Re: The Mayweather double standard.
What really kills me is that a couple of years from now people are still going to bitch that Mayweather "cherry picked" his opponents after he came back from retirement and beat the #2 p4p fighter in the world as a tune up to beat the #1 p4p fighter in the world. And yes, I am so confident that Mayweather is in a completely different league from both of them to make that statement beforehand. If PBF came out of retirement and signed to fight Kelly Pavlik and took him to a decision victory there would STILL be legions of people screaming that he ducked someone, as unbelievable as that is, but it's the truth. And I really actually do love that people hate him that much.
Re: The Mayweather double standard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mr. Cosell
What really kills me is that a couple of years from now people are still going to bitch that Mayweather "cherry picked" his opponents after he came back from retirement and beat the #2 p4p fighter in the world as a tune up to beat the #1 p4p fighter in the world. And yes, I am so confident that Mayweather is in a completely different league from both of them to make that statement beforehand. If PBF came out of retirement and signed to fight Kelly Pavlik and took him to a decision victory there would STILL be legions of people screaming that he ducked someone, as unbelievable as that is, but it's the truth. And I really actually do love that people hate him that much.
You know what we should do, is to hell with this pound for pound bull crap. What if p4p no2 at the moment was Vic Darchinyan. Would you want praise for PBF beating p4p no2 then??? No. p4p means absolute crap in my eyes and its becoming annoying reading about it everywhere. p4p against p4p this and p4p that. What a load of twoddle.
Actual boxing fans know the match-ups they want to see and can surely see through the fickle nature of the now, Pacman vs PBF talk. What happened to PBF vs Williams, or then PBF vs Mosely when he dispatched Margarito.
I wanna see PBF beat a world clas 147 fighter like Williams or Mosley or Cotto and would watch that 9 times out of ten when pacman is concerned. I wanna see Pacman fight Marquez again. Just like I wanna see Vic Darchinyan fight Nonito again. Lets call it "True Foes" fight time. I say we have less of this moving up the weights and avoisding what we all know are the real challenges because lets face it, in a nut shell, it aint no different than Amir Kahn waltzing his way into Welter to fight for a title against Kotelnik, which he will win i'm sure, and will then try and call himself world class in the Welterweight division. Boll***s. Lets have you back down at LW to rematch Prescott first sunshine, your "Foe".
Sorry, rant over....
For the record, i see Mayweather catching manny pac on the counter all day long no sweat. Marquez will be a tougher fight in my eyes.
Re: The Mayweather double standard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
themacmagician
Actual boxing fans know the match-ups they want to see and can surely see through the fickle nature of the now, Pacman vs PBF talk. What happened to PBF vs Williams, or then PBF vs Mosely when he dispatched Margarito.
I wanna see PBF beat a world clas 147 fighter like Williams or Mosley or Cotto and would watch that 9 times out of ten when pacman is concerned. I wanna see Pacman fight Marquez again. Just like I wanna see Vic Darchinyan fight Nonito again. Lets call it "True Foes" fight time. I say we have less of this moving up the weights and avoisding what we all know are the real challenges because lets face it, in a nut shell, it aint no different than Amir Kahn waltzing his way into Welter to fight for a title against Kotelnik, which he will win i'm sure, and will then try and call himself world class in the Welterweight division. Boll***s. Lets have you back down at LW to rematch Prescott first sunshine, your "Foe".
Sorry, rant over....
For the record, i see Mayweather catching manny pac on the counter all day long no sweat. Marquez will be a tougher fight in my eyes.
yeah but if Mosley was saying he was gonna fight the Pacquiao Hatton winner and Pacquiao won then no one on this forum would be complaining . They'd say that they picked against Pacquiao against Oscar and won't do it again and some will even stretch to probably say that Mosley could stop Pacquiao.
The fact is 4 pounds aren't gonna really make a difference in that fight if Pacquiao and Mayweather fought each other. Pacquiao has dismantled Oscar at 147 and knocked out Hatton at 140 so if him and Mayweather fought at 144 whats your problem?
