Catch Weight - Title fight?

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by AdamGB

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Originally Posted by fan johnny

If the bout is made, they will step into the ring above the 147 welter limit and not at the catch weight limit. So I'd say you're making a bit too much out of the catch weight as far as insisting Pacquiao fight 147 pounders because isn't what you are effectively saying is that he step into the ring against a bigger fighter to get credit for the win. Welter is 140-147. I read Mosley stepped into the ring against Margarito at 160. (verify) Mosley would surely step into the ring above 154 and Pacquiao below 150. I'd say Roach contractually protecting his fighter is absolutely the right thing to do professionally and the right thing to do morally.

The fair thing for weight classes would be for fighters to step into the ring under the limit, but because of the way fighters try to gain an advantage, the rules are such as they are for safety. The topic is not so pertinent amongst fighters that meet mid range of the weight class but when fighters meet coming from the extremes of the weight class it gets really hot.

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Fighters always step into the ring heavier on fight night than the do on the day of the weigh in, this isn't news and it's besides the point.

Do you have any idea how much it takes out of having to force yourself down to a weight for a weigh in? It takes a lot out of you... the further you go from your natural weight the harder it's going to be to rehydrate and refuel afterwards and the weaker you are going to be.

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

:vd: It's obvious you never Boxed before. You have no idea the condition Oscar was in. He couldn't defend himself. He was dead. Nobody knew how bad it was except Roach. Roach said it himself the fight would of never happened if Oscar was still a threat. So in reality Pac beat a man who was incapable of fighting back. Wow. How much longer you going to suck his dikk for it?



Haye: I want to fight for your title Wlad. But i don't feel comfortable with you being so heavy. You think you can do me a favor and come in at like 215 or 220?

How stupid is that? Do yourself a favor and admit it was an idiotic example and save what little dignity you have left

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That's exactly my point you moron. Thank you. It's exactly what the Pac camp is trying to do because they have the $$$ to get away with it and it stinks.

Apparently we can also add reading comprehension to the list of things too perplexing for VD, along with numeracy.

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The option doesn't exist at Heavyweight..

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:vd: :vd: :vd:

As I have explained twice already there are 43 'options' to chose from for a Hypothetical catchweight that fall within the difference between Haye's 200 and Wlad's 245.
Pick one. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by fan johnny

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Originally Posted by AdamGB

Fighters always step into the ring heavier on fight night than the do on the day of the weigh in, this isn't news and it's besides the point.

Do you have any idea how much it takes out of having to force yourself down to a weight for a weigh in? It takes a lot out of you... the further you go from your natural weight the harder it's going to be to rehydrate and refuel afterwards and the weaker you are going to be.

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Let me get your opinion into focus, You're stating that Mosley having to shed 2-3 pounds more for Pacquiao than when he fought Margarito is going to weight drain Mosley? ah.. ok then, I get it. I think it a stretch but I get it....

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Please don't try and put anything into focus for me unless you've studied as much Anatomy and Physiology as I have... you may be punching a bit above your weight. :) ;)

It's not at all stretch, he walks around at 160+ pounds... the lower you get the more each pound counts. After a certain point every ounce you lose is fluid/glycogen stored in the blood and muscles that the body needs to have a certain level of to function correctly.

It can take a person who hasn't been drinking enough water in their diet SIX WEEKS to become properly hydrated... these guys have 24 hours to rehydrate and they haven't just became partially dehydrated from poor water intake... they have forced it all out.

ODLH struggled so much he had to rehydrate by injecting himself with an IV line and having fluids fed into his veins. Sound fun? ;)

I don't think you understand how hard it can be to loose the last couple of pounds if it's too low for you, it's completely unatural.

You can't just keep on saying 'It's only a few more pounds' there has to be a cut off point and Roach is making out it's only a few pounds when really he's hoping that a few more pounds.

The majority of fighters are already fighting as low as they can healthy get to in an effort to be naturally stronger than everybody else at the weight so it REALLY doesn't take much for it to be a few pounds too far.

Why do you think that from Strawweight to Featherweight only 4... sometimes even only 3 pounds divide each weight class?

Or let me put it like this: If they are going to be heavier on fight night anyway what motive does Roach have for asking him to weigh in at 144? If it wasn't going to affect Mosely then they wouldn't bother to ask.

