Dan Rafael blog: Serious talks underway for Pavlik-Williams and other tid bits

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Originally Posted by CFH

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Originally Posted by ClubberLang

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Originally Posted by LEGION

Too bad this Mora fight didn't happen a couple of years ago like it was supposed to before Mora was making too many demands; if I remember correctly.

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He had a deal to fight Taylor but refused to do it because it would be in Taylor's backyard.

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That was one of the smartest things he ever did IMO. The only way he was winning that fight was by ko, which was pretty much impossible. People slagged him off (and still do) for that decision, but it led him directly to a LMW championship and legitimacy. If he had fought Taylor and lost (as he almost certainly would have) he would have immediately because completely irrelevant (even more so) and marginal; that fight would have effectively ended his career.

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It's easy to say he was smart in hindsight, but at the time he left a shot at the undisputed middleweight title and a $1 million payday on the table with no assurances that a similar offer would ever present itself. Then he had that dreadful draw that by all rights should have ended any hopes he had of getting an important fight. He got lucky with the Forrest fight as far as I'm concerned (maybe not with his performance but definitely that it was offered).

Big Props to Rafael for calling out David Haye!!!


Here are my picks for the mentioned fights:

Williams-Pavlik....The Punisher, by KO! Pavlik has personal issues and Williams' style is awkward and his output is above average, Pavlik is going to get shook early, try to force his way back in the fight and then get put down for good with a HUGE left cross. Pavlik is done at 160 and will move up to 168....just my opinion though

Ward-Kessler...Kessler by SD, down on points knocks Ward down late and finishes strong

Abraham-Taylor...Taylor by SD (if the fight is in the US) Abraham by UD if the fight is in Germany

Dirrell-Froch....Dirrell by KO

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Originally Posted by ClubberLang

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Originally Posted by CFH

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Originally Posted by ClubberLang

He had a deal to fight Taylor but refused to do it because it would be in Taylor's backyard.

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That was one of the smartest things he ever did IMO. The only way he was winning that fight was by ko, which was pretty much impossible. People slagged him off (and still do) for that decision, but it led him directly to a LMW championship and legitimacy. If he had fought Taylor and lost (as he almost certainly would have) he would have immediately because completely irrelevant (even more so) and marginal; that fight would have effectively ended his career.

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It's easy to say he was smart in hindsight, but at the time he left a shot at the undisputed middleweight title and a $1 million payday on the table with no assurances that a similar offer would ever present itself. Then he had that dreadful draw that by all rights should have ended any hopes he had of getting an important fight. He got lucky with the Forrest fight as far as I'm concerned (maybe not with his performance but definitely that it was offered).

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It's not just smart in hindsight, it was smart at the time. Mora knew he had no way of winning that fight, he wasn't going to stop Taylor and he wasn't going to beat him convincingly enough that he could win a points decision in his backyard. He loses that fight and his career is effectively over or at least severely retarded. Was turning down 1 million dollars a gamble? Absolutely, but it was one that paid off and Mora made the right decision.

As for him getting lucky with the Forrest fight, perhaps. However, the Contender people have long shown a willingness to sell out their charges by throwing them in against champs and very good fighters looking for an easy victory. I'm sure Mora knew that.

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Originally Posted by CFH

I'm a huge Willams fan and I despise Pavlik, but I think the Ghost takes this one. Williams is going to get hit, he always does, and Pavlik for all his shortcomings has a ton of power. Should be a great fight though, with both men's styles and workrates I could see it being FOTY material.

Pavlik by stoppage in a fight he is behind on the cards.

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Why do you despise Pavlik or do you mean you just despise his style?

Williams on the cards. With his workrate, Williams is like a smaller, less-finetuned Calzaghe. The questions are: can Kelly time Pwill's flurries and can Pwill handle a KP right hand?

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Big Props to Rafael for calling out David Haye!!!


