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If oscar or anybody else could have beat floyd they would have, second, third, fourth fight wouldn't have made any difference. Maybe if oscar kept the same trainer for longer than a week he could have come up with something different, but i doubt better. Oscar didn't jab, block, hook, or flat out win because floyd was better than him it's that simple. All the i got tired and any other excuse is just that.
yea the Pac fans been doing enough of that on every other threadQuote:
Originally Posted by Howlin Mad Missy
No. Floyd beats Oscar at any weight class.
dude the question is if a prime DLH could have beaten Mayweather, and you can't honestly say that Floyd beat the DLH at his best, at 147 and in his prime the fight would have been completely differentQuote:
Originally Posted by Mar
over throwing the jab ? does such a thing exist ? the more oscar uses his jab the better, he was more succesful against floyd when he used it and it seemed to offset floyds rythem, according to roach oscar had an injury in his shoulder which is why he stopped using the jabQuote:
Originally Posted by TaethHow was the 2000 version of Oscar any better than he was against Mayweather? He only had better speed, he had no right hand, he didn't have as good of defensive skills, and he over threw his jab which a fast guy would eventually counter over and over again. Also when he would get tired late like he always does and did, he was naturally smaller back then and easier to hurt than later on.Quote:
Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN
Mosley would be a better fight, but he still doesn't have the boxing skills to beat Mayweather, he had already started to look different from the dominant, brilliant lightweight he was, the combinations weren't as natural or thrown as often, his jab has never been that good, and he would load up on punches Floyd would see coming from a mile away. It would be close just because MOsley is so strong and so fast, but Floyd would win a close fight against Shane if those two versions of them fought. Shane is a much bigger guy with the same speed and much more strength, but he doesn't have the boxing skills.
Robinson was just so physically dominant, and he was adept at fighting on the outside, I doubt he would catch Floyd cleanly very often, but he would have won because he would have kept Floyd on the defensive all night much more effectively than Oscar.
Leonard: I think its a toss up, but Leonard's size advantage and adept ability to fight on the outside would have made it very tough for Floyd. Their similar speed would offset that advantage for either guy, but I think Leonard is the more offensive guy so more often than not the more active guy gets the nod. I bet Floyd would land more punches if they fought though.
and naturally smaller ? he was struggling to make weight around the time of the trinidad fight onwards and should have probably already moved up to 154 by then, he was still the same height obviously so i would love to know how he was smalled back then .....
and when has oscar been hurt ? he was caught cold a few times early in his career but barley even wobbled at 147 or 154.... and unlike floyd he fought some of the biggest punchers and best fighters around at the time ...
All i can add to this is Oscar fought Chavez, Whitaker, Quartey, Trinidad and Mosley all within 3 years. I don't see that level of competition on PBF's resume at 147lb.
My pointless post in a pointless thread.
"YES" Oscar could have beaten.
Baldomir was the lineal champ though ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN
Watch Oscar against Mosley his jab wasn't that effective because he was trying to throw 2 or 3 at a time and that slows you're forward progress which you can't do against a really fast fighter. Oscar was smaller when he fought at 154 against Mosley and the rest simply because he hadn't settled into the weight as fully as when he came back down from Middleweight when he became basically as big as a 154 pounder can get.Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmanhattonover throwing the jab ? does such a thing exist ? the more oscar uses his jab the better, he was more succesful against floyd when he used it and it seemed to offset floyds rythem, according to roach oscar had an injury in his shoulder which is why he stopped using the jabQuote:
Originally Posted by TaethHow was the 2000 version of Oscar any better than he was against Mayweather? He only had better speed, he had no right hand, he didn't have as good of defensive skills, and he over threw his jab which a fast guy would eventually counter over and over again. Also when he would get tired late like he always does and did, he was naturally smaller back then and easier to hurt than later on.Quote:
Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN
Mosley would be a better fight, but he still doesn't have the boxing skills to beat Mayweather, he had already started to look different from the dominant, brilliant lightweight he was, the combinations weren't as natural or thrown as often, his jab has never been that good, and he would load up on punches Floyd would see coming from a mile away. It would be close just because MOsley is so strong and so fast, but Floyd would win a close fight against Shane if those two versions of them fought. Shane is a much bigger guy with the same speed and much more strength, but he doesn't have the boxing skills.