With the right people Mosely may be able to rehydrate properly... the lower he goes the harder it is and ODLH was also meant to have the right people around him... look how that turned out.

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Originally Posted by AdamGB

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by AdamGB

Fighters always step into the ring heavier on fight night than the do on the day of the weigh in, this isn't news and it's besides the point.

Do you have any idea how much it takes out of having to force yourself down to a weight for a weigh in? It takes a lot out of you... the further you go from your natural weight the harder it's going to be to rehydrate and refuel afterwards and the weaker you are going to be.



That's exactly my point you moron. Thank you. It's exactly what the Pac camp is trying to do because they have the $$$ to get away with it and it stinks.

Apparently we can also add reading comprehension to the list of things too perplexing for VD, along with numeracy.

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The option doesn't exist at Heavyweight..

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:vd: :vd: :vd:

As I have explained twice already there are 43 'options' to chose from for a Hypothetical catchweight that fall within the difference between Haye's 200 and Wlad's 245.
Pick one. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by fan johnny

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Originally Posted by AdamGB

Fighters always step into the ring heavier on fight night than the do on the day of the weigh in, this isn't news and it's besides the point.

Do you have any idea how much it takes out of having to force yourself down to a weight for a weigh in? It takes a lot out of you... the further you go from your natural weight the harder it's going to be to rehydrate and refuel afterwards and the weaker you are going to be.

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Let me get your opinion into focus, You're stating that Mosley having to shed 2-3 pounds more for Pacquiao than when he fought Margarito is going to weight drain Mosley? ah.. ok then, I get it. I think it a stretch but I get it....

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Please don't try and put anything into focus for me unless you've studied as much Anatomy and Physiology as I have... you may be punching a bit above your weight. :) ;)

It's not at all stretch, he walks around at 160+ pounds... the lower you get the more each pound counts. After a certain point every ounce you lose is fluid/glycogen stored in the blood and muscles that the body needs to have a certain level of to function correctly.

It can take a person who hasn't been drinking enough water in their diet SIX WEEKS to become properly hydrated... these guys have 24 hours to rehydrate and they haven't just became partially dehydrated from poor water intake... they have forced it all out.

ODLH struggled so much he had to rehydrate by injecting himself with an IV line and having fluids fed into his veins. Sound fun? ;)

I don't think you understand how hard it can be to loose the last couple of pounds if it's too low for you, it's completely unatural.

You can't just keep on saying 'It's only a few more pounds' there has to be a cut off point and Roach is making out it's only a few pounds when really he's hoping that a few more pounds.

The majority of fighters are already fighting as low as they can healthy get to in an effort to be naturally stronger than everybody else at the weight so it REALLY doesn't take much for it to be a few pounds too far.

Why do you think that from Strawweight to Featherweight only 4... sometimes even only 3 pounds divide each weight class?

Or let me put it like this: If they are going to be heavier on fight night anyway what motive does Roach have for asking him to weigh in at 144? If it wasn't going to affect Mosely then they wouldn't bother to ask.

With the right people Mosely may be able to rehydrate properly... the lower he goes the harder it is and ODLH was also meant to have the right people around him... look how that turned out.

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The subject is Mosley vs Pacquiao, not Pacquiao vs ODLH. The subject is a welterweight fight with a catchweight limit. The subject is not who has more Anatomy and Physiology knowledge for that you can start another thread.

147-145=2, 147-144=3. that's a few pounds. It's called math. Is Mosley a welterweight or not? If he is a "Middleweight" you have a valid argument and Mosley shouldn't be fighting at welter should he.

The catch weight will most likely be made at 144/145. Welter is 140 to 147. You wrote this how many times? You don't want to focus the subject because you want to mislead the point, just own up to it you want an excuse if Pacquiao beats Mosley!

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Originally Posted by fan johnny

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Originally Posted by AdamGB

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

The option doesn't exist at Heavyweight..

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:vd: :vd: :vd:

As I have explained twice already there are 43 'options' to chose from for a Hypothetical catchweight that fall within the difference between Haye's 200 and Wlad's 245.
Pick one. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by fan johnny

Let me get your opinion into focus, You're stating that Mosley having to shed 2-3 pounds more for Pacquiao than when he fought Margarito is going to weight drain Mosley? ah.. ok then, I get it. I think it a stretch but I get it....

