Re: Arum to Bunce: "Sturm in October, Froch in January is the plan"
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Originally Posted by
Tam Seddon
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Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
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Originally Posted by
Tam Seddon
B hop would beat Froch hands down and I dont deny that fact, Froch-Pavlik is a totally different fight to the Hopkins one because anything could happen in any round. Pavlik or Froch could pull a knockout, or Carl Froch in the later rounds can change his game plan and try and box like he did against Pascal, I think Pavlik would struggle with that change of pace. Kessler is too overrated hes not done anything since a losing fight to JC, whats he done since ? Carls fought and beaten a better fighter in JT and Kessler hasnt done anything. Bute-Froch would be a tough fight for Carl I dont deny that fact, but Carl would be the hardest fight to date for Bute and I think Carl could stop him late in an exciting fight. As for Andrade, are you serious? Andrade wouldnt take Carl in the later rounds, it would be an exciting fight of who has the better chins, and I think Carl is technically better than Andrade and he would win a UD.
IMO Pavlik has more power than Froch, and i'd say their chin's are about even, both were dropped identically against Taylor, only difference was once Pavlik hurt Taylor and dropped him, he didn't get up, i don't think Froch is #1 at 168 by any means, that goes to Kessler
Why do you rate Kessler at number one though ? He hasnt fought anybody since JC, which he lost to anyway and his promotion team are a joke. Carl has two bigger wins in Pascal and JT and hes still undefeated...Also if Pascal comes light heavyweight champion this weekend Carl has beaten him already which shows that Pascal is still a challenger at any weight. I think Kessler CAN be the best in the weight class, but he doesnt show me that through lack of top rated fights and inactivity. I rank Bute higher than Kessler IMO.
wouldn't really use the JT fight to try and put Froch above Kessler, cause even in the Calzaghe fight Kessler wasn't dominated, lets be honest, aside from the last 4 rounds Froch was getting owned by Taylor, i honestly still feel Taylor deserves a rematch, and it was a good fight that i wouldn't mind seeing again, i have Kessler as #1 by default, he was #2 even after the loss to Calzaghe, and well Bute IMO is at #2, Andrade and Froch basically either one at #3
Re: Arum to Bunce: "Sturm in October, Froch in January is the plan"
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Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tam Seddon
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
IMO Pavlik has more power than Froch, and i'd say their chin's are about even, both were dropped identically against Taylor, only difference was once Pavlik hurt Taylor and dropped him, he didn't get up, i don't think Froch is #1 at 168 by any means, that goes to Kessler
Why do you rate Kessler at number one though ? He hasnt fought anybody since JC, which he lost to anyway and his promotion team are a joke. Carl has two bigger wins in Pascal and JT and hes still undefeated...Also if Pascal comes light heavyweight champion this weekend Carl has beaten him already which shows that Pascal is still a challenger at any weight. I think Kessler CAN be the best in the weight class, but he doesnt show me that through lack of top rated fights and inactivity. I rank Bute higher than Kessler IMO.
wouldn't really use the JT fight to try and put Froch above Kessler, cause even in the Calzaghe fight Kessler wasn't dominated, lets be honest, aside from the last 4 rounds Froch was getting owned by Taylor, i honestly still feel Taylor deserves a rematch, and it was a good fight that i wouldn't mind seeing again, i have Kessler as #1 by default, he was #2 even after the loss to Calzaghe, and well Bute IMO is at #2, Andrade and Froch basically either one at #3
Fair enough Kessler did take the number one spot when JC left, but ever since then his wins in comparison to Froch and Bute arent big enough and hes been inactive, I dont see why he has to hold the number one spot because IMO hes not done enough, my point is that he CAN be number one again but not at this momment until he fights somebody of notice and trys to go after Froch or Bute. As for a rematch with Taylor what would it prove? Not a lot I think, Taylor has poor stamina and when Carl changed his game plan and upped the pace Taylor couldnt cope and he got KTFO ! I think thats the outcome if it ever happened again IMO, Taylor doesnt have the stamina to fight a pressure fighter for 12 rounds without getting stopped.