To compare Vic Darchiniyan to that seems like a desperate stretch. Mayweather and Pacquiao are only 4 pounds apart not 25
as far as what happened to Mosley Mayweather and Williams vs Mayweather. And Mayweather vs Margarito those three are always thrown our along with Cotto and I will say it again like i've said it a million times
if Cotto was beat by Floyd they'd have said Cotto was inexperienced, as its the same excuse they used when Margarito won. And Paul Williams went up and down in weight and lets not forget he lost that title upon his first title defense and then after beating Quintana in a rematch he moved up in weight, don't blame Mayweather for that. As far as Shane goes he is playing the waiting game after beating Margarito and may have even called out the Pacquiao Hatton winner and i bet if he did no one would be complaining as much as if Floyd did.
Re: The Mayweather double standard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Majesty
Quote:
Originally Posted by
themacmagician
Actual boxing fans know the match-ups they want to see and can surely see through the fickle nature of the now, Pacman vs PBF talk. What happened to PBF vs Williams, or then PBF vs Mosely when he dispatched Margarito.
I wanna see PBF beat a world clas 147 fighter like Williams or Mosley or Cotto and would watch that 9 times out of ten when pacman is concerned. I wanna see Pacman fight Marquez again. Just like I wanna see Vic Darchinyan fight Nonito again. Lets call it "True Foes" fight time. I say we have less of this moving up the weights and avoisding what we all know are the real challenges because lets face it, in a nut shell, it aint no different than Amir Kahn waltzing his way into Welter to fight for a title against Kotelnik, which he will win i'm sure, and will then try and call himself world class in the Welterweight division. Boll***s. Lets have you back down at LW to rematch Prescott first sunshine, your "Foe".
Sorry, rant over....
For the record, i see Mayweather catching manny pac on the counter all day long no sweat. Marquez will be a tougher fight in my eyes.
yeah but if Mosley was saying he was gonna fight the Pacquiao Hatton winner and Pacquiao won then no one on this forum would be complaining . They'd say that they picked against Pacquiao against Oscar and won't do it again and some will even stretch to probably say that Mosley could stop Pacquiao.
The fact is 4 pounds aren't gonna really make a difference in that fight if Pacquiao and Mayweather fought each other. Pacquiao has dismantled Oscar at 147 and knocked out Hatton at 140 so if him and Mayweather fought at 144 whats your problem?
To compare Vic Darchiniyan to that seems like a desperate stretch. Mayweather and Pacquiao are only 4 pounds apart not 25
as far as what happened to Mosley Mayweather and Williams vs Mayweather. And Mayweather vs Margarito those three are always thrown our along with Cotto and I will say it again like i've said it a million times
if Cotto was beat by Floyd they'd have said Cotto was inexperienced, as its the same excuse they used when Margarito won. And Paul Williams went up and down in weight and lets not forget he lost that title upon his first title defense and then after beating Quintana in a rematch he moved up in weight, don't blame Mayweather for that. As far as Shane goes he is playing the waiting game after beating Margarito and may have even called out the Pacquiao Hatton winner and i bet if he did no one would be complaining as much as if Floyd did.
I'm pretty sure he's refferring to Marquez when he's talking about the weight issue with PBF. Magicmagician is right about this p4p bollocks, with Pac's win over Hatton he is a genuine opponent for PBF, but JMM done nothing over 135, and seemed to struggle a lttile w ith the strength of Diaz (not with his ability), so pretty certain moving up an extra nine pounds IS going to have a big effect.
When referring to having a shot at the lineal WELTERWEIGHT champ (PBF), who's really done more, the guy who beat Diaz at 135, or the guy who mauled Margarito at 147? I don't buy this being a small welterweight crap at all, if you can't make 140 then you ARE a welterweight PERIOD.
Lets remember that PBF signed up to figt JMM (and probably Pac was next intended) BEFORE Pac showed how destructive he was at 140.