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Please don't try and put anything into focus for me unless you've studied as much Anatomy and Physiology as I have... you may be punching a bit above your weight. :) ;)

It's not at all stretch, he walks around at 160+ pounds... the lower you get the more each pound counts. After a certain point every ounce you lose is fluid/glycogen stored in the blood and muscles that the body needs to have a certain level of to function correctly.

It can take a person who hasn't been drinking enough water in their diet SIX WEEKS to become properly hydrated... these guys have 24 hours to rehydrate and they haven't just became partially dehydrated from poor water intake... they have forced it all out.

ODLH struggled so much he had to rehydrate by injecting himself with an IV line and having fluids fed into his veins. Sound fun? ;)

I don't think you understand how hard it can be to loose the last couple of pounds if it's too low for you, it's completely unatural.

You can't just keep on saying 'It's only a few more pounds' there has to be a cut off point and Roach is making out it's only a few pounds when really he's hoping that a few more pounds.

The majority of fighters are already fighting as low as they can healthy get to in an effort to be naturally stronger than everybody else at the weight so it REALLY doesn't take much for it to be a few pounds too far.

Why do you think that from Strawweight to Featherweight only 4... sometimes even only 3 pounds divide each weight class?

Or let me put it like this: If they are going to be heavier on fight night anyway what motive does Roach have for asking him to weigh in at 144? If it wasn't going to affect Mosely then they wouldn't bother to ask.

With the right people Mosely may be able to rehydrate properly... the lower he goes the harder it is and ODLH was also meant to have the right people around him... look how that turned out.

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The subject is Mosley vs Pacquiao, not Pacquiao vs ODLH. The subject is a welterweight fight with a catchweight limit. The subject is not who has more Anatomy and Physiology knowledge for that you can start another thread.

147-145=2, 147-144=3. that's a few pounds. It's called math. Is Mosley a welterweight or not? If he is a "Middleweight" you have a valid argument and Mosley shouldn't be fighting at welter should he.

The catch weight will most likely be made at 144/145. Welter is 140 to 147. You wrote this how many times? You don't want to focus the subject because you want to mislead the point, just own up to it you want an excuse if Pacquiao beats Mosley!

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You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. A few pounds can make a huge difference, especially in a fighter like Mosley who is both very old in boxing terms relative to his competition and who has been competiting at 147 or above since 1999.

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Originally Posted by CFH

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. A few pounds can make a huge difference, especially in a fighter like Mosley who is both very old in boxing terms relative to his competition and who has been competiting at 147 or above since 1999.

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I know exactly what I'm talking about, perhaps you are just having problems reading.

From your statement, I see that you also think Mosley shouldn't be fighting at Welterweight either.

You can be of the opinion that Mosley can't make the catchweigh and not weight drained. but I think it's a stretch. Mosley met Cotto at 146.25, Mosley will be fine at 144/145 catchweigh.

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Originally Posted by fan johnny

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Originally Posted by CFH

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. A few pounds can make a huge difference, especially in a fighter like Mosley who is both very old in boxing terms relative to his competition and who has been competiting at 147 or above since 1999.

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I know exactly what I'm talking about, perhaps you are just having problems reading.

From your statement, I see that you also think Mosley shouldn't be fighting at Welterweight either.

You can be of the opinion that Mosley can't make the catchweigh and not weight drained. but I think it's a stretch. Mosley met Cotto at 146.25, Mosley will be fine at 144/145 catchweigh.

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Where did I say that? Mosley has proven that he is fine at 147.

To address your other points, Adam already explained how even a few pounds can make a big difference for a fighter. If you can't understand (or admit) that then there is no reason to continue this discussion with you.

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Originally Posted by fan johnny

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Originally Posted by AdamGB

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

The option doesn't exist at Heavyweight..

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:vd: :vd: :vd:

As I have explained twice already there are 43 'options' to chose from for a Hypothetical catchweight that fall within the difference between Haye's 200 and Wlad's 245.
Pick one. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by fan johnny

Let me get your opinion into focus, You're stating that Mosley having to shed 2-3 pounds more for Pacquiao than when he fought Margarito is going to weight drain Mosley? ah.. ok then, I get it. I think it a stretch but I get it....