Re: Arum to Bunce: "Sturm in October, Froch in January is the plan"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tam Seddon
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Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
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Originally Posted by
Tam Seddon
career defining fight for my man, I know he can take Pavlik. It will be so good if this happens, Carl finally gets notion for once from a top promoter
thing is if Pavlik drops Froch the way Taylor did, he finishes him, that being said, it's a toss up fight
Pavlik wont be as fasting starting as Taylor was, if Taylor fights in the first 5 rounds throughout the whole 12 he would beat ANY fighter believe me on that one. I think your correct its a pick em fight, but Pavlik wouldnt have fough anybody like Froch before, whos shown he can really dig deep when he needs too. I think its a battle of power and who has the better chin, both like to apply pressure and come forward thats why I think this fight really could have fight of the year written all over it.
Agree that Froch v. Pavlik has fight of the year written all over it. Froch came off like a twit for going on and on about Calzaghe, but coming to the states and beating Jermain and then wanting to fight Bute and Hopkins - the guy has balls. Straight up. Plus he is fun to watch because his defense is porous and his style is awkward. Also, from what I've seen he has shown respect for JT and has shown respect for KP. The fight being at 168 levels the playing field a bit. I still lean toward Pavlik. Froch doesn't have the style that will bother him. I would guess mid-fight KO. I don't think the fight happens, however, because I don't see Froch beating Bute who is lined up to fight him first.
[quote=bzkfn;744081]
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Originally Posted by
JazMerkin
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Originally Posted by
bzkfn
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Seems clear to me they hope to avoid Abraham. This way though, Pavlik comes out looking like the superstar of the Middleweight division, and who is there left for Abraham to fight thats meaningful? Apart from Winky or Paul Williams, he doesn't have many options at 160 other than paper opposition.
I've never met a fight fan who loathes Pavlik more. I've never read a positive post from you about Pavlik. Why would Pavlik avoid AA? Think about it - he fought Miranda when Miranda looked like the real deal and where he was a 3-1 underdog. He then fought Taylor when he was even more of an underdog. Then Taylor again when most favored him to lose. Then Bernard Hopkins. He just doesn't strike me as someone who avoids fighters.
I also agree on the point that Kessler hasn't fought a meaningful fight since losing to JC in 2007. He also hasn't fought in 8 months with no fights on the horizon and knee-deep in a promotional dispute that could drag on for another year. There is no evidence to suggest that he will ever be in pre-JC form. He didn't look amazing against Hausler et al. However, if he was in pre-JC form, he would be favored to beat Bute, Froch, Pavlik, and AA. But, that is a moot point. He isn't fighting. For now, he is irrelevant.
Re: Arum to Bunce: "Sturm in October, Froch in January is the plan"
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Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
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Originally Posted by
bzkfn
Seems clear to me they hope to avoid Abraham. This way though, Pavlik comes out looking like the superstar of the Middleweight division, and who is there left for Abraham to fight thats meaningful? Apart from Winky or Paul Williams, he doesn't have many options at 160 other than paper opposition.
I've never met a fight fan who loathes Pavlik more. I've never read a positive post from you about Pavlik. Why would Pavlik avoid AA? Think about it - he fought Miranda when Miranda looked like the real deal and where he was a 3-1 underdog. He then fought Taylor when he was even more of an underdog. Then Taylor again when most favored him to lose. Then Bernard Hopkins. He just doesn't strike me as someone who avoids fighters.
I also agree on the point that Kessler hasn't fought a meaningful fight since losing to JC in 2007. He also hasn't fought in 8 months with no fights on the horizon and knee-deep in a promotional dispute that could drag on for another year. There is no evidence to suggest that he will ever be in pre-JC form. He didn't look amazing against Hausler et al. However, if he was in pre-JC form, he would be favored to beat Bute, Froch, Pavlik, and AA. But, that is a moot point. He isn't fighting. For now, he is irrelevant.
