Fighter's I Believe That Could Of Beaten Floyd Mayweather Jr

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Originally Posted by JazMerkin

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Originally Posted by Snakey

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

Yes, we all know the legendary Tszyu could have beaten Floyd and Pacquiao all on the same night. In fact he was so dangerous guys like Oscar, Floyd, Manny, all ducked him. In fact the great 147 pound class in the 90s with Quartey, DLH, Whitaker, Mosley, all ducked Tszyu by not refusing to drop down to 140 to fight him.

I mean my god, when you beat a Zab Judah and a 40 year old Chavez, no one's going to want to fight you!

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You all laugh about Tszyu beating Zab but you all forget he was meant to be the next big thing in boxing. Also if watch Zab fight after the tszyu fight hes a different fighter, he doesnt want to get hit. Face it Tszyu ended Zabs career, Zab would not be the scared little fighter he is today if Tszyu hadnt of knocked him out that way. So saying "oh Tszyu only beat Zab", well im pretty sure Tszyu beat Zab when he was at his best unlike other guys like Clottey, Cotto and Mayweather and it all took them longer then 2 rounds ;)

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Do you not maybe see the correlation between those two points?

It was a great shot to finish him no doubt, but it was that, we don't call Hasim Rahman an ATG because he got a great shot in on Lewis who I shouldn't even be comparing with Zab.

Zab won the first round as well.

The point is that Tszyu did nothing to give merit to the argument that Pacquaio, Mayweather, Mosley & De La Hoya would have all crumbled in his wake. All of those 4 guys are genuine ATGs. Tszyu just isn't, he was an excellent fighter and a almost certain Hall of Famer, but an all-time great he ain't.

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Mate Rahmans shot on lewis was because of Lewis's stupidity which falls under a lucky shot category. Tszyu timed Zab, he made him move into the direction he wanted him to go. I think thats a very bad comparison to even compare Tszyu with Rahman...really an insult to Tszyu who was a reigning champ for a number of yrs.

Its funny that a guy like Tszyu who fought for a world title in his 10th fight can be discredited like some people do around here. Im not claiming him to be the best ever but come on he was a better technical boxer than a lot of guys going around. You all talk about him like hes Aturo Gatti.

i think its impossible to draw such conclusions without actually seeing the fight, mayweather tends to neutralize all of his foes assets...work rate, speed, power, etc....they just don't look "the same".....to many things would weigh in, how the two fighters react to each other, mentally, physically, and gaame plan......i think maywaether has a shot of competing with anyone since sugar ray robinson, not saying he will win, but its impossible to say that he will simply just be beat....mayweathers an all time great, whether u think hes a dick or not

I think someone who can feint right hands and follow up with a leaping left hook could hurt Floyd. SRR could do this and follow up that leaping left hook with two more, all fast and powerful. SRR had so many options offensively and if Floyd managed to close down that avenue he could revert to those beautiful right hands to the body that he threw around an opponent's guard taking away Floyd's attention from his own upper right side. Eventually, Floyd would adjust and look to counter with right hands to the head and this is where SRR could once again land left hooks. SRR was also great at jabbing while circling to his left, something that opens up angles for right hands to the body when facing an opponent with his lead should raised plus he could fight on the inside. Floyd's "shoulder roll" style was also a much more common way of fighting back in SRR's day so I think he would be the most accustomed to deal with Floyd's awkardness. Tommy's one of my favourite fighters but unless he knocked him out early I don't think he had the stamina nor variation of punches to keep Floyd from adjusting. As great as he was I always remember him jabbing looking to unload that huge right hand or throwing left hooks to the body then head which is fine from the outside but what happens when FLoyd weasles his way inside? But Tommy had that killer instinct and if he was in the same situation Mosley found himself he would've mauled Floyd till he dropped him or the ref stopped the fight. Man Mosley could've done it. It was like watching my clown of a mate on Saturday night somehow managing to get these absolute glamours up to dance with him but he just didn't make a fucking move. Frustrating shit.

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Originally Posted by ICB

Super Featherweight

No one.

Lightweight

Roberto Duran
Pernell Whitaker
Shane Mosley = highly debatable.
ODLH = Would be very close.

Jr Welterweight

No one.

Welterweight

Tommy Hearns
Sugar Ray Leonard
Sugar Ray Robinson

Jr Middleweight

Terry Norris
Wilfredo Benitez

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Good list IMO. The only one I would argue would be Duran. Love Duran, but I think Floyd is a TERRRIBLE matchup for him, as great as he was.

