Bute Now Ranked #1 in the World

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by skel1983

Berrio is the only one i can think of that Bute has beat.

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He's beaten Kabary Salem the man who dropepd Joe Calzaghe heavily, Lucian Bute is the only one to have ever stopped him. Sakio Bika a fighter who gave Joe Calzaghe all he could handle.

Lucian Bute also beat Sakio Bika easier than anyone else has. Lolenga Mock a fighter who dropped David Haye at Cruiserweight, Donny McCrary, Dingaan Thobela, Alejandro Berrio, William Joppy, Librado Andrade x2, Fulgencio Zuniga.

He's beaten some solid opposition, not the greatest but thats not a bad list at all. Im not saying he deserves the number 1 spot, but he has some underrated wins.

As for Bilbo hold on a minute, wern't you the one agreeing with me before that Lucian Bute did indeed beat the Librado Andrade legitmately ?

This was posted by you Bilbo, i can't find your other comments. But i know you agreed with me, i think its just because people are jumping on the Lucian Bute bandwagon, like with Nonito Donaire that you don't like that fighters get overrated so quickly. But people like me have known about Lucian Bute for ages, i can show you a thread from ages ago before the Alejandro Berrio fight.

Bilbo

I agree with you pretty much Ice. It would have been a robbery just to wave Bute off and call of the fight after he had it completely in the bag like that.

Andrade left his assualt too late imo. He should have got busy earlier and as for the long count, I guess if Andrade had been in the nuetral corner where he was supposed to be the ref wouldn't have sent him back there.

It may have been a bit pedantic from the ref but you can clearly see how when he's giving Bute the count he catches sight of Andrade in his peripheral vision and tells him to go back.

It may have been over the top but if he thought Andrade was making his way to the center of the ring he had to stop him.

And it's easy for us to judge but in the heat of the moment it all happens so fast and the ref isn't a machine incapable of making mistakes.

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Yep and I still agree with you regarding Bute winning the fight. I have no problem that he won that fight.

It still doesn't take away the fact that he was within seconds of being knocked out and was completely saved by the bell however. That's why he had to rematch Andrade, because he came so close to being sparked unconcious the first time around!

It's insane to have a guy rated at number 1, who was virtually ko'd by a guy who the previous number 1 dominated for 12 rounds with ease.

Yes he won the rematch impressively but when has Carl Froch, for all his limitations ever looked as bad as Bute did in that 12th round?

Wins over Jermain Taylor, Andre Dirrell and Jean Pascal eclipse any win in Lucian Bute's career.

I find it somewhat laughable that you are trying to big up his wins over Kabery Salem and Sakio Bika when you would criticise Calzaghe for even fighting such soft opposition.

Sure he didn't get floored by Salem like Calzaghe did, but Calzaghe was never left floundering in the corner at the end of the 12th round of a fight, completely out on his feet and only saved by an extra long count was he? ;)

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It isn't as crazy as you make it sound. How many top ten smw's has Ward or Kessler beat? 1 each. How many top ten smw's has Bute beat? 2.

Bute won all ten rounds before losing the last two rounds and then given the doubt surrounding the win, he took a rematch with Andrade, and knocked him out, completely sparked him, something the #1 guy couldn't do.

I agree with Froch's wins, his resume is probably better than Bute's at this point, the only thing going against Froch is that his competition up until the Taylor fight was abysmal.

You didn't respond to my post earlier regarding Bute's best wins being better than Kessler's or at least as good.

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Originally Posted by hattonthehammer

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by hattonthehammer

Never

Dirrell beats ward if they ever fight...froch would just own the pair of them!

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I don't think so Carl Froch was hurt by Andre Dirrell, Jermain Taylor. Both only noted as modest punchers, Lucian Bute hits much harder and would lay Carl Froch out, his defense is absolute garbage.

Carl Froch in his last 3 fights has been lucky, he just about won vs Jean Pascal. Scored a miracle come from behind KO against a fighter thats like Zab Judah, he can fight well for 1 half of a fight.

Then tires late on and always has, he even got tired late in the slowest paced Middleweight fight in history vs Bernard Hopkins. And was gifted a decision against Andre Dirrell that he certainly lost, i have no idea why your so high on Carl Froch. Im English but lets just face facts, he will lose in the very near future.

He reminds me of Junior Witter, always calling out Joe Calzaghe despite hardly doing shit. I admit he's achieved more but its no different IMO.

