Re: How do Americans feel about the way Native Americans were treated?
I'll post when I have more time if you want to discuss sources.
The point about 'homeland' is the Irish kept their land, hell even the jews got given a created state. What have the indians got? Casinos and high rates of alcoholism? Serious question though, has it ever been considered to give them back more of their land?
Re: How do Americans feel about the way Native Americans were treated?
...they have higher rates of alcoholism because they were the last people's to get alcohol ergo their bodies have not developed to handle it properly. Think of how many alcoholic people there are in the Middle East....very few because alcohol was first made there and those people took it in and adapted to it's effects.
I'm not going to look back 200 years ago and feel bad about shit I had no part in....does anyone feel bad that Sherman burned Atlanta to the ground and starved out plenty of Southerners??? I doubt they do, but that's ok because all Southerners are white slave owners and they probably deserved it....unlike those brave and peaceful indians :rolleyes:
Re: How do Americans feel about the way Native Americans were treated?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Howlin Mad Missy
I'll post when I have more time if you want to discuss sources.
The point about 'homeland' is the Irish kept their land, hell even the jews got given a created state. What have the indians got? Casinos and high rates of alcoholism? Serious question though, has it ever been considered to give them back more of their land?
I'm not saying the Irish ended up worse off than the Indigenous people of North America, that would be ludicrous. I'm only saying that there was a time, albeit a brief one, where they were viewed and treated more harshly by the English than were the Natives. Obviously, attitudes towards the Natives changed rather quickly in the 17th century. However, much of the initial destruction of indigenous life had more to do with sickness and disease than any English hostility (though there was plenty of that as well).
As for your question, in Canada some First Nations people aggressively lobby for the return of their traditional lands. That's not to say they want the entire country back, only that they wish to have control over lands that were never ceeded in treaty or that they want compensation for land and resources that were stolen from them, or access to those resources (ie. special hunting/fishing rights - things that were always promised but never delivered). That's a very generalized statement, obviously, and it is not true in every case.
Re: How do Americans feel about the way Native Americans were treated?
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Originally Posted by
OumaFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
porkypara
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Originally Posted by
Spicoli
Shameful.Kills me when there is such an uproar about immigration today...Illegal.Immagine if they had the guns and we did not.
Sorry if I am being a bit stupid but I am not quiet sure what you mean by that.:p
Can you expand.;D
He's talking about white Americans being upset about illegal immigration these days, they're taking our country away, etc., etc., which I'm sure native Americans do find kind of funny.
I've always thought the whole topic was strangely glossed over, its an ugly ugly history for sure, but slavery and civil rights probably took some of the attention away from it.
Thats what I thought he ment but was ot sure.
Yes it makes me smile,the imigrants trying to keep other imigrants out.:rolleyes:(same as in Oz)
Re: How do Americans feel about the way Native Americans were treated?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CFH
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Howlin Mad Missy
I'll post when I have more time if you want to discuss sources.
The point about 'homeland' is the Irish kept their land, hell even the jews got given a created state. What have the indians got? Casinos and high rates of alcoholism? Serious question though, has it ever been considered to give them back more of their land?
I'm not saying the Irish ended up worse off than the Indigenous people of North America, that would be ludicrous. I'm only saying that there was a time, albeit a brief one, where they were viewed and treated more harshly by the English than were the Natives. Obviously, attitudes towards the Natives changed rather quickly in the 17th century. However, much of the initial destruction of indigenous life had more to do with sickness and disease than any English hostility (though there was plenty of that as well).
As for your question, in Canada some First Nations people aggressively lobby for the return of their traditional lands. That's not to say they want the entire country back, only that they wish to have control over lands that were never ceeded in treaty or that they want compensation for land and resources that were stolen from them, or access to those resources (ie. special hunting/fishing rights - things that were always promised but never delivered). That's a very generalized statement, obviously, and it is not true in every case.
There used to be signs in British shops 30 odd years ago that said NO BLACKS AND NO IRISH.
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Re: How do Americans feel about the way Native Americans were treated?
Re: How do Americans feel about the way Native Americans were treated?
Am I allowed into this thread fella's?
I couldn't see any 'No Irish' sign at the door, so I said I'd just stumble in to have a gawk about the place, right so... :alcoholic:
Re: How do Americans feel about the way Native Americans were treated?
Damn, no Irish and no Blacks.....now those were the days! Just us whites, asians, middle easterners, jews, gypsies, and indigenous peoples....and MAYBE the Scottish only if they wear pants
.....joking of course
Re: How do Americans feel about the way Native Americans were treated?