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Please don't try and put anything into focus for me unless you've studied as much Anatomy and Physiology as I have... you may be punching a bit above your weight. :) ;)

It's not at all stretch, he walks around at 160+ pounds... the lower you get the more each pound counts. After a certain point every ounce you lose is fluid/glycogen stored in the blood and muscles that the body needs to have a certain level of to function correctly.

It can take a person who hasn't been drinking enough water in their diet SIX WEEKS to become properly hydrated... these guys have 24 hours to rehydrate and they haven't just became partially dehydrated from poor water intake... they have forced it all out.

ODLH struggled so much he had to rehydrate by injecting himself with an IV line and having fluids fed into his veins. Sound fun? ;)

I don't think you understand how hard it can be to loose the last couple of pounds if it's too low for you, it's completely unatural.

You can't just keep on saying 'It's only a few more pounds' there has to be a cut off point and Roach is making out it's only a few pounds when really he's hoping that a few more pounds.

The majority of fighters are already fighting as low as they can healthy get to in an effort to be naturally stronger than everybody else at the weight so it REALLY doesn't take much for it to be a few pounds too far.

Why do you think that from Strawweight to Featherweight only 4... sometimes even only 3 pounds divide each weight class?

Or let me put it like this: If they are going to be heavier on fight night anyway what motive does Roach have for asking him to weigh in at 144? If it wasn't going to affect Mosely then they wouldn't bother to ask.

With the right people Mosely may be able to rehydrate properly... the lower he goes the harder it is and ODLH was also meant to have the right people around him... look how that turned out.

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The subject is Mosley vs Pacquiao, not Pacquiao vs ODLH. I am using that as an example for you as to how a weight drained fighter will perform... it is entirely relevant The subject is a welterweight fight with a catchweight limit. The subject is not who has more Anatomy and Physiology knowledge for that you can start another thread. No but I am backing up my statements with solid knowledge/understanding of how the body works and I don't see why I should not demonstrate this or your lack of credibilaty to you.

147-145=2, 147-144=3. that's a few pounds. no shit It's called math. No it's called mathS... ;) Is Mosley a welterweight or not? At the moment he is fighting as one, yes If he is a "Middleweight" you have a valid argument and Mosley shouldn't be fighting at welter should he.

You clearly don't understand how a boxer drys up for a weigh in... Welter weights usually train down to something under 160 pounds then sweat the rest off JUST FOR THE SCALES... If he was a middle Weight he'd WALK AROUND closer to 175. When you're training down to an approximate weight in camp every pound doesn't count AS MUCH... but once you're boiling down for the weigh in EVERY pound counts.

The catch weight will most likely be made at 144/145. Welter is 140 to 147. You wrote this how many times? I know that 145 is WITHIN the division... what is your point exactly? You don't want to focus the subject because you want to mislead the point, just own up to it you want an excuse if Pacquiao beats Mosley! Why would I want an excuse? I am completely neutral... I like both fighters equally, if Pac is going to talk about getting a welterweight title then the opponent should be allowed to fight at any weight up to and including 147... why wouldn't I want to give him credit? as long as he does it properly...

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I've made my points in bold text above ^.

Seeing as you don't understand how weighing in a boiling down work or affect the body I'm going to simplify my point to you (as well as repeat a question you haven't answered yet...) :

if it's 'only' 2-3 pounds and they aren't going to affect Mosely then why would the Pac camp even bother asking for it? It makes them look bad for asking, so if Mosely will be as good at 144 pounds as he is at 147 then wouldn't they just save the embarrassment and not ask?

Again: they are asking for a catchweight because they know that Mosely will be better at 147 and worse at 144.

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Originally Posted by CFH

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Originally Posted by fan johnny

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Originally Posted by CFH

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. A few pounds can make a huge difference, especially in a fighter like Mosley who is both very old in boxing terms relative to his competition and who has been competiting at 147 or above since 1999.

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I know exactly what I'm talking about, perhaps you are just having problems reading.

From your statement, I see that you also think Mosley shouldn't be fighting at Welterweight either.