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Joe calzaghe was hurt by sharmba mitchell..dawson was hurt by adamek

Dont mean they still arent great fighters. Ive seen more than enough of bute to suggest he`s a poor mans abraham and would get laid out the second he got in with quality opposition

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Tomasz Adamek is a very big puncher, and managed to move up two weightclasses and stop a Heavyweight. The difference is that those 2 fighters you mentioned aka Chad Dawson, Joe Calzaghe, can adapt to situations. Because of how good they are.

What can Carl Froch do ? he has no defense, no boxing skills. And his punch technique at times is amateurish.

As for Lucian Bute being a poor mans Arthur Abraham ? what the hell ? there as about as different as you could get. I think a better comparison would be that Lucian Bute is similar to Joe Calzaghe, although not quite as good. But he does have more power than Joe Calzaghe.

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by ICB

He's beaten Kabary Salem the man who dropepd Joe Calzaghe heavily, Lucian Bute is the only one to have ever stopped him. Sakio Bika a fighter who gave Joe Calzaghe all he could handle.

Lucian Bute also beat Sakio Bika easier than anyone else has. Lolenga Mock a fighter who dropped David Haye at Cruiserweight, Donny McCrary, Dingaan Thobela, Alejandro Berrio, William Joppy, Librado Andrade x2, Fulgencio Zuniga.

He's beaten some solid opposition, not the greatest but thats not a bad list at all. Im not saying he deserves the number 1 spot, but he has some underrated wins.

As for Bilbo hold on a minute, wern't you the one agreeing with me before that Lucian Bute did indeed beat the Librado Andrade legitmately ?

This was posted by you Bilbo, i can't find your other comments. But i know you agreed with me, i think its just because people are jumping on the Lucian Bute bandwagon, like with Nonito Donaire that you don't like that fighters get overrated so quickly. But people like me have known about Lucian Bute for ages, i can show you a thread from ages ago before the Alejandro Berrio fight.

Bilbo

I agree with you pretty much Ice. It would have been a robbery just to wave Bute off and call of the fight after he had it completely in the bag like that.

Andrade left his assualt too late imo. He should have got busy earlier and as for the long count, I guess if Andrade had been in the nuetral corner where he was supposed to be the ref wouldn't have sent him back there.

It may have been a bit pedantic from the ref but you can clearly see how when he's giving Bute the count he catches sight of Andrade in his peripheral vision and tells him to go back.

It may have been over the top but if he thought Andrade was making his way to the center of the ring he had to stop him.

And it's easy for us to judge but in the heat of the moment it all happens so fast and the ref isn't a machine incapable of making mistakes.

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Yep and I still agree with you regarding Bute winning the fight. I have no problem that he won that fight.

It still doesn't take away the fact that he was within seconds of being knocked out and was completely saved by the bell however. That's why he had to rematch Andrade, because he came so close to being sparked unconcious the first time around!

It's insane to have a guy rated at number 1, who was virtually ko'd by a guy who the previous number 1 dominated for 12 rounds with ease.

Yes he won the rematch impressively but when has Carl Froch, for all his limitations ever looked as bad as Bute did in that 12th round?

Wins over Jermain Taylor, Andre Dirrell and Jean Pascal eclipse any win in Lucian Bute's career.

I find it somewhat laughable that you are trying to big up his wins over Kabery Salem and Sakio Bika when you would criticise Calzaghe for even fighting such soft opposition.

Sure he didn't get floored by Salem like Calzaghe did, but Calzaghe was never left floundering in the corner at the end of the 12th round of a fight, completely out on his feet and only saved by an extra long count was he? ;)

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It isn't as crazy as you make it sound. How many top ten smw's has Ward or Kessler beat? 1 each. How many top ten smw's has Bute beat? 2.

Bute won all ten rounds before losing the last two rounds and then given the doubt surrounding the win, he took a rematch with Andrade, and knocked him out, completely sparked him, something the #1 guy couldn't do.

I agree with Froch's wins, his resume is probably better than Bute's at this point, the only thing going against Froch is that his competition up until the Taylor fight was abysmal.

You didn't respond to my post earlier regarding Bute's best wins being better than Kessler's or at least as good.

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Bute and Kessler have both beat more than 2 and 1 top ten fighers.

Bute

Bika
Berrio
Andrade


Kessler

Andrade
Beyer
Mundine
Siaca

Ward beat the number 1 so thats why he now is the number 1 imo.

an

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by skel1983

Berrio is the only one i can think of that Bute has beat.

