Anthony Small on muslim protest shouting to soldiers " Murderers, Child Killers!!!!!"

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Originally Posted by amat

All freedom of speach means is that Anthony Small is not breaking any laws by doing this. There are other freedoms too, like the freedom to judge him as an asshole. He's obviously an idiot and an ass, that much is clear no matter what supposed cause he is fighting for. If someone had a sign that said all blacks go to hell, all doctors go to hell, etc. then yea he would be allowed to have that sign but you also are allowed to label him an idiot. He is obviously, political leanings aside.

Just doing this for attention. Isn't he the guy who took his nickname from Sugar Ray, Jones and Ali? Like Sugar Ray Clay Jones Jr. or something? I'm positive it is and if it is then he shouldn't really be taken seriously here.

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I agree with this, it pretty much sums up what I said in my original post. Freedom of speech is not a one way street, everyone always has different views and at the end of the day, people have to accept this whether they agree with the views or not.

My personal view on the situation is that Anthony Small was being a dick by targeting the wrong people. The soldiers are just doing their job, technically speaking. I'm thinking a lot of them signed up for the military probably believing it would be more like a fitness exercise. :p I'm sure a lot of them come back home eaten by guilt and what not, it is hard to avoid taking innocent lives in war. Of course there are crazed killers in the military too, they couldn't give a flying f*ck who gets in their way.

The governments are the ones who make the decisions though, and for that, the burden of guilt must ultimately rest on their shoulders. This works both ways! Al Qaeda /The Taliban were wrong to do what they did, but the coalition side were wrong to do the exact same thing back in return.

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Originally Posted by amat

What do I disagree with that he said? How about 'All British Soldiers Go To Hell' for starters.

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Where did he say that? I haven't seen it.

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Originally Posted by Oggie

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Originally Posted by amat

All freedom of speach means is that Anthony Small is not breaking any laws by doing this. There are other freedoms too, like the freedom to judge him as an asshole. He's obviously an idiot and an ass, that much is clear no matter what supposed cause he is fighting for. If someone had a sign that said all blacks go to hell, all doctors go to hell, etc. then yea he would be allowed to have that sign but you also are allowed to label him an idiot. He is obviously, political leanings aside.

Just doing this for attention. Isn't he the guy who took his nickname from Sugar Ray, Jones and Ali? Like Sugar Ray Clay Jones Jr. or something? I'm positive it is and if it is then he shouldn't really be taken seriously here.

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I agree with this, it pretty much sums up what I said in my original post. Freedom of speech is not a one way street, everyone always has different views and at the end of the day, people have to accept this whether they agree with the views or not.

My personal view on the situation is that Anthony Small was being a dick by targeting the wrong people. The soldiers are just doing their job, technically speaking. I'm thinking a lot of them signed up for the military probably believing it would be more like a fitness exercise. :p I'm sure a lot of them come back home eaten by guilt and what not, it is hard to avoid taking innocent lives in war. Of course there are crazed killers in the military too, they couldn't give a flying f*ck who gets in their way.

The governments are the ones who make the decisions though, and for that, the burden of guilt must ultimately rest on their shoulders. This works both ways! Al Qaeda /The Taliban were wrong to do what they did, but the coalition side were wrong to do the exact same thing back in return.

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But at what point do Soldiers have to take reponsibility for their actions, regardless of who's giving them their orders. By just doing their job, you mean killing...which i'm sure is quite obvious when you sign up for the military, or at least it is to anybody with a brain cell. So with that in mind, i can't believe that soldiers are totally exempt from any criticism.

I keep hearing that politicians are bent and the government are bent, yet people are volunteering to kill 'for their country' on their behalf. I don't know whether it's blind patriotism, or stupidity or naivety. I genuinely don't know.