You can be of the opinion that Mosley can't make the catchweigh and not weight drained. but I think it's a stretch. Mosley met Cotto at 146.25, Mosley will be fine at 144/145 catchweigh.

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Where did I say that? Mosley has proven that he is fine at 147.

To address your other points, Adam already explained how even a few pounds can make a big difference for a fighter. If you can't understand (or admit) that then there is no reason to continue this discussion with you.

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I'm sorry, you didn't, but your supporting the same argument that Mosley can't make shed the few pounds without being weight drained. If that is true, then Mosley shouldn't be fighting at Welterweight. Is that not what part of what weightclasses are about? "To keep fighters from having an unfair weight advantage".

Now, I fully understand that it's a valid point for fighters below their weightclass but Mosley is fighting within his weightclass. To say that he'd be weight drained is just a premise for losing in advance.

If Mosley loses, he loses to a better fighter, not because he couldn't plan a proper weight program. Or do you think he's invested in the "De La Hoya fighter's netrution plan". If so it makes Mosley an idiot as well as a loser. Mosley doesn't strike me as an idiot.

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Originally Posted by fan johnny

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Originally Posted by CFH

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Originally Posted by fan johnny

I know exactly what I'm talking about, perhaps you are just having problems reading.

From your statement, I see that you also think Mosley shouldn't be fighting at Welterweight either.

You can be of the opinion that Mosley can't make the catchweigh and not weight drained. but I think it's a stretch. Mosley met Cotto at 146.25, Mosley will be fine at 144/145 catchweigh.

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Where did I say that? Mosley has proven that he is fine at 147.

To address your other points, Adam already explained how even a few pounds can make a big difference for a fighter. If you can't understand (or admit) that then there is no reason to continue this discussion with you.

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I'm sorry, you didn't, but your supporting the same argument that Mosley can't make shed the few pounds without being weight drained. If that is true, then Mosley shouldn't be fighting at Welterweight. Is that not what part of what weightclasses are about? "To keep fighters from having an unfair weight advantage".

Now, I fully understand that it's a valid point for fighters below their weightclass but Mosley is fighting within his weightclass. To say that he'd be weight drained is just a premise for losing in advance.

If Mosley loses, he loses to a better fighter, not because he couldn't plan a proper weight program. Or do you think he's invested in the "De La Hoya fighter's netrution plan". If so it makes Mosley an idiot as well as a loser. Mosley doesn't strike me as an idiot.

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Mosley can compete between 147 - 300 lbs if he wants, it's dropping below 147 which is going to make him weight drained. Just because he fights at both 154 and 147 safely does not mean he can fight below 147. That's a logical falicy. It's got nothing to do with a proper nutrition plan or anything like that, I'm sure De La Hoya had one of the worlds finest nutritionists set up his plan, there is no nutrition plan that can get a fighter to a weight to which he is physically unsuited and have him perform at his best. It's impossible, especially at Mosley's age and considering that he has not fought below 147 in 10 years.

As for you last point, fighters almost always decide on the most profitable fights rather than the most intelligent (relative to their prospects of winning) ones. Is it smart for Mosley to fight Pac at 142/144 regarding his chances for victory? No, it's not, but I'm sure it makes a lot of sense financially. However, as a boxing fan I'm not all that interested in Mosley's finances, I want to see the best fighters fight eachother in the most competitive and fair environments. If Pac doesn't think he can compete at 147 then that's fair enough, stay at 140 and fight Marquez or Mayweather, I have no problem with that. But making welter's fight at weights in which they are not suited in unfair to those fighters and the only reason they would do it is because of the gold-plated carrot dangling in front of their noses.

If Pacquiao beats Mosley at 147, which I think he potentially could, I will give him all the credit in the world. If he beats Mosley below 147 it's a tainted victory in my opinion because he would not be facing the best Shane Mosley.

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Originally Posted by CFH

Mosley can compete between 147 - 300 lbs if he wants, it's dropping below 147 which is going to make him weight drained. Just because he fights at both 154 and 147 safely does not mean he can fight below 147. That's a logical falicy. It's got nothing to do with a proper nutrition plan or anything like that, I'm sure De La Hoya had one of the worlds finest nutritionists set up his plan, there is no nutrition plan that can get a fighter to a weight to which he is physically unsuited and have him perform at his best. It's impossible, especially at Mosley's age and considering that he has not fought below 147 in 10 years.

