Re: the jones of today vs pavlik
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Originally Posted by
CFH
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Originally Posted by
Majesty
lol all this "If Roy lays against the ropes he is gonna get KO'd" Didn't people say the same thing about the Lacy fight?
Roy hits a lot harder then Hopkins or Taylor and Pavlik has shown he doesn't have a "steel" chin either. Hopkins had him baffled and on queer street and hurt at times at 168 at 175 Roy would completely dismantle him.
Hopkins hit Pavlik flush all night and never once had him seriously hurt.
Also, comparing Pavlik to Lacy is utterly ridiculous.
I'm pretty sure there was points in the fight Hopkins had Pavlik on jelly legs with a left uppercut in the 2nd round.
Watch the Hopkins fight Pavlik goes into such a bad defensive shell in the center of the ring when you open up offensively Roy would have a field day with him. Pavlik isn't the kind of person that throws a bunch of punches around and he gets hit very easily. Roy would beat Pavlik in the same kind of way Hopkins did, Pavlik would take a lot of punches in the center of the ring when Roy opens up offensively and especially at 175 I can see Pavlik getting stopped.
You can call all Roys punches smoke and mirrors if you want, tell that to Lacy's face, if you can still recognize it
Re: the jones of today vs pavlik
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Originally Posted by
OumaFan
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Originally Posted by
Majesty
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Originally Posted by
OumaFan
LOL Lacy's just not good, sorry to his fans but he's just completely lost whatever he once had, he barely beat Mendoza ffs. I think Roy laying against the ropes is a bad move against Pavlik but I didn't think it mattered against Lacy, I picked Jones to TKO him knowing that he'd lay on the ropes all night. He doesn't have the legs to stay in the center of the ring or move.
And Roy doesn't hit harder than Hopkins now. He just doesn't seem to get much on his punches these days.
Could Roy win? I guess. Kelly's got his vulnerabilities we all know that. But he's no Jeff Lacy. This Roy thing now is smoke and mirrors IMO. The Calzaghe fight was depressing and I'm not even a big fan and that was what a year ago?
If you think Pavlik is going to smother Roy and throw 100 punches a round and use that for refence. Pavlik's performance against Hopkins was sad, and he is supposed to be in his prime.
Pavlik isn't so great that he would dominate Roy Jones Jr much less at 175. Pavlik's only chance would be to land that huge right hand how do we even know if Pavlik's power carries all the way up to 175 and Calzaghe at 168 hit Roy with everything he had and Roy also had a bad cut yet was never close to being stopped in that fight but Pavlik moving up two weight classes is gonna stop him by putting him up against the ropes and land the one hail mary shot that's gonna knock him out. Pavlik isn't even gonna do what Johnson did to Roy by smothering him with endless punches, Pavlik is gonna try to cut the ring off and measure Jones so he can land a bit right hand. Pavlik goes into a shell too similar to what people say Roy does when people throw their offense at him and it gets him in trouble at times. The difference is Roy doesn't have to worry about getting outworked if he goes into a shell all he has to do is watch for that right hand. But he can outwork Pavlik when Pavlik goes into a shell just as bad as people say Roy goes into.
I don't get why people acknowledge only Roy's chin and defensive lapses yet ignore Pavliks.
First, LOL at the last line, all people do on here is talk about Pavlik's defensive lapses. His chin, meh, its not the best in the world but he always recovers, I think he should at least be knocked out first before we grant him a glass jaw.
I don't think Pavlik will try to smother Jones like Lacy did. Lacy was perfect, put his head on Jones and threw looping punches, Jones could lay back against the ropes, rattle off flurries and left hooks to the head and body all night. Pavlik will back him into the ropes (or Jones will back himself into the ropes) and Pavlik will try to keep him on the defensive with the jab, attempt to land the right hand, some left hooks to the body. Its predictable but a lot more dangerous than Lacy, Roy at least has to worry about a jab in his face, and a straight right hand from Pavlik and will have to put himself in harm's way more often when he attacks.
And I think you would agree that Hopkins is more difficult sylistically for Pavlik right? I mean the last thing a guy like Pavlik wants is intelligent movement and a guy who's still the best in boxing at taking away a jab. Hopkins couldn't be more wrong for Pavlik. With Roy he still has things to worry about, but he's got a stationary target which is huge and as a result he can set his feet to punch, which is huge.