I feel bad about the way they were treated in the past, they got shafted big time. Arizona has the largest amount of reservations in the US if I'm not mistaken and while some that are by the metro areas (Phoenix, Tucson and to a lesser extent Flagstaff) do relatively well from the casinos, there are plenty by four corners that really struggle with land that is infertile and out of the way. My family donates socks and blankets twice a year to help them out.
There has been a huge rise in violent crime recently in Native communities and it is disheartening, but there has also been a push from the native american church to diminish the violence with efforts to get people involved in productive things such as ceremonies, crafting and construction.
As for the original point, not sure what you are getting at............
Were you looking for someone to say "Hell yeah we kicked their asses?"
Re: How do Americans feel about the way Native Americans were treated?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Oggie
Am I allowed into this thread fella's?
I couldn't see any 'No Irish' sign at the door, so I said I'd just stumble in to have a gawk about the place, right so... :alcoholic:
Everyone knows that 99% of the Irish are illiterate anyways, and the other 1% is so blindingly drunk they can't see let alone read.
Re: How do Americans feel about the way Native Americans were treated?
It all worked out for the best. :peeker:
I feel as bad as I can about something that happened so long before time.
I just read a book that has a chapter about Wounded Knee. Who started it, was the question.
Amazon.com: Unsolved Mysteries of American History: An Eye-Opening Journey through 500 Years of Discoveries, Disappearances, and Baffling Events (9780471283683): Paul Aron: Books
Re: How do Americans feel about the way Native Americans were treated?
I can hardly believe that some think that they are ok today;
Sure, they have a problem with alcohol because they do not have the same hormones as us to digest alcohol but once again, it would blatantly fool to think that the white man didn't take opportunity over it to shove down anything they wanted capitalizing on their crave for alcohol.
When you look down on history, you see how the white man was scornful toward them and how they battered them in any way possible, from the forced conversion to christianity to the land looting and less we forget how some strategy were developed to kill as many wild cows as possible in order to starve some of the tribes.
Sure, we did give them some compensations and some privileges but that is so minor compared to everything that has been done and it appears clear to me that from en environment point of view, they were 1000 times better before the arrival of the white men and neither did they lack of anything at all.
Sure as well, we didn't talk (to answer to Lyle) about what Sherman did to the sudists, which is horrible as well but the topic in course was what we did to the natives, the quasi genocide of a people.
When you look at the casinos and such today that they build, peoples have to realize that it is a very SLIM minority in the reserves that get the real benefices from it. Close to where I live in Quebec (well, 3 hours away, more or less) there is a few of these reserves, I went myself to visit as I was wondering how it looks like.... and i say that all of those who think that it is pink and candy should visit it, I've been horribly shocked about what I've seen, seriously.
Can we repare what have been done? I am not sure. NOt sure at all. Still, it is not a reason to not feel ashamed by what happened, I am not directly responsible for it, my personal ancesters arrived after the so called "massacre" but still, I feel bad for what happened, especially knowing that wouldn't have the white man landed here, everything would be much better.
Re: How do Americans feel about the way Native Americans were treated?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CFH
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Oggie
Am I allowed into this thread fella's?
I couldn't see any 'No Irish' sign at the door, so I said I'd just stumble in to have a gawk about the place, right so... :alcoholic:
Everyone knows that 99% of the Irish are illiterate anyways, and the other 1% is so blindingly drunk they can't see let alone read.
Why yes, that is a top-hat I'm wearing, thanks for asking. :cool:
Re: How do Americans feel about the way Native Americans were treated?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
porkypara
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
Shameful.Kills me when there is such an uproar about immigration today...Illegal.Immagine if they had the guns and we did not.
Sorry if I am being a bit stupid but I am not quiet sure what you mean by that.:p
Can you expand.;D
I can speak fluent Spicoli .
He's drawing a comparison between the illegal immigrants of today and the colonists.
Saying Imagine if we were unarmed now except for just basic implements chilling as we are and immigrants came in armed and started blowing us away with some high tech machinery.
Re: How do Americans feel about the way Native Americans were treated?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Oggie
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CFH
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Oggie
Am I allowed into this thread fella's?
I couldn't see any 'No Irish' sign at the door, so I said I'd just stumble in to have a gawk about the place, right so... :alcoholic:
Everyone knows that 99% of the Irish are illiterate anyways, and the other 1% is so blindingly drunk they can't see let alone read.
Why yes, that
is a top-hat I'm wearing, thanks for asking. :cool:
And a fine top hat it is sir, now bring me some potatoes and whiskey.
Speaking of drunken Irishmen, I'm going to see the Pogues in just over two weeks. I can't wait. They're one of my all-time favorite bands.