Demonstarting during a march is a little insensitive, but at the same time, so is invading another country whilst lauding the soldiers as heroes. But whatever, i guess i'll get told we're right and we're fighting terrorism and the darkies are the bad guys etc etc etc (not by you Oggie btw)

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Originally Posted by ono

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Originally Posted by Oggie

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Originally Posted by amat

All freedom of speach means is that Anthony Small is not breaking any laws by doing this. There are other freedoms too, like the freedom to judge him as an asshole. He's obviously an idiot and an ass, that much is clear no matter what supposed cause he is fighting for. If someone had a sign that said all blacks go to hell, all doctors go to hell, etc. then yea he would be allowed to have that sign but you also are allowed to label him an idiot. He is obviously, political leanings aside.

Just doing this for attention. Isn't he the guy who took his nickname from Sugar Ray, Jones and Ali? Like Sugar Ray Clay Jones Jr. or something? I'm positive it is and if it is then he shouldn't really be taken seriously here.

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I agree with this, it pretty much sums up what I said in my original post. Freedom of speech is not a one way street, everyone always has different views and at the end of the day, people have to accept this whether they agree with the views or not.

My personal view on the situation is that Anthony Small was being a dick by targeting the wrong people. The soldiers are just doing their job, technically speaking. I'm thinking a lot of them signed up for the military probably believing it would be more like a fitness exercise. :p I'm sure a lot of them come back home eaten by guilt and what not, it is hard to avoid taking innocent lives in war. Of course there are crazed killers in the military too, they couldn't give a flying f*ck who gets in their way.

The governments are the ones who make the decisions though, and for that, the burden of guilt must ultimately rest on their shoulders. This works both ways! Al Qaeda /The Taliban were wrong to do what they did, but the coalition side were wrong to do the exact same thing back in return.

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But at what point do Soldiers have to take reponsibility for their actions, regardless of who's giving them their orders. By just doing their job, you mean killing...which i'm sure is quite obvious when you sign up for the military, or at least it is to anybody with a brain cell. So with that in mind, i can't believe that soldiers are totally exempt from any criticism.

I keep hearing that politicians are bent and the government are bent, yet people are volunteering to kill 'for their country' on their behalf. I don't know whether it's blind patriotism, or stupidity or naivety. I genuinely don't know.

Demonstarting during a march is a little insensitive, but at the same time, so is invading another country whilst lauding the soldiers as heroes. But whatever, i guess i'll get told we're right and we're fighting terrorism and the darkies are the bad guys etc etc etc (not by you Oggie btw)

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I can see where you are coming from man, of course soldiers can't be exempt from criticism. If an innocent person is killed, someone had to pull a trigger or whatever... but I would imagine it is a madly tense situation out there, and that no amount of training could prepare you for it. You also have to remember that a lot of these guys are constantly following orders. I guess it is just situational judgment really.

As for people volunteering to go killing, there are always those heavily patriotic people that would 'die for their beloved country!' I simply meant that not everyone that signed up for military service (prior to the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan anyway) ever genuinely expected to be in the situation they were put in.
Most probably expected peacekeeping or heavy exercise, haha. I know a lot of people in the military that only joined for the money and fitness that it brings, but the fact is, if Ireland somehow ever gets invaded (impossible as it seems!), those guys will be asked to kill... and that is not something that I think they never realistically expect. I imagine it could have been the same for a lot of young men that joined the British (and other) military too... though I could be wrong!

I think the governments naturally have to take most of the responsibility though, because without them, the soldiers wouldn't even be there in the first place. This is the case especially when it comes to Iraq, where the invasion there was highly questionable and convenient to say the least. Many thousands of innocents have died there so far, and I'm still yet to hear a genuine reason why. The coalition forces have basically done the exact same thing that was done in their own home countries, except on a much more epic scale. The same thing that we kept hearing was 'pure evil' and 'terrorism at its worst.' They have lost many of their own men and women too... :-\

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Originally Posted by Oggie

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Originally Posted by ono

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Originally Posted by Oggie

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Originally Posted by amat

All freedom of speach means is that Anthony Small is not breaking any laws by doing this. There are other freedoms too, like the freedom to judge him as an asshole. He's obviously an idiot and an ass, that much is clear no matter what supposed cause he is fighting for. If someone had a sign that said all blacks go to hell, all doctors go to hell, etc. then yea he would be allowed to have that sign but you also are allowed to label him an idiot. He is obviously, political leanings aside.