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He's beaten Kabary Salem the man who dropepd Joe Calzaghe heavily, Lucian Bute is the only one to have ever stopped him. Sakio Bika a fighter who gave Joe Calzaghe all he could handle.

Lucian Bute also beat Sakio Bika easier than anyone else has. Lolenga Mock a fighter who dropped David Haye at Cruiserweight, Donny McCrary, Dingaan Thobela, Alejandro Berrio, William Joppy, Librado Andrade x2, Fulgencio Zuniga.

He's beaten some solid opposition, not the greatest but thats not a bad list at all. Im not saying he deserves the number 1 spot, but he has some underrated wins.

As for Bilbo hold on a minute, wern't you the one agreeing with me before that Lucian Bute did indeed beat the Librado Andrade legitmately ?

This was posted by you Bilbo, i can't find your other comments. But i know you agreed with me, i think its just because people are jumping on the Lucian Bute bandwagon, like with Nonito Donaire that you don't like that fighters get overrated so quickly. But people like me have known about Lucian Bute for ages, i can show you a thread from ages ago before the Alejandro Berrio fight.

Bilbo

I agree with you pretty much Ice. It would have been a robbery just to wave Bute off and call of the fight after he had it completely in the bag like that.

Andrade left his assualt too late imo. He should have got busy earlier and as for the long count, I guess if Andrade had been in the nuetral corner where he was supposed to be the ref wouldn't have sent him back there.

It may have been a bit pedantic from the ref but you can clearly see how when he's giving Bute the count he catches sight of Andrade in his peripheral vision and tells him to go back.

It may have been over the top but if he thought Andrade was making his way to the center of the ring he had to stop him.

And it's easy for us to judge but in the heat of the moment it all happens so fast and the ref isn't a machine incapable of making mistakes.

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Yep and I still agree with you regarding Bute winning the fight. I have no problem that he won that fight.

It still doesn't take away the fact that he was within seconds of being knocked out and was completely saved by the bell however. That's why he had to rematch Andrade, because he came so close to being sparked unconcious the first time around!

It's insane to have a guy rated at number 1, who was virtually ko'd by a guy who the previous number 1 dominated for 12 rounds with ease.

Yes he won the rematch impressively but when has Carl Froch, for all his limitations ever looked as bad as Bute did in that 12th round?

Wins over Jermain Taylor, Andre Dirrell and Jean Pascal eclipse any win in Lucian Bute's career.

I find it somewhat laughable that you are trying to big up his wins over Kabery Salem and Sakio Bika when you would criticise Calzaghe for even fighting such soft opposition.

Sure he didn't get floored by Salem like Calzaghe did, but Calzaghe was never left floundering in the corner at the end of the 12th round of a fight, completely out on his feet and only saved by an extra long count was he? ;)

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Well Bilbo the difference is Lucian Bute, was fighting those two fighters you mentioned. When he was an upcoming fighter, unlike Joe Calzaghe who fought those two fighters at the twilight of his career.

I never said Lucian Bute deserves to be number 1, i just think you underrate him somewhat. He does have some underrated wins, i agree maybe some people are jumping on the bandwagon too much.

But as i've said to you a few times. I've liked Lucian Bute for quite awhile now, so i don't over estimate his ability.

As for your last comment, well Joe Calzaghe was out on his feet against Chris Eubank in the final seconds. And had the fight have been 20 more seconds or so, i think Joe Calzaghe may have gone down but whatever, thats a debate for another day.

The Ring used to be the only reliable ranking system. But in the last few years they have been ranking more and more similar to the belt organizations. Too many times has the number 1 guy lost his ranking by a 3rd, 4th, and 5th ranked guy who beat a lesser opponent. Its not even arguable to give Bute the number 1 spot by beating a guy of much lesser ranking than himself. And of course they don't explain their reasons for doing so. But its a magazine and so its just opinionated and not necessary to take seriously. I lost respect for that magazine years ago.

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Originally Posted by skel1983

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

Yep and I still agree with you regarding Bute winning the fight. I have no problem that he won that fight.

It still doesn't take away the fact that he was within seconds of being knocked out and was completely saved by the bell however. That's why he had to rematch Andrade, because he came so close to being sparked unconcious the first time around!

It's insane to have a guy rated at number 1, who was virtually ko'd by a guy who the previous number 1 dominated for 12 rounds with ease.

Yes he won the rematch impressively but when has Carl Froch, for all his limitations ever looked as bad as Bute did in that 12th round?

Wins over Jermain Taylor, Andre Dirrell and Jean Pascal eclipse any win in Lucian Bute's career.