Re: The Mayweather double standard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JT Rock
your out of your fing mind
Maybe I am...I'm not hating on his skill but has Floyd EVER fought the 100% aboslute best of any weight class he's been in? Zab Judah? Carlos Baldomir? Arturo Gatti?
Miguel Cotto not only has a big fan base, he's a very good fighter...I don't buy that whole "inexperienced" bs for a second. His loss vs Margarito was a legit loss, it's hindsight that makes everyone say LOADED GLOVES and maybe that is right, we'll see in the future what happens with him.
Maybe Floyd never ducked anyone, but he sure as hell never went out of his way to fight the collective best of each division he set foot in, only recently has he really stepped his game up. He never even tried to unify titles.
I'm sorry, but as a boxing fan I feel cheated from Floyd Mayweather. He hasn't given the fans what they want....perhaps a fight with JMM or Pac can remedy that.
Re: The Mayweather double standard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Majesty
Quote:
Originally Posted by
themacmagician
Actual boxing fans know the match-ups they want to see and can surely see through the fickle nature of the now, Pacman vs PBF talk. What happened to PBF vs Williams, or then PBF vs Mosely when he dispatched Margarito.
I wanna see PBF beat a world clas 147 fighter like Williams or Mosley or Cotto and would watch that 9 times out of ten when pacman is concerned. I wanna see Pacman fight Marquez again. Just like I wanna see Vic Darchinyan fight Nonito again. Lets call it "True Foes" fight time. I say we have less of this moving up the weights and avoisding what we all know are the real challenges because lets face it, in a nut shell, it aint no different than Amir Kahn waltzing his way into Welter to fight for a title against Kotelnik, which he will win i'm sure, and will then try and call himself world class in the Welterweight division. Boll***s. Lets have you back down at LW to rematch Prescott first sunshine, your "Foe".
Sorry, rant over....
For the record, i see Mayweather catching manny pac on the counter all day long no sweat. Marquez will be a tougher fight in my eyes.
yeah but if Mosley was saying he was gonna fight the Pacquiao Hatton winner and Pacquiao won then no one on this forum would be complaining . They'd say that they picked against Pacquiao against Oscar and won't do it again and some will even stretch to probably say that Mosley could stop Pacquiao.
The fact is 4 pounds aren't gonna really make a difference in that fight if Pacquiao and Mayweather fought each other. Pacquiao has dismantled Oscar at 147 and knocked out Hatton at 140 so if him and Mayweather fought at 144 whats your problem?
To compare Vic Darchiniyan to that seems like a desperate stretch. Mayweather and Pacquiao are only 4 pounds apart not 25
as far as what happened to Mosley Mayweather and Williams vs Mayweather. And Mayweather vs Margarito those three are always thrown our along with Cotto and I will say it again like i've said it a million times
if Cotto was beat by Floyd they'd have said Cotto was inexperienced, as its the same excuse they used when Margarito won. And Paul Williams went up and down in weight and lets not forget he lost that title upon his first title defense and then after beating Quintana in a rematch he moved up in weight, don't blame Mayweather for that. As far as Shane goes he is playing the waiting game after beating Margarito and may have even called out the Pacquiao Hatton winner and i bet if he did no one would be complaining as much as if Floyd did.
I don't agree with your comment pal unfortunately, I really am not convinced by someone who moves up in weight and doesn't fight a lineal or recognised best fighter. Mayweather needs to fight the top people at his designated weight division to class himself the best, just like pacman has, beating hatton at 140. I'm really not interested one bit in this p4p bullshit, i just wanna see the best fight the best and have done with it. best vs best at that weight division. If pacman beats mayweather then he can't possibly be considered the best at welterwight as mayweather hasn't fought a top welterweight. If Mayweather beats Cotto or Williams I will hold him in very very high regard, just like anyone with half a boxing brain should do. Just like pacman should now be held in high regard after demolishing Hatton.
To be honest its all very confusing, he beats him is he better than him or not rubbish. All the comparison over different weights is just crap. Think you missed my point on darchinyan.....