Here are my picks for the mentioned fights:

Williams-Pavlik....The Punisher, by KO! Pavlik has personal issues and Williams' style is awkward and his output is above average, Pavlik is going to get shook early, try to force his way back in the fight and then get put down for good with a HUGE left cross. Pavlik is done at 160 and will move up to 168....just my opinion though

Ward-Kessler...Kessler by SD, down on points knocks Ward down late and finishes strong

Abraham-Taylor...Taylor by SD (if the fight is in the US) Abraham by UD if the fight is in Germany

Dirrell-Froch....Dirrell by KO

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Ward by SD - fight is in Oakland.
Abraham v. Taylor - tough fight to pick. AA by knockout or Taylor by decision.
Dirrell by KO? Really? Explain.

Rafael does not seem to think getting around Mora will be an issue. From his chat today:

James (Ashville, NC)




Sergio Mora has been saying Pavlik legally has to face him and he won't step aside. Could this be a problem making Pavlik-Williams?
Dan Rafael (1:41 PM)





They'll work that out I am sure. I feel bad for Mora because he does have a contract but I am pretty sure it will be resolved.

Chat: Chat with Dan Rafael - SportsNation - ESPN

He also said the fight was far from a done deal because they are far apart on what the split should be. I am a Williams fan and think he wis the better fighter, but from a financial perspective Pavlik is the champ and is the bigger draw. If he wants a big fight, he has to relize that at this point he'll have to get the short end of the stick.

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Originally Posted by CFH

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Originally Posted by ClubberLang

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Originally Posted by CFH

That was one of the smartest things he ever did IMO. The only way he was winning that fight was by ko, which was pretty much impossible. People slagged him off (and still do) for that decision, but it led him directly to a LMW championship and legitimacy. If he had fought Taylor and lost (as he almost certainly would have) he would have immediately because completely irrelevant (even more so) and marginal; that fight would have effectively ended his career.

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It's easy to say he was smart in hindsight, but at the time he left a shot at the undisputed middleweight title and a $1 million payday on the table with no assurances that a similar offer would ever present itself. Then he had that dreadful draw that by all rights should have ended any hopes he had of getting an important fight. He got lucky with the Forrest fight as far as I'm concerned (maybe not with his performance but definitely that it was offered).

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It's not just smart in hindsight, it was smart at the time. Mora knew he had no way of winning that fight, he wasn't going to stop Taylor and he wasn't going to beat him convincingly enough that he could win a points decision in his backyard. He loses that fight and his career is effectively over or at least severely retarded. Was turning down 1 million dollars a gamble? Absolutely, but it was one that paid off and Mora made the right decision.

As for him getting lucky with the Forrest fight, perhaps. However, the Contender people have long shown a willingness to sell out their charges by throwing them in against champs and very good fighters looking for an easy victory. I'm sure Mora knew that.

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It was dumb because Sergio was riding at the heighth of his popularity from the Contender and you have to strike while the iron is hot. He had no way of knowing if he would keep winning and remain popular enough to get another lucrative opportunity for a legit title. In fact, he had that draw against a nobody that I thought was a gift and should have been a loss, and that could have easily been the end of him. I think he got lucky with the Forrest fight, and although he won don't forget his payday was about half what he would have made against Taylor. Manfredo's loss to Calzaghe did not end his career, I doubt losing to Taylor would have hurt Mora too badly since no one thought he'd win anyway.

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

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Originally Posted by CFH

I'm a huge Willams fan and I despise Pavlik, but I think the Ghost takes this one. Williams is going to get hit, he always does, and Pavlik for all his shortcomings has a ton of power. Should be a great fight though, with both men's styles and workrates I could see it being FOTY material.

Pavlik by stoppage in a fight he is behind on the cards.

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Why do you despise Pavlik or do you mean you just despise his style?

Williams on the cards. With his workrate, Williams is like a smaller, less-finetuned Calzaghe. The questions are: can Kelly time Pwill's flurries and can Pwill handle a KP right hand?

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Pavlik has an awesome style and I really should be a fan of his, and I was a fan of his until recently. However, I loathe Jack Loew, that fat fuck runs his mouth like he's the one doing the fighting, talking shit about other fighters etc. and generally acting like a douche. I also dislike Pavlik because of his bullshit "everyman persona", that's as bit as phony as Hatton's (if not more so).

I really should like him, but I just don't.

