Comparison of Floyd's punching stats to Vitali's punching stats in latest matches

let's get something straight here

vitali's style resembles a chimpanzee swinging his arms wildly about in comparison to floyd's.

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Originally Posted by Lyle

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Originally Posted by JT Rock

News flash Lyle, the division is weak and I dont care how you justify it, Mayweather is a better fighter in all regards. PFP being a standard albeit fantasy measuring stick that fighters are judged by, Wlad isint even in the same convo with Mayweather, PFP Wlads best wins arent on par with Mayweathers. I dont hold the quality of comp against Wlad because its a product of his era and not his fault. You and the rest of your Wlad apologists can try to compare Wlad to Floyd all you want but there is no comparison, none at all WLAD is a heavyweight with undeniable 1 punch KO power. He jabs his way through 1/2 of a fight and refuses to press and annihilate a fighter that has been broken down and beaten 4 rounds prior. He is fragile at best and is protecting a weak chin, he desperately holds within 2ft of his reach and flops around the ring like a fish when pressed in the past... There is no comparison to Mayweather

Vitali is the better fighter and champion he possesses certain intangibles that other great heavyweights have, you never get the sense that Vitali is vulnerable or in trouble, never a look of desperation just a cool relaxed confidence in himself. The only way you ever hear of Vitali getting bet against is because of age and nothing else. Wlads been unraveled and stopped 3x by fighters who were signifigantly less than him, hence no matter what until the day he retires he will always have that label of fragile and chinny and he fights like someone who is protecting those vulnerabilities, nothing wrong with that but in the division he fights in, those arent qualities that people want to see in their Lineal Heavyweight Champion.

I welcome any challenge or debate on who the better brother is, because there is no way in hell Wlad could ever beat Vitali.. Vitali is the best Heavy in the world right now BAR NONE!!!

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What's weak is YOUR BOY shunning real threats to his 0. That's what fucking weak "Oh I'm the greatest of all-time, I'm unbeaten" yeah because he fights guys either outside of their weight classes, past their prime (and he doesn't put them away), he's never unified, and when he is winning a fight he'll coast to the finish line rather than try to either entertain the crowd or stop his opponent.

I'm sorry, but I've had enough of the "the heavyweights are weak" bullshit, I call it bullshit because it is...you can bitch and moan about who Wlad faces all you want to but guess what he's got 1 division to worry about and there aren't all kinds of fighters coming and going through the heavyweight division whereas Floyd could fight anywhere from 140 (perhaps) to 160....yeah I suggest he fight at 160, Duran did it, Leonard did it, Robinson did it, Hearns did it.....I suggest Floyd fight somebody that maybe is a bit bigger than him, that maybe boxes pretty good, that maybe punches pretty hard and why do I request that of him????? Because if he is so fucking sure he's the best then he won't mind proving it.

Meanwhile Wlad and Vitali are nice humble guys, they don't talk shit, they don't act like some wannabe gangster, and they go out and try to prove themselves vs what the heavyweight division has to offer them....they don't have the chance to switch weight classes, they don't have the chance to make "mega fights" with other bonafide super stars....but Floyd does and it is PATHETIC that he hasn't done more

.....end rant

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Pathetic to be rated PFP#1 best fighter in the world for years, comes back and is at #2, sold over a million PPV with JMM and is the #4 all time grossing PPV fighter in the history of the sport... SOOOO your rant says nothing really substantial Lyle:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Hunter

What is more ironic is it is the same people who rip the Klitchkos for being boring and not aggressive who hide in the rest room for a chance to wipe floyd's a$$.

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Is that a fact, or just a little ditty you've pulled out of your arsehole?

people looking at punch stats only and not the fight? A majority of Vitali's shots were left jabs and up jabs and little hooks. He hardly looked like a lightweight in there throwing mad combos. 90 percent of the stuff he threw were jabs and off variations of them. And it wasn't even someone the caliber of Marquez. If we are gonna put so much on numbers like that we may as well say Malignaggi threw more then them both so lets rank him above.

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Originally Posted by JazMerkin

I don't think he's a boring fighter, I just feel the quality of his & his brother's opponents (not Chagaev or Arreola who I both thought were good fighters) is often not up to standard.