To be honest, and i'm perfectly sure i'm not on my own, i just wish that there was one belt up for grabs in each division, then all this rubbish about whos best and p4p and moving up weights would be easier to make a judgement on. This p4p is a load of mythical tripe and should be left at that.
Re: The Mayweather double standard.
Mayweather has created his own handicap with the double standard by proclaiming himself the best and even the greatest of all time. He doesn't do it the way Ali did and create an atmosphere when he's boasting, he just comes off like an ass.
When you tell everyone you're the greatest, then never have a great fight, not JUST because you're so good, but because you won't take a risk in the ring.
The problem is he's just like his dad, he makes these silly boasts and he doesn't have the personality to pull it off like Ali.
In contrast, I've never heard Pac proclaim himself as the greatest, nor did his trainer. If you let other people say it you don't get the hassle.
Jr. and Sr. need a publicist that is not related to them, that can explain to them how to get a decent public image.
Re: The Mayweather double standard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lyle
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JT Rock
your out of your fing mind
Maybe I am...I'm not hating on his skill but has Floyd EVER fought the 100% aboslute best of any weight class he's been in? Zab Judah? Carlos Baldomir? Arturo Gatti?
Miguel Cotto not only has a big fan base, he's a very good fighter...I don't buy that whole "inexperienced" bs for a second. His loss vs Margarito was a legit loss, it's hindsight that makes everyone say LOADED GLOVES and maybe that is right, we'll see in the future what happens with him.
Maybe Floyd never ducked anyone, but he sure as hell never went out of his way to fight the collective best of each division he set foot in, only recently has he really stepped his game up. He never even tried to unify titles.
I'm sorry, but as a boxing fan I feel cheated from Floyd Mayweather. He hasn't given the fans what they want....perhaps a fight with JMM or Pac can remedy that.
I am tired of argueing the rest of this, but Cotto was definitely a very good fighter, but he still didn't prove himself at the top level until he faced Mosley. Judah doesn't count, and he didn't look super great againt Judah who had him bleeding, hurt a few times. Cotto didn't look like a true challenge for Mayweather until after his fight with Mosley.
Re: The Mayweather double standard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
luvfightgame
Mayweather has created his own handicap with the double standard by proclaiming himself the best and even the greatest of all time. He doesn't do it the way Ali did and create an atmosphere when he's boasting, he just comes off like an ass.
When you tell everyone you're the greatest, then never have a great fight, not JUST because you're so good, but because you won't take a risk in the ring.
The problem is he's just like his dad, he makes these silly boasts and he doesn't have the personality to pull it off like Ali.
In contrast, I've never heard Pac proclaim himself as the greatest, nor did his trainer. If you let other people say it you don't get the hassle.
Jr. and Sr. need a publicist that is not related to them, that can explain to them how to get a decent public image.
Ali didn't come of as an ass? Did you watch any of his interviews? I am sorry to say but Ali would be kicked out of boxing for half the crap he said back in the day. I love him, but he was a prick.
Re: The Mayweather double standard.
While true Taeth, Ali was an ass, but can you name me 1 fighter he ducked/avoided/didn't want to fight?
Ali didn't HAVE to fight Joe Frazier a third time since #1 Ali beat Joe and avenged his loss #2 Joe got DEMOLISHED by Foremand and #3 Ali beat Foreman but Ali took the fight and it ended up being one of the greatest fights ever.
Floyd Mayweather's career can be summed up in 3 words "Proceed With Caution" people bitch about Wladimir being too cautious a fighter...well what the fuck is Floyd?!?!?! Wlad hasn't ducked anyone? Wlad HAS gone out of his way to try and fight the best out there. All I can say is guys like Jermain Taylor (Hopkins x 2, Winky Wright, Kelly Pavlik x 2) make Floyd look like a pussy....hell Floyd's fight vs Oscar (which was only a MAJORITY DECISION) is tantamount to Joe Calzaghe beating Roy Jones Jr....at least Pacquiao stopped Oscar and Pac just friggin flattened Hatton.