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

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Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN

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Originally Posted by JazMerkin

:rotflmao:

How did I know you'd find a way to get all over Tszyu's balls :rolleyes:

If he can take Mosley's punches, he could take Tszyu's. No way was Tzsyu faster than Shane or more powerful. Oh but wait, he stopped Zab Judah right ;D

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Shane Mosley is 39 in September, inactive for the past 15 months and he almost knocked Floyd out in the 2nd round! Tszyu ate southpaws for breakfast, the Tszyu of 99-2001 would give Floyd hell. Maybe the Mosley of 2000 would too? I'm not saying they would win, Floyd's performance against Mosley was brilliant after being in real trouble early. What i am saying is Tszyu was probably the best fighter i have seen against southpaws.
Also, Zab Judah was the favourite going into that fight too!

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Yes, we all know the legendary Tszyu could have beaten Floyd and Pacquiao all on the same night. In fact he was so dangerous guys like Oscar, Floyd, Manny, all ducked him. In fact the great 147 pound class in the 90s with Quartey, DLH, Whitaker, Mosley, all ducked Tszyu by not refusing to drop down to 140 to fight him.

I mean my god, when you beat a Zab Judah and a 40 year old Chavez, no one's going to want to fight you!

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Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit. It's all conjecture when it comes to who can beat Mayweather and of course none of it can be proved. Tszyu, Duran, Pryor, Chavez, Leonard or Hearns? We will never know if any of them could beat Mayweather. I'm of the belief that Mayweather finds a way to beat them all, he will probably find a way to beat Pacquaio too. I just think Tszyu would have had a good chance of winning, i am not saying he would win. Is that ok with you Stalin?
Oh by the way, Chavez was 2 years younger than Mosley is now when he fought Tszyu.

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Originally Posted by JazMerkin

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Originally Posted by Snakey

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

Yes, we all know the legendary Tszyu could have beaten Floyd and Pacquiao all on the same night. In fact he was so dangerous guys like Oscar, Floyd, Manny, all ducked him. In fact the great 147 pound class in the 90s with Quartey, DLH, Whitaker, Mosley, all ducked Tszyu by not refusing to drop down to 140 to fight him.

I mean my god, when you beat a Zab Judah and a 40 year old Chavez, no one's going to want to fight you!

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You all laugh about Tszyu beating Zab but you all forget he was meant to be the next big thing in boxing. Also if watch Zab fight after the tszyu fight hes a different fighter, he doesnt want to get hit. Face it Tszyu ended Zabs career, Zab would not be the scared little fighter he is today if Tszyu hadnt of knocked him out that way. So saying "oh Tszyu only beat Zab", well im pretty sure Tszyu beat Zab when he was at his best unlike other guys like Clottey, Cotto and Mayweather and it all took them longer then 2 rounds ;)

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Do you not maybe see the correlation between those two points?

It was a great shot to finish him no doubt, but it was that, we don't call Hasim Rahman an ATG because he got a great shot in on Lewis who I shouldn't even be comparing with Zab.

Zab won the first round as well.

The point is that Tszyu did nothing to give merit to the argument that Pacquaio, Mayweather, Mosley & De La Hoya would have all crumbled in his wake. All of those 4 guys are genuine ATGs. Tszyu just isn't, he was an excellent fighter and a almost certain Hall of Famer, but an all-time great he ain't.

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So a fighter who fought almost 50% of his professional career against former or at the time current World Champions, was a World Champion for almost 10 years and a unified World Champion (very rare in boxing these days) is not an ATG? Some people are hard to please. Both DLH and Mosley fought on far to long and we remember their greatness fondly, in reality Mosley's past 7 or 8 years has been very ordinary (8-6 and one NC) and DLH against Pacquaio was just plain emabarrassing, at least Tszyu got out when he did without ever making a fool of himself. Mosley was a shadow of the fighter he once was against Mayweather, he had him in round 2, by round 5 Mosley was done and dusted. As for Zab, he was on top of the world at the time of that fight and give him his due, he was the only one willing to fight Tszyu and actually go through with it, Chavez pleaded with Tszyu for that fight in 1999 and out of respect for him Tszyu agreed. I think Floyd Mayweather is an incredible fighter, his performance against Mosley when he was in real trouble was exceptional, forget the PBF trash talking, Mayweather is one smart fighter.

I have to say i don't think Kostya Tszyu, would of beaten Floyd Mayweather Jr. Because he's too mechanical and too slow, but i think he does get underrated on here.

I've watched his career set online over the past few years, and he was a great fighter make no doubt about it. He had amazing timing, great power. He was able to roll with shots very well, and he never took an easy route.

Kostya Tsyzu's only problem was that he struggled vs swarmer's, because he liked to fight at mid-distance. Where his power and timing were at there most effective.

By the way alot of people forget Kosta Tszyu, was winning the 2nd round vs Zab Judah before he landed the KO shot. So how exactly was it a fluke because they were 1-1 in rounds ? thats a silly thing to say IMO.

Considering Kostya Tszyu is a great fighter with great timing, so obviously a perfectly well timed KO from him, isn't a fluke because he was a master at it throughout his career.