I didn't say Pavlik was avoiding it. What I meant was, Bob Arum doesn't fancy it. I don't loathe Kelly at all. I love his style. The guy brings action and is rarely in a dull fight. It's just if we're being honest, he and Abraham should be together in the ring. Every time Abraham tries to establish negotiations, Arum is there telling the media that someone like John Duddy or Sergio Mora makes better financial sense and would be a fight the fans want more. I mean...are you fucking kidding me? Honestly, the whole point of having Abraham come to the US to fight Miranda was to get his name in place for a big meeting with Pavlik. Then when Pavlik signed to fight Mora, Abraham was going to get his mandatory against Lorenzo out of the way in the US on the same day to again get the media talking up comparisons. Then recently a deal looked to be closing towards the end of the year, Sauerland said he was in negotiations and once again Top Rank say they're going in a different direction with Sturm. Don't get me wrong, I like the Sturm and Froch fights, but Sturm followed by Froch suggests a clear intent to move up to 168 and not fight Abraham. Like I said though...its clever, because if Arum doesn't fancy the Abraham fight for Kelly, he has taken all Abraham's options away so Kelly comes off looking like the guy who has tried to establish his career.
Re: Arum to Bunce: "Sturm in October, Froch in January is the plan"
Pavlik is the better fighter technically, he's a better boxer but Froch is probably sturdier which could make the difference considering even though Pavlik is more technical than Froch he's not that hard to hit. I'll still go with Pavlik though as he shouldn't have a hard time landing the right hand and Froch, good chin or not, can't take those all night long.
Re: Arum to Bunce: "Sturm in October, Froch in January is the plan"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bzkfn
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bzkfn
Seems clear to me they hope to avoid Abraham. This way though, Pavlik comes out looking like the superstar of the Middleweight division, and who is there left for Abraham to fight thats meaningful? Apart from Winky or Paul Williams, he doesn't have many options at 160 other than paper opposition.
I've never met a fight fan who loathes Pavlik more. I've never read a positive post from you about Pavlik. Why would Pavlik avoid AA? Think about it - he fought Miranda when Miranda looked like the real deal and where he was a 3-1 underdog. He then fought Taylor when he was even more of an underdog. Then Taylor again when most favored him to lose. Then Bernard Hopkins. He just doesn't strike me as someone who avoids fighters.
I also agree on the point that Kessler hasn't fought a meaningful fight since losing to JC in 2007. He also hasn't fought in 8 months with no fights on the horizon and knee-deep in a promotional dispute that could drag on for another year. There is no evidence to suggest that he will ever be in pre-JC form. He didn't look amazing against Hausler et al. However, if he was in pre-JC form, he would be favored to beat Bute, Froch, Pavlik, and AA. But, that is a moot point. He isn't fighting. For now, he is irrelevant.
I didn't say Pavlik was avoiding it. What I meant was, Bob Arum doesn't fancy it. I don't loathe Kelly at all. I love his style. The guy brings action and is rarely in a dull fight. It's just if we're being honest, he and Abraham should be together in the ring. Every time Abraham tries to establish negotiations, Arum is there telling the media that someone like John Duddy or Sergio Mora makes better financial sense and would be a fight the fans want more. I mean...are you fucking kidding me? Honestly, the whole point of having Abraham come to the US to fight Miranda was to get his name in place for a big meeting with Pavlik. Then when Pavlik signed to fight Mora, Abraham was going to get his mandatory against Lorenzo out of the way in the US on the same day to again get the media talking up comparisons. Then recently a deal looked to be closing towards the end of the year, Sauerland said he was in negotiations and once again Top Rank say they're going in a different direction with Sturm. Don't get me wrong, I like the Sturm and Froch fights, but Sturm followed by Froch suggests a clear intent to move up to 168 and not fight Abraham. Like I said though...its clever, because if Arum doesn't fancy the Abraham fight for Kelly, he has taken all Abraham's options away so Kelly comes off looking like the guy who has tried to establish his career.
Fair enough. My thing is I don't see AA as a spoiler of Pavlik's plans. I just don't see it. I can see AA winning, but the fight would be a scrap and close. If you want to keep Pavlik away from fighters, keep him away from techinically sound, fast boxers. On that note, I can see Sturm as having the potential to sneak away with a win over Pavlik. He wouldn't hurt Kelly, but he does have boxing skills (I still pick KP). In terms of Froch, Arum probably thinks the Froch fight isn't risky and will be an entertaining fight and that is why he is even in the mix. But, it won't happen if Froch loses against Bute.