As a fan, knowing that Floyd is HANDS DOWN the most skilled fighter in the whole world...I feel ripped off that he hasn't taken risks with his career. Every so often you get a fight like the Diego Corrales fight or Jose Luis Castillo, but more often you get Sharmba Mitchell, Zab Judah and Carlos Baldomir.
And Taeth you can argue all you want AGAINST Miguel Cotto getting a shot vs Floyd but allow me to bring up 2 names on Floyd's record HENRY BRUSELES and VICTORIANO SOSA. Bruseles had 24 total fights when he got a shot vs PBF, at that time Cotto only had 4 less fights than Bruseles only he hadn't lost. As for Sosa, Floyd took him 12, Cotto took him 4. Before the Mosley fight Mayweather didn't want to fight Cotto, after the Mosley fight he didn't want to fight Cotto and that fight basically was for the right to fight Floyd Mayweather only Floyd didn't want to fight either guy BOTH OF WHOM I might add would give him a very tough fight.
Re: The Mayweather double standard.
Ali fought a washed up Frazier the third time, or so he thought, and IMO if he hadn't neglected to train Ali would have beaten Frazier handily, but he didn't train hard for that fight, and thats why it was so brutal.
Floyd fought Corrales when that was a 50/50 fight. He had a rematch with Castillo who a lot of people felt won their first fight, when he could have just moved on. People thought he was crazy to move up to welterweight and face Zab Judah, but he did, then he won the linear belt that I still have a ring magazine that felt Baldomir would win because he was considered the best welterweight in the world at the time. Many people thought Oscar was too big and too bad at 154 for Floyd to stand a chance, but he outboxed him and even stood toe to toe for a lot of it. THen Floyd IMO cleaned up Ricky Hatton the person he neglected to fight at 140.
Now he is coming back after almost 2 years and facing the 2nd best fighter on the planet, who may have not done anything above 135 yet, but is the guy who gave the p4p #1 current king two contraversially close fights, and arguably won more rounds than Manny did in either fight. When Marquez faced Manny, Manny was 3 pounds less than when he faced Hatton or De La Hoya, so obviously Marquez dealt with similar power to what Hatton and Oscar dealt with better than they did. He also dealt with the speed better and Manny's underrated boxing skills.
Also Lyle, nobody wanted Cotto in the ring with Mayweather when Mayweather fought Brusseles, and certainly not when he faced Sosa. IMO Arum and COtto wanted Brusseles to fight MAyweather because he was a sparring partner for Cotto with a similar style, and Mayweather destroyed him, I believe that backed off Cotto's people for a few years.
ALso about Sosa, I don't think anyone is denying Cotto is the way bigger puncher, Mayweather was the smaller man against Sosa, while Cotto probably had a 10-15 pound size advantage over Sosa. Cotto is a good fighter, but his people didn't want him legitimately in with Mayweather until the MOsley fight.
Re: The Mayweather double standard.
Why do people keep saying that Floyd has never won a Lineal Championship?
Lineal Championships don't really mean shit anyway... If a Lineal Champ gets upset/fights on for too long/retires etc then lineal championship can end up going anywhere...
Carlos Baldomir/Zab Judah etc... :rolleyes:
Re: The Mayweather double standard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taeth
Quote:
Originally Posted by
luvfightgame
Mayweather has created his own handicap with the double standard by proclaiming himself the best and even the greatest of all time. He doesn't do it the way Ali did and create an atmosphere when he's boasting, he just comes off like an ass.
When you tell everyone you're the greatest, then never have a great fight, not JUST because you're so good, but because you won't take a risk in the ring.
The problem is he's just like his dad, he makes these silly boasts and he doesn't have the personality to pull it off like Ali.
In contrast, I've never heard Pac proclaim himself as the greatest, nor did his trainer. If you let other people say it you don't get the hassle.
Jr. and Sr. need a publicist that is not related to them, that can explain to them how to get a decent public image.
Ali didn't come of as an ass? Did you watch any of his interviews? I am sorry to say but Ali would be kicked out of boxing for half the crap he said back in the day. I love him, but he was a prick.