Diosbelys Hurtado
Calvin Grove
Juan La Porte
Roger Mayweather
Livingstone Bramble
Rafael Ruelas
Miguel Angel Gonzalez
Julio Cesar Chavez
Sharma Mitchell x2
Zab Judah
Jesse James Leija
Ben Tackie

That is hardly weak opposition, yes some of those fighters were past there prime. But who else was there at 140 ? he fought the best available opposition, and considering he stayed in one weightclass, where normally the opposition is pretty moderate when a fighter only domiante's one division, i think its quite an impressive list.

Too many fighters fight on to improve their legacy, but then simply blur it. Shame.

Wind back the clock and Floyd would be getting body slammed then beat up and it would have been fair game!

i think you are right i agreed with you

dan sherry at 154 would give mayweather problems

leonard-mayweather would be the ultimate welterweight fight

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Originally Posted by HattonTheHammer

dan sherry at 154 would give mayweather problems

leonard-mayweather would be the ultimate welterweight fight

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Dan Sherry WTF ? :confused:

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Originally Posted by ICB

I have to say i don't think Kostya Tszyu, would of beaten Floyd Mayweather Jr. Because he's too mechanical and too slow, but i think he does get underrated on here.

I've watched his career set online over the past few years, and he was a great fighter make no doubt about it. He had amazing timing, great power. He was able to roll with shots very well, and he never took an easy route.

Kostya Tsyzu's only problem was that he struggled vs swarmer's, because he liked to fight at mid-distance. Where his power and timing were at there most effective.

By the way alot of people forget Kosta Tszyu, was winning the 2nd round vs Zab Judah before he landed the KO shot. So how exactly was it a fluke because they were 1-1 in rounds ? thats a silly thing to say IMO.

Considering Kostya Tszyu is a great fighter with great timing, so obviously a perfectly well timed KO from him, isn't a fluke because he was a master at it throughout his career.

Diosbelys Hurtado
Calvin Grove
Juan La Porte
Roger Mayweather
Livingstone Bramble
Rafael Ruelas
Miguel Angel Gonzalez
Julio Cesar Chavez
Sharma Mitchell x2
Zab Judah
Jesse James Leija
Ben Tackie

That is hardly weak opposition, yes some of those fighters were past there prime. But who else was there at 140 ? he fought the best available opposition, and considering he stayed in one weightclass, where normally the opposition is pretty moderate when a fighter only domiante's one division, i think its quite an impressive list.

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Couldn't have said it better, Tszyu would be a problem for Mayweather until Mayweather worked out how to avoid that right hand and he would. Mayweather is a brilliant ring tactician and i have never seen a fighter work out his opponents so early on in a fight, adapt his style and then go on and dominate. I was influenced by the Mosley right hand in round 2 that leads me to believe Tszyu would have had a chance, however I think Mayweather would have won a UD in the finish.

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Originally Posted by JJson

Coulda, woulda, shoulda, is a backdoor attempt to salvage some grace after being on the other side of the outcome of this fight. One can always make or form these conclusions based on reasons and statistics that are subjectively interpreted. I mean the very idea that this has some kind of cognitive value is ludicrous. Please, lets deal with issues we can measure in real time, and end these infatuations with adoloscent thought processes of "Coulda, woulda, shoulda" :rolleyes:

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I agree completely. There should be a separate board for this kind of thread. a fantasy matchup board maybe?

People are getting carried away with the debate and it robs on them. the next day they are convinced that fighter A will surely beat fighter B from the past.

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Originally Posted by ICB

Super Featherweight

No one.

Lightweight

Roberto Duran
Pernell Whitaker
Shane Mosley = highly debatable.
ODLH = Would be very close.

Jr Welterweight

No one.

Welterweight

Tommy Hearns
Sugar Ray Leonard
Sugar Ray Robinson

Jr Middleweight

Terry Norris
Wilfredo Benitez

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IMO Pryor at JWW beats him for sure....Pryor eats a lot of punches but Floyd would not have the power to KO him and Pryor would make it a nasty nasty fight he breaks Floyd down

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Originally Posted by miron_lang

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Originally Posted by JJson

Coulda, woulda, shoulda, is a backdoor attempt to salvage some grace after being on the other side of the outcome of this fight. One can always make or form these conclusions based on reasons and statistics that are subjectively interpreted. I mean the very idea that this has some kind of cognitive value is ludicrous. Please, lets deal with issues we can measure in real time, and end these infatuations with adoloscent thought processes of "Coulda, woulda, shoulda" :rolleyes:

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I agree completely. There should be a separate board for this kind of thread. a fantasy matchup board maybe?

People are getting carried away with the debate and it robs on them. the next day they are convinced that fighter A will surely beat fighter B from the past.

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With respect and no one asked but I couldn't disagree more.It totally removes historical perspective and discussion for the board and the sport.No one is 100 %saying...and simply could not.... that retired fighter a beats active fighter b but boxing is a continuum of eras and every fighter,with the exception of Holyfield,will retire one day.I think it speaks volumes when a guy is inj atg debates.