As for you last point, fighters almost always decide on the most profitable fights rather than the most intelligent (relative to their prospects of winning) ones. Is it smart for Mosley to fight Pac at 142/144 regarding his chances for victory? No, it's not, but I'm sure it makes a lot of sense financially. However, as a boxing fan I'm not all that interested in Mosley's finances, I want to see the best fighters fight eachother in the most competitive and fair environments. If Pac doesn't think he can compete at 147 then that's fair enough, stay at 140 and fight Marquez or Mayweather, I have no problem with that. But making welter's fight at weights in which they are not suited in unfair to those fighters and the only reason they would do it is because of the gold-plated carrot dangling in front of their noses.

If Pacquiao beats Mosley at 147, which I think he potentially could, I will give him all the credit in the world. If he beats Mosley below 147 it's a tainted victory in my opinion because he would not be facing the best Shane Mosley.

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IMO, Mosley would be Pacquiao's toughest challenge and I'm sure if the fight happens, it has a good chance to make the distance and a very challenging and exciting fight to watch. If Mosley were to steps into the ring at 160 vs Pacquiao at 148, Mosley has an even bigger (unfair) advantage, how does that meet your criteria? Roach wouldn't be doing right by Pacquiao to let that happen. Isn't that what everyone was saying would be the case when Pac fought DLH?

I see this as a difference of opinion. I feel that if a fighter cannot fight at any weight within the weightclass, he doesn't belong there. You guys appear to be on the other side of the coin on this one. i.e. Pac doesn't belong there. Hence we have the catchweight to even out the fight.

I don't believe, a catchweight of 145 or even 144 is going to drain him as you and Adam presuppose. (even with that expert opinion) If Mosley was forced to come down to 142, I could agree it's a bit much. Why, because his performance against Margarito was stellar at 147. I didn't see an ounce of weight drain in him in that fight. He fought Cotto at 146.25 in 2007, contrary to your early statement. I believe that all Roach is doing is lowering the handy cap against Mosley because he much bigger. What you guys are stating is just supposition based on a typical fighter which is a subjective opinion and not based on Mosley specific physiology or direct experience working with him.

My best guess is the fight happens at 145, possibly 144 if Mosley can't get Roach up any more, but it ain't going to happen at 42/43, and Roach already conceded 44 even stating it was negotiable.

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Originally Posted by fan johnny

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Originally Posted by CFH

Mosley can compete between 147 - 300 lbs if he wants, it's dropping below 147 which is going to make him weight drained. Just because he fights at both 154 and 147 safely does not mean he can fight below 147. That's a logical falicy. It's got nothing to do with a proper nutrition plan or anything like that, I'm sure De La Hoya had one of the worlds finest nutritionists set up his plan, there is no nutrition plan that can get a fighter to a weight to which he is physically unsuited and have him perform at his best. It's impossible, especially at Mosley's age and considering that he has not fought below 147 in 10 years.

As for you last point, fighters almost always decide on the most profitable fights rather than the most intelligent (relative to their prospects of winning) ones. Is it smart for Mosley to fight Pac at 142/144 regarding his chances for victory? No, it's not, but I'm sure it makes a lot of sense financially. However, as a boxing fan I'm not all that interested in Mosley's finances, I want to see the best fighters fight eachother in the most competitive and fair environments. If Pac doesn't think he can compete at 147 then that's fair enough, stay at 140 and fight Marquez or Mayweather, I have no problem with that. But making welter's fight at weights in which they are not suited in unfair to those fighters and the only reason they would do it is because of the gold-plated carrot dangling in front of their noses.

If Pacquiao beats Mosley at 147, which I think he potentially could, I will give him all the credit in the world. If he beats Mosley below 147 it's a tainted victory in my opinion because he would not be facing the best Shane Mosley.

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IMO, Mosley would be Pacquiao's toughest challenge and I'm sure if the fight happens, it has a good chance to make the distance and a very challenging and exciting fight to watch. If Mosley were to steps into the ring at 160 vs Pacquiao at 148, Mosley has an even bigger (unfair) advantage, how does that meet your criteria? Roach wouldn't be doing right by Pacquiao to let that happen. Isn't that what everyone was saying would be the case when Pac fought DLH?