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Originally Posted by ClubberLang

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Originally Posted by CFH

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Originally Posted by ClubberLang

It's easy to say he was smart in hindsight, but at the time he left a shot at the undisputed middleweight title and a $1 million payday on the table with no assurances that a similar offer would ever present itself. Then he had that dreadful draw that by all rights should have ended any hopes he had of getting an important fight. He got lucky with the Forrest fight as far as I'm concerned (maybe not with his performance but definitely that it was offered).

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It's not just smart in hindsight, it was smart at the time. Mora knew he had no way of winning that fight, he wasn't going to stop Taylor and he wasn't going to beat him convincingly enough that he could win a points decision in his backyard. He loses that fight and his career is effectively over or at least severely retarded. Was turning down 1 million dollars a gamble? Absolutely, but it was one that paid off and Mora made the right decision.

As for him getting lucky with the Forrest fight, perhaps. However, the Contender people have long shown a willingness to sell out their charges by throwing them in against champs and very good fighters looking for an easy victory. I'm sure Mora knew that.

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It was dumb because Sergio was riding at the heighth of his popularity from the Contender and you have to strike while the iron is hot. He had no way of knowing if he would keep winning and remain popular enough to get another lucrative opportunity for a legit title. In fact, he had that draw against a nobody that I thought was a gift and should have been a loss, and that could have easily been the end of him. I think he got lucky with the Forrest fight, and although he won don't forget his payday was about half what he would have made against Taylor. Manfredo's loss to Calzaghe did not end his career, I doubt losing to Taylor would have hurt Mora too badly since no one thought he'd win anyway.

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I disagree for the reasons I stated in my last reply, but you have a valid position as well. I also think he got a gift in that fight. No sense going round and round in circles with this though.

Manfredo's loss to Calzaghe didn't end his career, but it did set him back a ways. I actually think if he hadn't been kind of screwed over by Freddie Roach he could've held a title at 154/160. He showed serious improvement after working with Roach but seemed to almost instantly regress afterwards.

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Originally Posted by RP33

I would pay any PPV price to see Pavlik KO Mora.

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That would be the exact way the fight will end and thats worth the price

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Originally Posted by CFH

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

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Originally Posted by CFH

I'm a huge Willams fan and I despise Pavlik, but I think the Ghost takes this one. Williams is going to get hit, he always does, and Pavlik for all his shortcomings has a ton of power. Should be a great fight though, with both men's styles and workrates I could see it being FOTY material.

Pavlik by stoppage in a fight he is behind on the cards.

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Why do you despise Pavlik or do you mean you just despise his style?

Williams on the cards. With his workrate, Williams is like a smaller, less-finetuned Calzaghe. The questions are: can Kelly time Pwill's flurries and can Pwill handle a KP right hand?

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Pavlik has an awesome style and I really should be a fan of his, and I was a fan of his until recently. However, I loathe Jack Loew, that fat fuck runs his mouth like he's the one doing the fighting, talking shit about other fighters etc. and generally acting like a douche. I also dislike Pavlik because of his bullshit "everyman persona", that's as bit as phony as Hatton's (if not more so).

I really should like him, but I just don't.

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Understand, I don't care of you like him or not, as we all have our views.
I just don't understand why you think his "everyman persona" is phony. He seems pretty nonchalant and laid back; and genuinely a "man of the people", at least from where he lives. Tbh it's more his attitude lately that rubs me wrong; being some pompous ass and degrading the SMW Tournament when he should be praising such things in this sport that needs more public exposure. Jmo....keep on hating;D {Jack Loew is a jackass though I won't dispute that....got himself some fame off a guy and let it get to him}

Here, if you want to hear what Sergio has to say about all of this, go here to listen to his podcast interview. Just click on his pic in the podcast selections.


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Pavlik will eat dirt in this fight. Paul is hungry for a top fight. Too bad most fighters dont want to fight him. Why doesnt anyone talk about him like other fighters. He can still fight at 147 but was ran up. He can fight at 154 but was ran up. U people dont know but we are missing out on a special fighter. Most people have the I like him but "I dont want him to fight my man" mentality. Paul is a winner.