Just doing this for attention. Isn't he the guy who took his nickname from Sugar Ray, Jones and Ali? Like Sugar Ray Clay Jones Jr. or something? I'm positive it is and if it is then he shouldn't really be taken seriously here.

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I agree with this, it pretty much sums up what I said in my original post. Freedom of speech is not a one way street, everyone always has different views and at the end of the day, people have to accept this whether they agree with the views or not.

My personal view on the situation is that Anthony Small was being a dick by targeting the wrong people. The soldiers are just doing their job, technically speaking. I'm thinking a lot of them signed up for the military probably believing it would be more like a fitness exercise. :p I'm sure a lot of them come back home eaten by guilt and what not, it is hard to avoid taking innocent lives in war. Of course there are crazed killers in the military too, they couldn't give a flying f*ck who gets in their way.

The governments are the ones who make the decisions though, and for that, the burden of guilt must ultimately rest on their shoulders. This works both ways! Al Qaeda /The Taliban were wrong to do what they did, but the coalition side were wrong to do the exact same thing back in return.

---

But at what point do Soldiers have to take reponsibility for their actions, regardless of who's giving them their orders. By just doing their job, you mean killing...which i'm sure is quite obvious when you sign up for the military, or at least it is to anybody with a brain cell. So with that in mind, i can't believe that soldiers are totally exempt from any criticism.

I keep hearing that politicians are bent and the government are bent, yet people are volunteering to kill 'for their country' on their behalf. I don't know whether it's blind patriotism, or stupidity or naivety. I genuinely don't know.

Demonstarting during a march is a little insensitive, but at the same time, so is invading another country whilst lauding the soldiers as heroes. But whatever, i guess i'll get told we're right and we're fighting terrorism and the darkies are the bad guys etc etc etc (not by you Oggie btw)

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I can see where you are coming from man, of course soldiers can't be exempt from criticism. If an innocent person is killed, someone had to pull a trigger or whatever... but I would imagine it is a madly tense situation out there, and that no amount of training could prepare you for it. You also have to remember that a lot of these guys are constantly following orders. I guess it is just situational judgment really.

As for people volunteering to go killing, there are always those heavily patriotic people that would 'die for their beloved country!' I simply meant that not everyone that signed up for military service (prior to the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan anyway) ever genuinely expected to be in the situation they were put in.
Most probably expected peacekeeping or heavy exercise, haha. I know a lot of people in the military that only joined for the money and fitness that it brings, but the fact is, if Ireland somehow ever gets invaded (impossible as it seems!), those guys will be asked to kill... and that is not something that I think they never realistically expect. I imagine it could have been the same for a lot of young men that joined the British (and other) military too... though I could be wrong!

I think the governments naturally have to take most of the responsibility though, because without them, the soldiers wouldn't even be there in the first place. This is the case especially when it comes to Iraq, where the invasion there was highly questionable and convenient to say the least. Many thousands of innocents have died there so far, and I'm still yet to hear a genuine reason why. The coalition forces have basically done the exact same thing that was done in their own home countries, except on a much more epic scale. The same thing that we kept hearing was 'pure evil' and 'terrorism at its worst.' They have lost many of their own men and women too... :-\

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Excellent posting mate. I agree.

Knowing the way that he carries himself - I can't say I see him particularly as a man with any conviction.

Wouldn't be at all surprised if this just helps his ego a little rather than being something he strongly believes deep down.

I'm sure, in his head and his little circle he'll be living out some Muhammad Ali fantasy... but in reality he hasn't put anywhere near as much at risk - he won't be out right banned from fighting or lose his livelyhood, he isn't risking being locked up or bankrupcy, politcal assassination etc

I hate to say it but he doesn't come across as the type who really believes in something... he's always been the type of person who just wants to be noticed by others, not by himself. look at me, look at me.

His style, show boating, would be trash talking etc all stink of trying to emulate the legacy's of others rather than be an original and be real. This little outburst is just finishing off the cliche.

He has the right to spout what he wants and thankfully we all have the right not to take him at all seriously.