Robinson was just so physically dominant, and he was adept at fighting on the outside, I doubt he would catch Floyd cleanly very often, but he would have won because he would have kept Floyd on the defensive all night much more effectively than Oscar.
Leonard: I think its a toss up, but Leonard's size advantage and adept ability to fight on the outside would have made it very tough for Floyd. Their similar speed would offset that advantage for either guy, but I think Leonard is the more offensive guy so more often than not the more active guy gets the nod. I bet Floyd would land more punches if they fought though.
and naturally smaller ? he was struggling to make weight around the time of the trinidad fight onwards and should have probably already moved up to 154 by then, he was still the same height obviously so i would love to know how he was smalled back then .....
and when has oscar been hurt ? he was caught cold a few times early in his career but barley even wobbled at 147 or 154.... and unlike floyd he fought some of the biggest punchers and best fighters around at the time ...
The reason ODLH stopped throwing the jab, was because he was getting tagged with right hands over the top. And ODLH was rocked a few times by Floyd Mayweather Jr, so he become more cautious with the jab, which in turn is why Floyd Mayweather Jr took tactical command in the later rounds.
As for prime for prime ? i still think Floyd Mayweather Jr wins, he had a great jab at the lower weightclasses, he was more offensive, had more power, and was even quicker.
If a prime ODLH was totally out jabbed by Ike Quartey, and was totally confused by a on the slide Pernell Whitaker's defensive skills. Then for certain Floyd Mayweather Jr takes it again.
Remember Floyd Mayweather Jr wasn't at his best weight above Welterweight, and ODLH had a huge weight advantage something like 1 stone.
Hey Mattboxingfan...I thought Oscar did enough to win and definitely enough for a draw. No doubt Floyd is a fabulous boxer and great counterpuncher but he didn't do enough to make himself the clear winner.Quote:
Originally Posted by mattboxingfan
Prime Oscar or Prime Mosley kick Floyd's ass quite easily. Even in the early rounds Oscar did some damage with an "old " Oscar jab. An OLD jab, his beautiful stiff jab would cut up Floyd IF he would be in his prime. The old oscar STOPPED throwing the jab...still pissed about this one!!! But I understand, he was much older. During the last 10 seconds of the fight Oscar landed a nice left hook but Floyd took it well since he knew it was coming. The young Oscar would throw a bunch of jabs throughout the whole fight.
Though Floyd is super fast with his hands, he doesn't have the very ackward/unpredictable body movement Whitaker had...he gave Oscar lots of problems.
Quote:
Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN
I should add that he beat Trinidad (though not according to the judges ), beat Mosley on the 2nd fight ( still close though ), went to war with quartey and fought a beautiful 12th round, got passed a hall of famer (Whitaker).
Floyd??? He barely got passed an old Oscar...barely. He beat Hatton who was terrible in that fight ( the guy had no head movement whatsoever!!...even worse with Pacquiao ). Beat a very bloated and slow Marquez ( sure Marquez' fault for taking this lame fight )...need I also remind you of him not showing up at the agreed weight??? And he's the pound for pound best???? Hahahaha
Oscar in his absolute prime was brilliant and is one of my favourite fighters, but Floyd Mayweather has a knack of figuring fights out as they go on and Oscar's biggest fault is that he seemed to have slight stamina issues. To me I think that Oscar would always have had a chance with Mayweather but Floyd would always be favourite for me.
well if you want to go off how the judges SHOULD have scored DLH's fights rather than how they actually did we can add a loss against sturm and a loss against whitaker ... fair ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jman76Quote:
Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN
I should add that he beat Trinidad (though not according to the judges ), beat Mosley on the 2nd fight ( still close though ), went to war with quartey and fought a beautiful 12th round, got passed a hall of famer (Whitaker).
Floyd??? He barely got passed an old Oscar...barely. He beat Hatton who was terrible in that fight ( the guy had no head movement whatsoever!!...even worse with Pacquiao ). Beat a very bloated and slow Marquez ( sure Marquez' fault for taking this lame fight )...need I also remind you of him not showing up at the agreed weight??? And he's the pound for pound best???? Hahahaha
In my opinion, no. Oscar may have been past his prime when they fought, but he was still good. Floyd had to concede everything to Oscar to get this fight made. Oscar's gloves, Oscar's ring and Oscar's weight. If they fought prime for prime it would have been at a weight class Floyd had been active in and Oscar would have been outthunk and outfought.Quote:
Originally Posted by mattboxingfan