Re: Has Pac improved since the JMM bouts?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hornfinger
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Pac has clearly improved However, I think the improvement is more down to Pac being allowed to fill into a more natural weight. He's coming into these fights with an optimum level of strength and is therefore able to apply himself better. There is less of the boiling down which probably sapped him somewhat towards the end of his spell at the lower weights. Pac is a natural JWW now and I doubt he could make 135 again without looking like a corpse.
In that case, and by that logic then...
It's a shame that none of pacs opponants have been at optimum strength level do to all the catch weights. ;)
Catchweights are a crock of shit. I agree, there is no need for them.
That's one thing that's pissing me off about tomorrows fight. Both guys want to fight for a MW title, then just stick to the weights which are already defined and are effective.
or they could fight for no belt at all. That way no matter who wins both are still champs at 154 and 160. That makes sense a "catch weight" fight between two champions in different weight classes, neither championship should be on the line.
Re: Has Pac improved since the JMM bouts?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
yes of course pac has improved , but lets remember one thing , styles make fights.
MAYWEATHER HAS STRUGGLED TO LOOK GOOD AGAINST FIGHTERS PAC WOULD BEAT EASIER , AND MAYWEATHER EASILY BEAT JMM.
Floyd Mayweather Jr vs JMM was a mismatch and never should of happened, im fan of both fighters more so JMM. And it was a sad fight to see, and i don't really count that fight as it was total BS.
Re: Has Pac improved since the JMM bouts?
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Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
yes of course pac has improved , but lets remember one thing , styles make fights.
MAYWEATHER HAS STRUGGLED TO LOOK GOOD AGAINST FIGHTERS PAC WOULD BEAT EASIER , AND MAYWEATHER EASILY BEAT JMM.
Floyd Mayweather Jr vs JMM was a mismatch and never should of happened, im fan of both fighters more so JMM. And it was a sad fight to see, and i don't really count that fight as it was total BS.
Totally agree. Anyone who tries to defend that fight is demented. Sure, Pac did it (jumped weights) by going up to fight a weight drained Oscar. However, a much older Marquez was at 144 against a guy who wouldn't even make the weight. Most of us on here said it was a mismatch and it was. No weight should be given to that fight whatsoever (no pun intended).
Re: Has Pac improved since the JMM bouts?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
yes of course pac has improved , but lets remember one thing , styles make fights.
MAYWEATHER HAS STRUGGLED TO LOOK GOOD AGAINST FIGHTERS PAC WOULD BEAT EASIER , AND MAYWEATHER EASILY BEAT JMM.
Floyd Mayweather Jr vs JMM was a mismatch and never should of happened, im fan of both fighters more so JMM. And it was a sad fight to see, and i don't really count that fight as it was total BS.
It was very intriguing fight to see at first. It just went BS when Floyd didn't make the scale at the weigh-in. And JMM showed up as bloated at fight night.
Re: Has Pac improved since the JMM bouts?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hornfinger
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hornfinger
floyd would fight going backwards for 6 rounds and let manny walk on to shots especially the straight right lead. From round 7 onwards he'd then up his work rate and start landing the big shots and go on to win by a wide UD. He does it in most fights and I don't see a fight with pacquiao being any different.
Because Manny Pacquiao is special, and Floyd Mayweather Jr hasn't fought anyone as good as Manny Pacquiao. Same goes for Manny Pacquiao, well actually scratch that JMM is special at below Lightweight.
And because the only fighters they can lose to at the moment, is eachother which is why its so intriguing. Shame it won't happen though.
I don't think so. You see I would not be shocked one little bit if floyd domintated pacquiao from abut round 4 onwards. It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest. too many times I thought 'this'll be the fight where Floyd slips up', and he ends up doing a demolition job.
i'm at the point now where I don't care what happens. I'm that convinced Pac would get schooled. Even with Mayweather's time out of the ring, the fact hes getting older and the fact he has been les mobile in his last few fights.