I find it somewhat laughable that you are trying to big up his wins over Kabery Salem and Sakio Bika when you would criticise Calzaghe for even fighting such soft opposition.

Sure he didn't get floored by Salem like Calzaghe did, but Calzaghe was never left floundering in the corner at the end of the 12th round of a fight, completely out on his feet and only saved by an extra long count was he? ;)

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It isn't as crazy as you make it sound. How many top ten smw's has Ward or Kessler beat? 1 each. How many top ten smw's has Bute beat? 2.

Bute won all ten rounds before losing the last two rounds and then given the doubt surrounding the win, he took a rematch with Andrade, and knocked him out, completely sparked him, something the #1 guy couldn't do.

I agree with Froch's wins, his resume is probably better than Bute's at this point, the only thing going against Froch is that his competition up until the Taylor fight was abysmal.

You didn't respond to my post earlier regarding Bute's best wins being better than Kessler's or at least as good.

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Bute and Kessler have both beat more than 2 and 1 top ten fighers.

Bute

Bika
Berrio
Andrade


Kessler

Andrade
Beyer
Mundine
Siaca

Ward beat the number 1 so thats why he now is the number 1 imo.

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Fair enough. What I meant was of current top ten super middleweights or top ten super middleweights of the last two years, Bute has wins over two and Kessler has wins over one. Kessler's position as number one never sat well with me because he lost his last major fight and only had the number one position because he lost it to a great in Calzaghe. When you look closer at his record, however, Kessler's resume isn't any better, and probably worse, than Bute's.

My answer to this is no...... Not that Froch is the truth, but beating Andrade doesn't mean No 1. atall, Bute had the chance to fight Froch before the super six got organised and he didn't want it..... He could have beaten him and certainly had a shout at No 1.

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Originally Posted by themacmagician

My answer to this is no...... Not that Froch is the truth, but beating Andrade doesn't mean No 1. atall, Bute had the chance to fight Froch before the super six got organised and he didn't want it..... He could have beaten him and certainly had a shout at No 1.

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The fight with Andrade was already programmed before they did announce the tournament, hence why Lucian couldn't compete. Now they talk a fight with Pavlik which, would he win, would cement his reputation and his "shining" in the US. As the tournament is good for at least another year, expect Bute, once the fight with Pavlik is over, to step in against Froch, especially as he (Froch) did beat another popular boxer in Quebec which is Jean Pascal. That is a 22000 seaters sold within an hour here, believe me. I wouldn't be surprised if Bute would then fight Jean Pascal in Quebec too as it would be HUGE over here, of course, if both of them win in the meantime.

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

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Originally Posted by skel1983

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

It isn't as crazy as you make it sound. How many top ten smw's has Ward or Kessler beat? 1 each. How many top ten smw's has Bute beat? 2.

Bute won all ten rounds before losing the last two rounds and then given the doubt surrounding the win, he took a rematch with Andrade, and knocked him out, completely sparked him, something the #1 guy couldn't do.

I agree with Froch's wins, his resume is probably better than Bute's at this point, the only thing going against Froch is that his competition up until the Taylor fight was abysmal.

You didn't respond to my post earlier regarding Bute's best wins being better than Kessler's or at least as good.

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Bute and Kessler have both beat more than 2 and 1 top ten fighers.

Bute

Bika
Berrio
Andrade


Kessler

Andrade
Beyer
Mundine
Siaca

Ward beat the number 1 so thats why he now is the number 1 imo.

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Fair enough. What I meant was of current top ten super middleweights or top ten super middleweights of the last two years, Bute has wins over two and Kessler has wins over one. Kessler's position as number one never sat well with me because he lost his last major fight and only had the number one position because he lost it to a great in Calzaghe. When you look closer at his record, however, Kessler's resume isn't any better, and probably worse, than Bute's.

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Sorry but that is ridiculous. Guys like Mundine, Beyer and Andrade were top 10, in fact top 3 or 4 but Kessler beat them all hence them not being in the top 10.

Bute has beaten Andrade, and that's it.

Bika, Joppy, Berrio etc are all behind wins over Mundine, Beyer, Dirrell, Pascal and Taylor.

Bute should be number three behind Ward at one, then Froch.

It's not even a debate in my mind. The only way one can make a case for Bute is if they go on pure subjectivity and say they felt Froch lost to Dirrell, and that Bute is better than Froch.

Ratings should be based on results and acomplishments not predictions and guesses.

As it stands, 1. Ward 2. Froch 3. Bute