The main thing is everyone talks about how Roy will back into the ropes and what Pavlik will do and they talk about how stationary Lacy was. But they ignore that Pavlik is just as stationary when people open up offensively on him and do you think he could afford to do that with Roy at 175? What we did see in the Lacy fight is that no one can afford to just stand still and not throw with Roy, well thats exactly what Pavlik does when someone opens up offensively on him so why are people ignoring the things Pavlik does as his foil but they only talk about Roy backing into the ropes being his. It's not like Pavlik would be completely fine going into a defensive earmuffs shell against Roy in the center of the ring either.
Re: the jones of today vs pavlik
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Originally Posted by
Majesty
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Originally Posted by
CFH
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Originally Posted by
Majesty
lol all this "If Roy lays against the ropes he is gonna get KO'd" Didn't people say the same thing about the Lacy fight?
Roy hits a lot harder then Hopkins or Taylor and Pavlik has shown he doesn't have a "steel" chin either. Hopkins had him baffled and on queer street and hurt at times at 168 at 175 Roy would completely dismantle him.
Hopkins hit Pavlik flush all night and never once had him seriously hurt.
Also, comparing Pavlik to Lacy is utterly ridiculous.
I'm pretty sure there was points in the fight Hopkins had Pavlik on jelly legs with a left uppercut in the 2nd round.
Watch the Hopkins fight Pavlik goes into such a bad defensive shell in the center of the ring when you open up offensively Roy would have a field day with him. Pavlik isn't the kind of person that throws a bunch of punches around and he gets hit very easily. Roy would beat Pavlik in the same kind of way Hopkins did, Pavlik would take a lot of punches in the center of the ring when Roy opens up offensively and especially at 175 I can see Pavlik getting stopped.
You can call all Roys punches smoke and mirrors if you want, tell that to Lacy's face, if you can still recognize it
I wasn't aware that I had said anything about Jones' punches, thanks for the info :thumb:
Hopkins may have stunned Pavlik, but he never once had him on "queer street" in my recollection.
Re: the jones of today vs pavlik
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Originally Posted by
CFH
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Originally Posted by
Majesty
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Originally Posted by
CFH
Hopkins hit Pavlik flush all night and never once had him seriously hurt.
Also, comparing Pavlik to Lacy is utterly ridiculous.
I'm pretty sure there was points in the fight Hopkins had Pavlik on jelly legs with a left uppercut in the 2nd round.
Watch the Hopkins fight Pavlik goes into such a bad defensive shell in the center of the ring when you open up offensively Roy would have a field day with him. Pavlik isn't the kind of person that throws a bunch of punches around and he gets hit very easily. Roy would beat Pavlik in the same kind of way Hopkins did, Pavlik would take a lot of punches in the center of the ring when Roy opens up offensively and especially at 175 I can see Pavlik getting stopped.
You can call all Roys punches smoke and mirrors if you want, tell that to Lacy's face, if you can still recognize it
I wasn't aware that I had said anything about Jones' punches, thanks for the info :thumb:
sorry that was towards oumafan
Re: the jones of today vs pavlik
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Originally Posted by
Majesty
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Originally Posted by
CFH
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Originally Posted by
Majesty
I'm pretty sure there was points in the fight Hopkins had Pavlik on jelly legs with a left uppercut in the 2nd round.
Watch the Hopkins fight Pavlik goes into such a bad defensive shell in the center of the ring when you open up offensively Roy would have a field day with him. Pavlik isn't the kind of person that throws a bunch of punches around and he gets hit very easily. Roy would beat Pavlik in the same kind of way Hopkins did, Pavlik would take a lot of punches in the center of the ring when Roy opens up offensively and especially at 175 I can see Pavlik getting stopped.
You can call all Roys punches smoke and mirrors if you want, tell that to Lacy's face, if you can still recognize it
I wasn't aware that I had said anything about Jones' punches, thanks for the info :thumb:
sorry that was towards oumafan
No problem, I just didn't understand why it appeared to be directed at me.
