You can't slate Haye for fighting Ruiz. Ruiz was the mandatory to Valuev, took step aside money for Haye-Valuev and a guarantee to face the winner.
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You can't slate Haye for fighting Ruiz. Ruiz was the mandatory to Valuev, took step aside money for Haye-Valuev and a guarantee to face the winner.
I never did, I talked about his double back off from the K brothers and how he didn't deliver up to his words in the HW till now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
I was replying to some earlier posters.Quote:
Originally Posted by NamelessI never did, I talked about his double back off from the K brothers and how he didn't deliver up to his words in the HW till now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Haye backed off from the Klit's because first time he wasn't getting paid then second time got offered a better deal by Valuev's people. It's a business. He now holds a stronger hand to deal with the Klits ;)
There is a lot of hypocrisy coming from Haye fans on here. Wlad always plays it too safe, yet when Haye did same against Valuev it is good thinking, smart game plan.
Wlad takes to many easy fights and doesnt test himself, but when Haye does it, boxing is a business and thats smart.
Wlad is chinny, and has been KO'd before so Haye can do it. Ahem, Haye aint exactly got a hagler jaw either...
Chagaev and Holyfield fought more convincingly against Valuev, and i daresay bithwould have beaten Barret just as easily. So at most I would say Haye is at about their level which is daylight behind the Klits.
I don't really see much hyprocrisy. Its true that he has to fight Ruiz, so he can't be slated for that. Its not true that he only throws 15 punches a round, that was only against Valuev. And its not true that he hasn't done anything - he was unified cruiser champ.Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle
I'm not a particular fan of Haye by any means but its nice to have a bit of a balanced opinion occasionally.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle
I don't understand what you are getting at? Wlad gets criticized because he plays it safe against guys he outweighs by 40-50 lbs and is around 5-6 inches bigger than them, Haye did what he had to to beat Valuev with the size difference in there.
Haye aint daylights behind Wlad and Vitlai I think he gets beat by them both but I also think he would spark Chambers, Arreola etc etc.
The point im making is that his fans say he played it safe just against Valuev cos he was bigger. Well what is he gonna do against Wlad who is also bigger (altho not to the same degree), far better skilled, punches far harder, and is probably just as strong.Quote:
Originally Posted by skel1983Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle
I don't understand what you are getting at? Wlad gets criticized because he plays it safe against guys he outweighs by 40-50 lbs and is around 5-6 inches bigger than him, Haye did what he had to to beat Valuev with the size difference in there.
Haye aint daylights behind Wlad and Vitlai I think he gets beat by them both but I also think he would spark Chambers, Arreola etc etc.
Then they say he is somehow going to work to the inside and knock Wlad out. Somehow they seem to think He'll beat Wlad because of his weak chin and dont take into account that Haye also has a weak chin and will get hit more often in a fight v Wlad than Klit will.
Hit with more jabs? Sure probably. Outside of that I dont think its all a foregone conclusion. Im interested to see how Hayes mobility changes the game, because as you know, most of Wlads opponents arent mobile. And the ones who were mobile cant punch hard. So, we will just have to see how it plays out when it happens.Quote:
Originally Posted by eagleThe point im making is that his fans say he played it safe just against Valuev cos he was bigger. Well what is he gonna do against Wlad who is also bigger (altho not to the same degree), far better skilled, punches far harder, and is probably just as strong.Quote:
Originally Posted by skel1983Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle
I don't understand what you are getting at? Wlad gets criticized because he plays it safe against guys he outweighs by 40-50 lbs and is around 5-6 inches bigger than him, Haye did what he had to to beat Valuev with the size difference in there.
Haye aint daylights behind Wlad and Vitlai I think he gets beat by them both but I also think he would spark Chambers, Arreola etc etc.
Then they say he is somehow going to work to the inside and knock Wlad out. Somehow they seem to think He'll beat Wlad because of his weak chin and dont take into account that Haye also has a weak chin and will get hit more often in a fight v Wlad than Klit will.
The shot that KO'd Chambers wasnt much more than a jab, and Chambers chin is better than Hayes. I never said it was a foregone conclusion either, boxing never is. Hayes fans tend to make i sound a lot easier to beat Wlad than it is tho. "Move around a bit, get close and hit weak chin hard", is about all i've heard.Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjaspy3Hit with more jabs? Sure probably. Outside of that I dont think its all a foregone conclusion. Im interested to see how Hayes mobility changes the game, because as you know, most of Wlads opponents arent mobile. And the ones who were mobile cant punch hard. So, we will just have to see how it plays out when it happens.Quote:
Originally Posted by eagleThe point im making is that his fans say he played it safe just against Valuev cos he was bigger. Well what is he gonna do against Wlad who is also bigger (altho not to the same degree), far better skilled, punches far harder, and is probably just as strong.Quote:
Originally Posted by skel1983
Then they say he is somehow going to work to the inside and knock Wlad out. Somehow they seem to think He'll beat Wlad because of his weak chin and dont take into account that Haye also has a weak chin and will get hit more often in a fight v Wlad than Klit will.
Canada have Bret "Hitman" Hart haha!!!
I think haye has made some played a great game since he left cruiserweight... Hats off to him.... all he did was talk a lot and now he is world champion.... I think the way he did it makes him a bit of a disgrace though especially with all the nonsense he talked and chasing people up stairs(or wherever that video was filmed:S)... and then he has the chance to fight them both and he backs out twice... It's just not cricket... but to be fair it was some great business work by him... Not sure if steward is correct about the fight never happening.. I think it probably will in the not so far future unless ruiz wins :S
I think steward is right about povetkin .. I dont think povetkin or his managers want him fighting klitschko he's been the number one contender for years now and hasnt made any effort.. I dont really blame him though he hasnt had too many fights yet..
I'm saying he has a chance. Not that he will win. And I'm saying it because he has the combination of being mobile and packing a decent punch... something Wlad's latest opponents havent had. A good chin doesnt do much good if the opponent sits stationary and takes hits contantly while not being able to position himself to return any punches.Quote:
Originally Posted by eagleThe shot that KO'd Chambers wasnt much more than a jab, and Chambers chin is better than Hayes. I never said it was a foregone conclusion either, boxing never is. Hayes fans tend to make i sound a lot easier to beat Wlad than it is tho. "Move around a bit, get close and hit weak chin hard", is about all i've heard.Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjaspy3Hit with more jabs? Sure probably. Outside of that I dont think its all a foregone conclusion. Im interested to see how Hayes mobility changes the game, because as you know, most of Wlads opponents arent mobile. And the ones who were mobile cant punch hard. So, we will just have to see how it plays out when it happens.Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle
I remembered when I first join this site, and it looked like Haye was going to fight Wlad or Vitali, a lot of members were comparing Haye to Holyfield. ;D
You know the connection was that both were undisputed cruiserweight champions going into the heavyweight division.:vd:
I believed that a prime Holyfield would have rocked Wlad and stopped him, and would be in an absolute war with Vitali and had a very good chance of winning a decision. Haye doesn't instill that confidence in me, plus the guy really doesn't have a great beard.
Haye has zero shot. If he was a gay Briton, nobody would even be talking about him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldog
Embarrasing i know. Im still convinced that either klitsch especially vitali would of been a dominant force in 90s heavyweights. Holyfield/Lewis apart i think they could of dealt with the rest of the division pretty swiftly (in a very dull manner)