I agree %100 Adam in regards to Anthony Small. Same with you Oggie about how Small is targeting the wrong people. I don't really have the energy to defend a soldier's merit but it's not an easy thing for anyone, soldiers have acted in the wrong before I'm sure yes yes but you are criticizing these guys for following orders and doing their job. Should be interesting That's what puts food on the table for those guys and if you want them to take a moral stand and quit the military because they don't agree with the operations of the people they work for then fine, but that's a step that just isn't possible for most of these guys. But that's fine, the beauty of what these guys do is they actually put in the frontline work to protect their country.

I actually had a long talk with a soldier in our hotel last night who was very smart, very educated and sort of had his life figured out because of the military. When he was younger he would get mad at the war protesters and just thanked the world that he didn't have to live in the 60's where soldiers were hissed at after Vietnam. But as he told me, until he saw into the eyes of someone who wasn't free, who had an unfavorable opinion of the way things were going in their village but literally couldn't do anything about it and was probably going to end up fighting the troops and getting killed because he didn't have the option to oppose authority.

Small wouldn't be able to do this in North Korea, Iran and a zillion other places in the world so the guy I talked to yesterday would look at this and while in the past he would be infuriated that these people like Small who generally have no idea what they are talking about judging him like this would now take comfort in the fact that this is one of the freedom's that his guy's protect over there.

I don't want to get worked up over this but the people at the top fuck over the soldiers just as much as anyone really. People who aren't soldiers telling soldiers what to do mostly for purely political purposes, that's what this BS Iraq war is and while plenty of civilians have died, plenty of soldiers are also paying for their boss' incompetent.

My Airman fights for your honor student's freedom!

That was a bumper sticker once.

Also it makes you think that the politicians sons and daughters rarely get to do their fathers dirty work.

Nevere been a fan of him either.I mean he was good but he always fought hot and cold in rounds.Cant believe he has ranted the way he did about our brave men and women serving for our country as we enjoy life and sleep safely at night.I wonder if he's been brained washed or something.I just hope his jaw gets cracked hard when or if he fights again.:(

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Originally Posted by yvonne

Nevere been a fan of him either.I mean he was good but he always fought hot and cold in rounds.Cant believe he has ranted the way he did about our brave men and women serving for our country as we enjoy life and sleep safely at night.I wonder if he's been brained washed or something.I just hope his jaw gets cracked hard when or if he fights again.:(

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Maybe he is trying to follow in the footsteps of Anthony Mundine.

He searched for more fame through Muslim controversy as well and it all turned around and bit him.

theres a small number (1) of posters on here who are so ignorant of some things that im not going to even start to go into, as i dont want to accidentley offend anyone. A few of the guys are right. Its too controversial to be on here. But before anyone (that person) jumps into things then maybe he should do his homework and realise there really is two sides to every story

Lyle or Miles?

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Originally Posted by AdamGB

Knowing the way that he carries himself - I can't say I see him particularly as a man with any conviction.

Wouldn't be at all surprised if this just helps his ego a little rather than being something he strongly believes deep down.

I'm sure, in his head and his little circle he'll be living out some Muhammad Ali fantasy... but in reality he hasn't put anywhere near as much at risk - he won't be out right banned from fighting or lose his livelyhood, he isn't risking being locked up or bankrupcy, politcal assassination etc

I hate to say it but he doesn't come across as the type who really believes in something... he's always been the type of person who just wants to be noticed by others, not by himself. look at me, look at me.

His style, show boating, would be trash talking etc all stink of trying to emulate the legacy's of others rather than be an original and be real. This little outburst is just finishing off the cliche.

He has the right to spout what he wants and thankfully we all have the right not to take him at all seriously.

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I know it's a bit of a douche move to quote your own post, but after scanning this thread I have to say - I forgot that he nicknamed himself "Sugar Ray Casius Jones Junior"

Completely forgot that whilst making the point I made, and remembering that only underlines what I said - what a complete tool.

That was my point too, I first heard of him when they had that USA vs America contender and he had that douchey nickname, should zap any credibility he has

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Originally Posted by amat

Lyle or Miles?

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neither