Re: the jones of today vs pavlik
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Originally Posted by
Spicoli
Pavlik too long,straight and strong for Roy at 40.Come on?His one deminsion would suit him well and Jones could not hang on the ropes.I dont think Roy would be able to walk to Pavlik as Hopkins did.
Pavlik's power was gone at 168. At 174 he'd really be done, roy would stop him late. Pavlik made Bhop's hands look like meldrick taylor.. Roy would look like E.Honda from street fighter.
Re: the jones of today vs pavlik
Lets not base anything on the Lacy fight because anyone could have looked good against Jeff.....I think Kid Thunder is fighting him next and is the clear Vegas favorite 50-1.......
Jones is too timid from big shots these days....Fighting scared is dangerous because you are tense and the KO is easier to score.....
Kelly would be patient early and give Roy more respect then need be but by the 5th he would start to open up and score a KO
Re: the jones of today vs pavlik
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CFH
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Majesty
lol all this "If Roy lays against the ropes he is gonna get KO'd" Didn't people say the same thing about the Lacy fight?
Roy hits a lot harder then Hopkins or Taylor and Pavlik has shown he doesn't have a "steel" chin either. Hopkins had him baffled and on queer street and hurt at times at 168 at 175 Roy would completely dismantle him.
Hopkins hit Pavlik flush all night and never once had him seriously hurt.
Also, comparing Pavlik to Lacy is utterly ridiculous.
Are you serious? Watch the fight again. In the 12th, Pavlik could have been stopped.
Re: the jones of today vs pavlik
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Originally Posted by
DaxxKahn
Lets not base anything on the Lacy fight because anyone could have looked good against Jeff.....I think Kid Thunder is fighting him next and is the clear Vegas favorite 50-1.......
Jones is too timid from big shots these days....Fighting scared is dangerous because you are tense and the KO is easier to score.....
Kelly would be patient early and give Roy more respect then need be but by the 5th he would start to open up and score a KO
Score a kayo at 174? I doubt it..he looked like shit at 168. He was super slow...his abilities are maxed at 160...Roy would make him look like clinton woods even at 40. Besides once Kelly loses to PW...he'll be gone for a while and there will be no more talk of this hypothetical Pavlik-Jones match up.
Re: the jones of today vs pavlik
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Originally Posted by
bzkfn
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Originally Posted by
CFH
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Originally Posted by
Majesty
lol all this "If Roy lays against the ropes he is gonna get KO'd" Didn't people say the same thing about the Lacy fight?
Roy hits a lot harder then Hopkins or Taylor and Pavlik has shown he doesn't have a "steel" chin either. Hopkins had him baffled and on queer street and hurt at times at 168 at 175 Roy would completely dismantle him.
Hopkins hit Pavlik flush all night and never once had him seriously hurt.
Also, comparing Pavlik to Lacy is utterly ridiculous.
Are you serious? Watch the fight again.
In the 12th, Pavlik could have been stopped.
You're completely wrong. The only time Pavlik was hurt at all was in the opening 30 seconds of the round, he clinched and recovered. Even when he got buzzed, Pavlik still had his legs and his wits about him. There was no point in the 12th where the fight could have legitimately been stopped unless you're saying he shouldn't have been allowed to come out for the 12th round because of the punishment he had taken throughout the fight, something else I would disagree with.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXVuq...2E7B2C&index=8At what point of round 12 should he have been stopped?
Re: the jones of today vs pavlik
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Originally Posted by
CFH
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Originally Posted by
bzkfn
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Originally Posted by
CFH
Hopkins hit Pavlik flush all night and never once had him seriously hurt.
Also, comparing Pavlik to Lacy is utterly ridiculous.
Are you serious? Watch the fight again.
In the 12th, Pavlik could have been stopped.
You're completely wrong. The only time Pavlik was hurt at all was in the opening 30 seconds of the round, he clinched and recovered. Even when he got buzzed, Pavlik still had his legs and his wits about him. There was no point in the 12th where the fight could have legitimately been stopped unless you're saying he shouldn't have been allowed to come out for the 12th round because of the punishment he had taken throughout the fight, something else I would disagree with.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXVuq...2E7B2C&index=8At what point of round 12 should he have been stopped?
