno too - but only for his life cos I knew he was crap, Benn was in a different league as a fighter.
RJJ v Benn would have been very very interesting. Jones would have been favourite but Nigel would have had a very good chance and I don't think RJJ wanted any part of him. I would favour Jones 60-40 but would not have been surprised if Benn had stopped him in the later rounds.
Re: nigel benn on roy jones
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JonesJrMayweather
everyone sure does have super hindsight when talking about roy vs benn..when back then, roy jones super motivated, undefeated, and prime, stops a wide open benn inside of six rounds..but since roy got knocked out some seven to eight years after the fact,
i guess it would make sense that he would have been kayoed then too:rolleyes:
Nah,what happened years later has little too do with the 'what ifs' and possibilitys at that time in each guys career.Up to that point in Jones career in 95',I was pretty much saying the exact same thing as today concerning a Benn fight while watching Jones fight flimsy alphabet ranked showcase fights and after Toney victory & listening to Larry Merchant call his KO of Byrd "the most exciting 1st round KO in boxing since Mike Tyson over Michael Spinks"....:cwm13:
That fight was there to be had.And saying and assuming a crushing victory over Benn is in no way as impressive as Jones actually doing it in the ring.Benn wanted it....Jones did not.
Re: nigel benn on roy jones
steve collins wanted it as well
eubank i am not so sure (but sure he wouldnt of turned the money down)
Re: nigel benn on roy jones
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JonesJrMayweather
everyone sure does have super hindsight when talking about roy vs benn..when back then, roy jones super motivated, undefeated, and prime, stops a wide open benn inside of six rounds..but since roy got knocked out some seven to eight years after the fact,
i guess it would make sense that he would have been kayoed then too:rolleyes:
Nah,what happened years later has little too do with the 'what ifs' and possibilitys at that time in each guys career.Up to that point in Jones career in 95',I was pretty much saying the exact same thing as today concerning a Benn fight while watching Jones fight flimsy alphabet ranked showcase fights and after Toney victory & listening to Larry Merchant call his KO of Byrd "the most exciting 1st round KO in boxing since Mike Tyson over Michael Spinks"....:cwm13:
That fight was there to be had.And saying and assuming a crushing victory over Benn is in no way as impressive as Jones actually doing it in the ring.Benn wanted it....Jones did not.
none of them really wanted it...benn eubank, collins, DM, JC, none of them really wanted to face 90s jones....and if benn had fought jones after fighting G-MAN he would have been in the same state has G-MAN.
Re: nigel benn on roy jones
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JonesJrMayweather
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JonesJrMayweather
everyone sure does have super hindsight when talking about roy vs benn..when back then, roy jones super motivated, undefeated, and prime, stops a wide open benn inside of six rounds..but since roy got knocked out some seven to eight years after the fact,
i guess it would make sense that he would have been kayoed then too:rolleyes:
Nah,what happened years later has little too do with the 'what ifs' and possibilitys at that time in each guys career.Up to that point in Jones career in 95',I was pretty much saying the exact same thing as today concerning a Benn fight while watching Jones fight flimsy alphabet ranked showcase fights and after Toney victory & listening to Larry Merchant call his KO of Byrd "the most exciting 1st round KO in boxing since Mike Tyson over Michael Spinks"....:cwm13:
That fight was there to be had.And saying and assuming a crushing victory over Benn is in no way as impressive as Jones actually doing it in the ring.Benn wanted it....Jones did not.
none of them really wanted it...benn eubank, collins, DM, JC, none of them really wanted to face 90s jones....and if benn had fought jones after fighting G-MAN he would have been in the same state has G-MAN.
Says who you? Collins wanted it badly, i know Benn was ready to fight him but you couldnt negotiate with Jones Jnr, he was more or less impossible.
Re: nigel benn on roy jones
Quote:
Originally Posted by
skel1983
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JonesJrMayweather
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
Nah,what happened years later has little too do with the 'what ifs' and possibilitys at that time in each guys career.Up to that point in Jones career in 95',I was pretty much saying the exact same thing as today concerning a Benn fight while watching Jones fight flimsy alphabet ranked showcase fights and after Toney victory & listening to Larry Merchant call his KO of Byrd "the most exciting 1st round KO in boxing since Mike Tyson over Michael Spinks"....:cwm13:
That fight was there to be had.And saying and assuming a crushing victory over Benn is in no way as impressive as Jones actually doing it in the ring.Benn wanted it....Jones did not.
none of them really wanted it...benn eubank, collins, DM, JC, none of them really wanted to face 90s jones....and if benn had fought jones after fighting G-MAN he would have been in the same state has G-MAN.
Says who you?
Collins wanted it badly, i know Benn was ready to fight him but you couldnt negotiate with Jones Jnr, he was more or less impossible.
says who you? Their actions say it, it was very clear that jones wasn't leaving the states following the olympics, besides Jones was the recognized p4p best fighter throughout the mid/late 90's certainly the best from 160-174...they should have flown to the states to prove they "wanted it" and just like in this interview with benn, there's one where jones claims all them where offered seven figures and none of them took it.
Re: nigel benn on roy jones
By the time Collins wanted to fight Jones he was after a big pay day and was effectively avoiding fighting Galzaghe.