I've seen a handful of his interviews and he has the reporters smiling and laughing and there's a generally funny mood.
Mayweather's (all of them) are very serious mostly and the general mood is WTF!?!?
If you can understand what they said, it usually doesn't make sense and people laugh at them, not what they said.
Huge difference with Ali and PBF or any of the other Mayweather's i've seen publicly. Watching Ali you come away thinking he's very intelligent and witty.
Watching mayweather's you come away that they are pompous crackheads. Jr is obviously not as bad as the others, but he doesn't make much sense when he talks either. He should stick with being a Pretty Boy and not a bad boy cause he comes off poorly.
Roger and SR...... seriously, they remind me of some homeless folks i've met.:-\
Re: The Mayweather double standard.
One thing you're forgetting Taeth is that Floyd signed to fight Marquez BEFORE Pac destroyed Hatton, and considering it was UNIVERSALLY recognised that ODLH was fucked during THAT fight it is pretty obvious that Floyd lined up for his comeback a 35 featherweight who struggled with the size at lightweight, followed by Pac who (I feel I must stress again) at the time (prior Hatton) was believed that his power hadn't carried considering he landed 150 + FLUSH power punches before flooring the C class Diaz and the same again WITHOUT flooring ODLH.
Now, I like Floyd's style, and he does have an impressive resume (prob ATG), but it has to be said that he he really is avoiding HIS main threats. Granted Marquez is a p4per, but he isn't as much a threat to Floyd as Williams/Cotto/Mosley hell even Clottey, and did beating Diaz in a competitive fight really make as much of a statement as DESTROYING the man considered a beast at 147?
IF Pac goes through Cotto (who has to go through Clottey), and then Floyd deals with Pac, he will have done more than enough to silence me(I admit though that some stubborn people will never be silenced), but I ain't holding my breath.
Re: The Mayweather double standard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taeth
Ali fought a washed up Frazier the third time, or so he thought, and IMO if he hadn't neglected to train Ali would have beaten Frazier handily, but he didn't train hard for that fight, and thats why it was so brutal.
Floyd fought Corrales when that was a 50/50 fight. He had a rematch with Castillo who a lot of people felt won their first fight, when he could have just moved on. People thought he was crazy to move up to welterweight and face Zab Judah, but he did, then he won the linear belt that I still have a ring magazine that felt Baldomir would win because he was considered the best welterweight in the world at the time. Many people thought Oscar was too big and too bad at 154 for Floyd to stand a chance, but he outboxed him and even stood toe to toe for a lot of it. THen Floyd IMO cleaned up Ricky Hatton the person he neglected to fight at 140.
Now he is coming back after almost 2 years and facing the 2nd best fighter on the planet, who may have not done anything above 135 yet, but is the guy who gave the p4p #1 current king two contraversially close fights, and arguably won more rounds than Manny did in either fight. When Marquez faced Manny, Manny was 3 pounds less than when he faced Hatton or De La Hoya, so obviously Marquez dealt with similar power to what Hatton and Oscar dealt with better than they did. He also dealt with the speed better and Manny's underrated boxing skills.
Also Lyle, nobody wanted Cotto in the ring with Mayweather when Mayweather fought Brusseles, and certainly not when he faced Sosa. IMO Arum and COtto wanted Brusseles to fight MAyweather because he was a sparring partner for Cotto with a similar style, and Mayweather destroyed him, I believe that backed off Cotto's people for a few years.
ALso about Sosa, I don't think anyone is denying Cotto is the way bigger puncher, Mayweather was the smaller man against Sosa, while Cotto probably had a 10-15 pound size advantage over Sosa. Cotto is a good fighter, but his people didn't want him legitimately in with Mayweather until the MOsley fight.
Mayweather fought Sosa at 135, Cotto fought him at 140, you say that 4 lbs is no big deal for a fight against Marquez or Pacquiao so don't try to make it a double standard for PBF, Cotto has badly beaten plenty of the fighters that Mayweather won oh too catious decisions over