In those first 30 seconds if that had been Roy and at 175 and Pavlik had taken that kind of a beating for the previous 11 rounds ;) Do you think Pavlik would have survived an entire fight with that defensive shell he goes into, he almost only throws when someone backs off of him and gives him room when he is smothered he covers up and goes on the defensive. Do you think he could have beaten Roy Jones Jr fighting him like that? Roy would have torn him up and fought him when he wanted to. What Roy would have done was probably try to circle out of range of Pavliks right hands and then jump in with a quick shot causing Kelly to go into that shell again and then unload on him. He wouldnt have to worry about resting against the ropes because he could do it in the center of the ring :)
Re: the jones of today vs pavlik
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Originally Posted by
Majesty
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CFH
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Originally Posted by
bzkfn
Are you serious? Watch the fight again. In the 12th, Pavlik could have been stopped.
You're completely wrong. The only time Pavlik was hurt at all was in the opening 30 seconds of the round, he clinched and recovered. Even when he got buzzed, Pavlik still had his legs and his wits about him. There was no point in the 12th where the fight could have legitimately been stopped unless you're saying he shouldn't have been allowed to come out for the 12th round because of the punishment he had taken throughout the fight, something else I would disagree with.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXVuq...2E7B2C&index=8At what point of round 12 should he have been stopped?
In those first 30 seconds if that had been Roy and at 175 and Pavlik had taken that kind of a beating for the previous 11 rounds ;) Do you think Pavlik would have survived an entire fight with that defensive shell he goes into, he almost only throws when someone backs off of him and gives him room when he is smothered he covers up and goes on the defensive. Do you think he could have beaten Roy Jones Jr fighting him like that? Roy would have torn him up and fought him when he wanted to. What Roy would have done was probably try to circle out of range of Pavliks right hands and then jump in with a quick shot causing Kelly to go into that shell again and then unload on him. He wouldnt have to worry about resting against the ropes because he could do it in the center of the ring :)
Jones doesn't have the defense of Hopkins and at this age I don't think he has the legs to keep away from Pavlik all fight long. The best fighter he has beaten since his so called comeback is Anthony Handshaw. Regardless of what Taeth might say, Calzaghe took him to school in a major way and could have stopped him if he pressed. There is no way of knowing how Jones would respond to a fighter like Pavlik because we've yet to see him fight one.
Could Jones stop Pavlik? Sure, anyone can stopped in boxing and the outcome isn't necessarily a foregone conclusion. However, I don't think he would. Jones is not a huge puncher anymore, he hit Lacy at will all night long and while he hurt him (badly on occasion), he never even dropped him; I don't think he would stop Pavlik unless it was in the same fashion as the Lacy fight, the corner throwing in the towel (about 4 rounds too late in the Lacy fight, but I digress yet again). I think Jones would back into the ropes, like he always does regardless of whether he has to or not, and Pavlik would make him pay.
Re: the jones of today vs pavlik
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Originally Posted by
JonesJrMayweather
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Originally Posted by
Spicoli
Pavlik too long,straight and strong for Roy at 40.Come on?His one deminsion would suit him well and Jones could not hang on the ropes.I dont think Roy would be able to walk to Pavlik as Hopkins did.
Pavlik's power was gone at 168. At 174 he'd really be done, roy would stop him late. Pavlik made Bhop's hands look like meldrick taylor.. Roy would look like E.Honda from street fighter.
He shines but only in glimpse's man.I really think their is some reinvention and star struckness going on as it relates to todays Jones jr.We may be talking Pavlik here...and lets be honest that fight is not happening.But it was far more than just hand speed that saw Hopkins walk to and whip Pavlik.Intangibles that I believe Roy no longer has readily available.I think Jones is over his head right now with top ranked high calibur guys in general.If he gets by Green,I hope he goes out on top.
He is shining with spurts of past speed against stationary non offensive minded catchers in Sheika and Lacy.The latter it can be argued had lost 5 of his last 6 fights.His last big fight vs a guy with volume and pressure saw him shut down & beat up with frankly his heart keeping him upright.You could see the hesitation and him second guessing on rigid legs.When Jones is reduced to pounding his chin and chest boasting of being able to take a good shot......that says it all.And last I checked Calzaghe is not exactly a renowned puncher.