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Well, unfortunately for the Klitchskos, when they try doing what Floyd does and bring fighters up from the lower weights as opponents, their proposed opponents shiit them selves and run a mile;D

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Originally Posted by Lyle

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Originally Posted by JT Rock

News flash Lyle, the division is weak and I dont care how you justify it, Mayweather is a better fighter in all regards. PFP being a standard albeit fantasy measuring stick that fighters are judged by, Wlad isint even in the same convo with Mayweather, PFP Wlads best wins arent on par with Mayweathers. I dont hold the quality of comp against Wlad because its a product of his era and not his fault. You and the rest of your Wlad apologists can try to compare Wlad to Floyd all you want but there is no comparison, none at all WLAD is a heavyweight with undeniable 1 punch KO power. He jabs his way through 1/2 of a fight and refuses to press and annihilate a fighter that has been broken down and beaten 4 rounds prior. He is fragile at best and is protecting a weak chin, he desperately holds within 2ft of his reach and flops around the ring like a fish when pressed in the past... There is no comparison to Mayweather

Vitali is the better fighter and champion he possesses certain intangibles that other great heavyweights have, you never get the sense that Vitali is vulnerable or in trouble, never a look of desperation just a cool relaxed confidence in himself. The only way you ever hear of Vitali getting bet against is because of age and nothing else. Wlads been unraveled and stopped 3x by fighters who were signifigantly less than him, hence no matter what until the day he retires he will always have that label of fragile and chinny and he fights like someone who is protecting those vulnerabilities, nothing wrong with that but in the division he fights in, those arent qualities that people want to see in their Lineal Heavyweight Champion.

I welcome any challenge or debate on who the better brother is, because there is no way in hell Wlad could ever beat Vitali.. Vitali is the best Heavy in the world right now BAR NONE!!!

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What's weak is YOUR BOY shunning real threats to his 0. That's what fucking weak "Oh I'm the greatest of all-time, I'm unbeaten" yeah because he fights guys either outside of their weight classes, past their prime (and he doesn't put them away), he's never unified, and when he is winning a fight he'll coast to the finish line rather than try to either entertain the crowd or stop his opponent.

I'm sorry, but I've had enough of the "the heavyweights are weak" bullshit, I call it bullshit because it is...you can bitch and moan about who Wlad faces all you want to but guess what he's got 1 division to worry about and there aren't all kinds of fighters coming and going through the heavyweight division whereas Floyd could fight anywhere from 140 (perhaps) to 160....yeah I suggest he fight at 160, Duran did it, Leonard did it, Robinson did it, Hearns did it.....I suggest Floyd fight somebody that maybe is a bit bigger than him, that maybe boxes pretty good, that maybe punches pretty hard and why do I request that of him????? Because if he is so fucking sure he's the best then he won't mind proving it.

Meanwhile Wlad and Vitali are nice humble guys, they don't talk shit, they don't act like some wannabe gangster, and they go out and try to prove themselves vs what the heavyweight division has to offer them....they don't have the chance to switch weight classes, they don't have the chance to make "mega fights" with other bonafide super stars....but Floyd does and it is PATHETIC that he hasn't done more

.....end rant

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Leonard started his career at welterweight, and he was way bigger than Floyd. Duran also was a much larger man then Floyd, and I still think FLoyd would still dominate at 160, maybe he will move up in a few years to 154 and 160. He already beat IMO the best 154 pounder when he faced De La Hoya. If Oscar wasn't the best 154 pounder he was right up there.

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Originally Posted by Taeth

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

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Originally Posted by Taeth

Where the fuck is your logic coming from? Mayweather did not weigh 168 when he fought Marquez, what are you smoking? Also Arreola shouldn't be anywhere near 250, Mayweather fought a guy in supreme shape, while Vitali fought a guy who looked like he should be entering training camp, not at the end of it. Mayweather didn't throw as many punches, but you look at body rotation and everything, Mayweather was putting more into his punches more often. Mayweather always throws crisp punches, he doesn't throw a lot of punches but he makes as many punches as possible count. That why he almost connected with as many punches as Vitali while throwing less than half as many.