I see this as a difference of opinion. I feel that if a fighter cannot fight at any weight within the weightclass, he doesn't belong there. You guys appear to be on the other side of the coin on this one. i.e. Pac doesn't belong there. Hence we have the catchweight to even out the fight.

I don't believe, a catchweight of 145 or even 144 is going to drain him as you and Adam presuppose. (even with that expert opinion) If Mosley was forced to come down to 142, I could agree it's a bit much. Why, because his performance against Margarito was stellar at 147. I didn't see an ounce of weight drain in him in that fight. He fought Cotto at 146.25 in 2007, contrary to your early statement. I believe that all Roach is doing is lowering the handy cap against Mosley because he much bigger. What you guys are stating is just supposition based on a typical fighter which is a subjective opinion and not based on Mosley specific physiology or direct experience working with him.

My best guess is the fight happens at 145, possibly 144 if Mosley can't get Roach up any more, but it ain't going to happen at 42/43, and Roach already conceded 44 even stating it was negotiable.

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if it was to ever happen it would be a unique challenge for pacquiao in that he would go from fighting out and out brawlers which manny is well suited to a technical craftsmen of the game with even quicker hands.

Anything below 130 and almost every fight is an out an out slugfest with endless amount of punches. The 3 fights he has had above that he has fought genuine brawlers who like to tear it up in the centre of the ring and its suited mannys counterpunching style to a tee.

Against sugar at 147 or at a catchweight he would be in with someone who will insist on letting pacquiao dictate the pace and catching him coming in and pacquiao would simply have to chase the fight.

Mosley in 9

it's all about evening out the playing field as roach stated. what, you want pac to fight shane at the regular 147lb limit? so, i guess you think it's fair that come fight night mosley would be at 160lb fighting the somewhere between 147-149 pacquiao. a catchweight imo is fair if this fight is ever to happen. 144 or 145lbs is good.

You're right, it is all about evening the playing field... pac wants a welterweight title but Roach is worried that a fully grown welterweight will be too strong. :rolleyes:

The whole point of competative sport is that one man is better than the other... if he wants the accelode of being a Welterweight champ he should fight and beat these guys at their best.

Should a football team use half of it's players to even things out because the other team aren't as strong as they are?... Maybe sprinters should have ankle weights on if they are faster than the competition... it would make things more even... :rolleyes:

There's no such thing as 'fair' in the ring... you want to appear like you have big enough balls to challenge a welterweight for his belt? Do it properly or not at all.

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Originally Posted by AdamGB

You're right, it is all about evening the playing field... pac wants a welterweight title but Roach is worried that a fully grown welterweight will be too strong. :rolleyes:

The whole point of competative sport is that one man is better than the other... if he wants the accelode of being a Welterweight champ he should fight and beat these guys at their best.

Should a football team use half of it's players to even things out because the other team aren't as strong as they are?... Maybe sprinters should have ankle weights on if they are faster than the competition... it would make things more even... :rolleyes:

There's no such thing as 'fair' in the ring... you want to appear like you have big enough balls to challenge a welterweight for his belt? Do it properly or not at all.

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you're right! but the thing is it's mosley who wants the fight. so, it plays both ways. he wants a crack at a megafight against manny, he has to give some of his advantage to get it.

yes, the gold plated carrot that they are dangling in front of Mosely is bigger than pac's want for a 7th title.

Any other fighter moving up in weight to challenge the champ would just get laughed at for even asking.

Pac is worth a lot of money which is why these guys will do it, that's the way of the world but I just hope that Pac fan boys realise that he is using more than just his boxing abilities to make a victory happen here and if he does beat another weight drained fighter he's obviously not going to mention this.

It will be a legendary 7th title win but if he manages to weight drain Mosely like he is clearly trying to it should be a tainted one.

it will be a little tainted i suppose if manny wins cos shane has to give up a couple of pounds. but manny would still be the smaller man giving shane an advantage in size having weighed in at 142 and 139lbs in his last 2 fights which are actually the heaviest he's been at. i think there would be some commendation in that.