Re: the jones of today vs pavlik
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Originally Posted by
Spicoli
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Originally Posted by
JonesJrMayweather
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Originally Posted by
Spicoli
Pavlik too long,straight and strong for Roy at 40.Come on?His one deminsion would suit him well and Jones could not hang on the ropes.I dont think Roy would be able to walk to Pavlik as Hopkins did.
Pavlik's power was gone at 168. At 174 he'd really be done, roy would stop him late. Pavlik made Bhop's hands look like meldrick taylor.. Roy would look like E.Honda from street fighter.
He shines but only in glimpse's man.I really think their is some reinvention and star struckness going on as it relates to
todays Jones jr.We may be talking Pavlik here...and lets be honest that fight is not happening.But it was far more than just hand speed that saw Hopkins walk to and whip Pavlik.Intangibles that I believe Roy no longer has readily available.I think Jones is over his head right now with top ranked high calibur guys in general.If he gets by Green,I hope he goes out on top.
He is shining with spurts of past speed against stationary non offensive minded catchers in Sheika and Lacy.The latter it can be argued had lost 5 of his last 6 fights.His last big fight vs a guy with volume and pressure saw him shut down & beat up with frankly his heart keeping him upright.You could see the hesitation and him second guessing on rigid legs.When Jones is reduced to pounding his chin and chest boasting of being able to take a good shot......that says it all.And last I checked Calzaghe is not exactly a renowned puncher.
No its not being star struck...not from me at least...but pavlik hasn't really done anything to impress me to the point of where i can outright say he'd beat even a 40 yr old jones who is still very aware of his ability limitations. And roy was one of the best ring generals in history his mind is still there. He still is laps ahead of anybody pavliks faced in terms of speed...and Roy would be the biggest man pavlik will have faced in regards to fighting at the higher weights longer. That makes roy the biggest and harder puncher.
Pavlik right now to me beat a very good but overrated jermain taylor is only a step above lacy and thats because he does have a jab...i will go out on a limb and say jermain taylor won't win one fight in the SMW tournament.
Re: the jones of today vs pavlik
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Originally Posted by
JonesJrMayweather
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Originally Posted by
Spicoli
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Originally Posted by
JonesJrMayweather
Pavlik's power was gone at 168. At 174 he'd really be done, roy would stop him late. Pavlik made Bhop's hands look like meldrick taylor.. Roy would look like E.Honda from street fighter.
He shines but only in glimpse's man.I really think their is some reinvention and star struckness going on as it relates to
todays Jones jr.We may be talking Pavlik here...and lets be honest that fight is not happening.But it was far more than just hand speed that saw Hopkins walk to and whip Pavlik.Intangibles that I believe Roy no longer has readily available.I think Jones is over his head right now with top ranked high calibur guys in general.If he gets by Green,I hope he goes out on top.
He is shining with spurts of past speed against stationary non offensive minded catchers in Sheika and Lacy.The latter it can be argued had lost 5 of his last 6 fights.His last big fight vs a guy with volume and pressure saw him shut down & beat up with frankly his heart keeping him upright.You could see the hesitation and him second guessing on rigid legs.When Jones is reduced to pounding his chin and chest boasting of being able to take a good shot......that says it all.And last I checked Calzaghe is not exactly a renowned puncher.
No its not being star struck...not from me at least...but pavlik hasn't really done anything to impress me to the point of where i can outright say he'd beat even a 40 yr old jones who is still very aware of his ability limitations. And roy was one of the best ring generals in history his mind is still there. He still is laps ahead of anybody pavliks faced in terms of speed...and Roy would be the biggest man pavlik will have faced in regards to fighting at the higher weights longer. That makes roy the biggest and harder puncher.
Pavlik right now to me beat a very good but overrated jermain taylor is only a step above lacy and thats because he does have a jab...i will go out on a limb and say jermain taylor won't win one fight in the SMW tournament.
Pavlik has never impressed me either.Not happeneing this one but wtf.Shite,I had him only 1 point up on Taylor in 2nd fight.I dont buy Jones being the harder hitter....two different styles and delivery totally.For me it comes down to Jones being reachable and now predictable....vs any higher calibur guy.His mind may be there but Jones top form was reflex,instinct.This is not "RJ" these days man.He backs into bad spots now, setting mutual traps and I think even a Pavlik finds him with straight volume shots.