There are plenty of times where both brothers toy with opponents, and also because of their height and size and lack of athleticism(in comparison to Mayweather) there is no way they can get the same rotation on punches. Thats why Lennox Lewis hit harder than either brother, or Tyson, or Tua. Its because they had the ability to put their whole bodies into punches, while Wlad and especially Vitali pummel opponents and frustrate opponents until they steal the guys will to fight but don't have that spark out power.

Floyd fought a guy 8xbetter than Arreola, a guy with speed, counter punching ability, and heart. Floyd showed better everything except power in comparsion to Vitali.

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Can someone please tell me if there is anything wrong with not throwing many punches if you win the fight? I don't think so. There are different styles in boxing. Right? As a boxing fan, you may prefer to watch some styles in comparison to others, but styles are styles.

I think the point is more that Mayweather doesn't throw many punches in a fight for a welterweight and Vitali throws a lot of punches in a fight for a heavyweight. As Taeth and others have pointed out: it makes sense to an extent given that Mayweather is a pure counterpunching defensive fighter and Vitali is a pure offensive fighter. The reason that it is somewhat astonishing is that generally heavyweights throw less punches than welterweights.

To Bilbo, I don't really think that who Mayweather is fighting makes a difference, but I can't find the data to back that up. What I mean is I don't think Mayweather's punching output would change all that much if he fought a boxer with the same style as Arreola. Mayweather will always be a smart defensive fighter who is averse to risk-taking and doesn't use punch volume to win fights.

I also don't think it really has to do with that Mayweather throws cleaner, crisper punches. Because if you don't throw many punches, you have to make the punches you throw count. If you throw many punches, you don't have to exert the same amount of energy making sure each punch is crisp. Style dictates punch output to an extent.

Also, to Taeth, it is much easier to look athletic when you are shorter than when you are taller. Vitali actually is pretty athletic for a guy who is 6'8 and I've seen many guys who are 5'8 that are very athletic.

Marquez may be 8x better than Arreola, but it is not because he has any more heart. Arreola has a ton of that.

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I didn't say Marquez had more heart, but he had everything else way better than Arreola except power, and he had the same amount of heart as Arreola. Also height definitely plays a factor in coordination, but great athletes even tall guys still have great coordination which both brothers don't have(Wladimir Klitschko is still a really good athlete, but not quite elite, elite)

If you need examples you won't find them in boxing but here are a few :Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, Lebron James, Kobe Bryant, Dwight Howard, Shaquille O'neil, etc. these guys are tall, but have the coordination of guys like Mayweather.

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That's a bit of a stretch...

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Originally Posted by JT Rock

Pathetic to be rated PFP#1 best fighter in the world for years, comes back and is at #2, sold over a million PPV with JMM and is the #4 all time grossing PPV fighter in the history of the sport... SOOOO your rant says nothing really substantial Lyle:rolleyes:

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So if Vitali fought Bernard Hopkins AT HEAVYWEIGHT and whipped the crap out of him you'd give him credit? That's essentially what Floyd did by beating Marquez. Or maybe if Wladimir fought Tomaz Adamek at heavyweight he'd get credit for beating him?

Here's your chance to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you're no hypocrit...all you have to do is say "Yes I would give them full credit"....please be my guest and explain why I should even consider Floyd as a P4P best when he beat up a featherweight who hadn't even proven himself vs the best lightweights much less junior welters or welterweights.

Oh but he's Floyd 'Money' Mayweather, he's brash and irreverant and he's flashy on TV so it doesn't matter who Floyd fights or at what weight he fights anyone, it's only THAT he fights and that he acts like a total jackass, that's why we should bow down before him as the greatest of all time :rolleyes:

I have no problem showering compliments down on Floyd's skill, he's amazing, outstanding, terrific....but does he challenge himself??? Does he try to challenge himself?? Has he set out to prove he is deserving of the title as the Greatest of all time???? NO, NO, and NO. He's just a good fighter....Manny Pacquiao's wins over De la Hoya and Hatton (although they happened after Floyd beat those guys) were much more impressive because Manny moved up in weight and challenged himself vs the best 140 had to offer at the time and a very big albeit weight drained De la Hoya....and he stopped both of them.

See unlike you Floyd "fans" I think Floyd could beat Paul Williams, I would rather Floyd get KTFO, but I think he'd prove a lot fighting and beating the BIGGER guys and the guys who are solid threats, I think Pavlik is HUGE but he's slow and easy to hit, I think Cotto may not have rebounded from the loss to Margarito, I think Shane doesn't have the style ot beat Floyd, but will he fight those guys? Nope, he wouldn't even consider it because he's a punk....he's talented, but he's a little punk

Has Floyd ever been in a FOTY?

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Originally Posted by Kel

Has Floyd ever been in a FOTY?

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floyd's been in plenty of entertaining fights. he brawled with augustus, chavez, ndou and corley and beat them up. his one-sided clinics are enjoyable as well, unlike wlad's relentless jabbing(which aren't clinics anyway)

the baldomir fight was an exception. not one of his better performances

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Originally Posted by sumkalambay

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Originally Posted by Kel

Has Floyd ever been in a FOTY?

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floyd's been in plenty of entertaining fights. he brawled with augustus, chavez, ndou and corley and beat them up. his one-sided clinics are enjoyable as well, unlike wlad's relentless jabbing(which aren't clinics anyway)

the baldomir fight was an exception. not one of his better performances

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Oh ok, so Floyd has "clinics" and Wladimir just jabs people into submission....sure, there isn't any bias there. Wlad has a 84% KO ratio and Floyd has a 63% KO ratio...but that's OK because he's a "definsive genius" and puts on "clinics". But when Wladimir pummels someone it's "relentless jabbing"....I'm just making sure I get this right for future reference.

Floyd Mayweather beat Augustus?!?!?! Golly I'm impressed, the guy has only lost 31 fights out of 69 :rolleyes:....if you like stuff like that then how about Wladimir getting credit for beating Everett Martin???

i don't see how you can consider wlad's performances, boxing clinics. he's not even on Chad Dawson's level in terms of skills, who also happens to be a basic boxer.

i'd have a watch at fights like marlon starling vs. honeyghan, mcgirt vs. brown, toney-barkley to see what a real clinic looks like.

duran showed more skill in the first round of his fight with barkley than wlad has in his entire career.

Well Roberto Duran is one of the Pound for Pound best fighters in the history of the sport, so that doesn't really give a bad impression on Wladimir. Wlad and Vitali are future Hall of Fame fighters....you can hate all you like but it doesn't count against what they have acheived. And the thing with the Klitschko's is that they never call themselves "The Greatest of all time" and therefore we are not forced to compare their accomplishments to the likes of Ali, Louis, et al. FLOYD MAYWEATHER JR. on the other hand, all he does is say "I'm the greatest of all time" therefore were are forced to look at Floyd's career vs the likes of Ray Robinson, Roberto Duran, Willie Pep, Ray Leonard, Tommy Hearns etc

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Originally Posted by sumkalambay

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Originally Posted by Kel

Has Floyd ever been in a FOTY?

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floyd's been in plenty of entertaining fights. he brawled with augustus, chavez, ndou and corley and beat them up. his one-sided clinics are enjoyable as well, unlike wlad's relentless jabbing(which aren't clinics anyway)

the baldomir fight was an exception. not one of his better performances

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Floyd hasn't been in anything close to a FOTY. Be real. It wouldn't be his style. He doesn't throw a lot of punches and he is a defensive fighter.

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

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Originally Posted by sumkalambay

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Originally Posted by Kel

Has Floyd ever been in a FOTY?

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floyd's been in plenty of entertaining fights. he brawled with augustus, chavez, ndou and corley and beat them up. his one-sided clinics are enjoyable as well, unlike wlad's relentless jabbing(which aren't clinics anyway)

the baldomir fight was an exception. not one of his better performances

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Floyd hasn't been in anything close to a FOTY. Be real. It wouldn't be his style. He doesn't throw a lot of punches and he is a defensive fighter.

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Based on the numbers Lyle its you and a select few who believe your mayweather jibberish. The facts are the facts the numbers dont lie.

Tomaz Adamek is no where near the level of JMM so you can put that argument aside.

Dont come at me about Vitali I think he is a superb fighter and great champion and am a huge fan of his. Its Wlad I could care less about.

Yes I would have gave Wlad credit if Hopkins moved up and made the fight a few years ago like he was going to against Maskaev.