But as I've said in a previous thread pac would have the best chance of beating Floyd, mainly cuz Floyd could be coming off his peak now.
Mayweather is fighting differently, but I don't think there is any evidence that he is less mobile than he used to be, the last two fights were against guys where Floyd was able to stand his ground more, IMO that's the only reason he looked less mobile, when he needed to he was able to get away from Marquez and Mosley just fine. I do agree with the fact he would school Manny after about the 4th-5th round. The only thing I see now that could bother Floyd throughout a whole fight would be a very quick guy with a very good left jab all night long, and they would have to be applying pressure with it. Even that though you would probably get outjabbed by Floyd, and he would counter it so often it would take a ton of heart to keep it pumping.
Re: Has Pac improved since the JMM bouts?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taeth
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hornfinger
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Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hornfinger
floyd would fight going backwards for 6 rounds and let manny walk on to shots especially the straight right lead. From round 7 onwards he'd then up his work rate and start landing the big shots and go on to win by a wide UD. He does it in most fights and I don't see a fight with pacquiao being any different.
Because Manny Pacquiao is special, and Floyd Mayweather Jr hasn't fought anyone as good as Manny Pacquiao. Same goes for Manny Pacquiao, well actually scratch that JMM is special at below Lightweight.
And because the only fighters they can lose to at the moment, is eachother which is why its so intriguing. Shame it won't happen though.
I don't think so. You see I would not be shocked one little bit if floyd domintated pacquiao from abut round 4 onwards. It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest. too many times I thought 'this'll be the fight where Floyd slips up', and he ends up doing a demolition job.
i'm at the point now where I don't care what happens. I'm that convinced Pac would get schooled. Even with Mayweather's time out of the ring, the fact hes getting older and the fact he has been les mobile in his last few fights.
But as I've said in a previous thread pac would have the best chance of beating Floyd, mainly cuz Floyd could be coming off his peak now.
Mayweather is fighting differently, but I don't think there is any evidence that he is less mobile than he used to be, the last two fights were against guys where Floyd was able to stand his ground more, IMO that's the only reason he looked less mobile, when he needed to he was able to get away from Marquez and Mosley just fine. I do agree with the fact he would school Manny after about the 4th-5th round. The only thing I see now that could bother Floyd throughout a whole fight would be a very quick guy with a very good left jab all night long, and they would have to be applying pressure with it. Even that though you would probably get outjabbed by Floyd, and he would counter it so often it would take a ton of heart to keep it pumping.
Floyd got brittle hands. That's a FACT - IT'S DOCUMENTED!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAIQBcpHpSs
That's the reason why he only averages 34 punches per round. He knows he can't hurt Pac.
Manny would be on him all night with relentless flurries.
Re: Has Pac improved since the JMM bouts?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hornfinger
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Pac has clearly improved However, I think the improvement is more down to Pac being allowed to fill into a more natural weight. He's coming into these fights with an optimum level of strength and is therefore able to apply himself better. There is less of the boiling down which probably sapped him somewhat towards the end of his spell at the lower weights. Pac is a natural JWW now and I doubt he could make 135 again without looking like a corpse.
In that case, and by that logic then...
It's a shame that none of pacs opponants have been at optimum strength level do to all the catch weights. ;)
Yes....not to bright. "Same move every time, Right hook roll under". Somethings are just easy to say, but in really are very hard to do.
Re: Has Pac improved since the JMM bouts?
of course pacquiao has improved since his second fight with marquez!!! if he's been fighting cleanly, it's incredible what he has done and might never be duplicated or passed. granted, he has been carefully matched up but still, what he has accomplished is unprecedented.
however, if he has been fighting dirty, someday the truth will come out. it always does, but right now, we've got to assume he's been fighting clean.
Re: Has Pac improved since the JMM bouts?
There's only 1 real way of finding out...
Fight JMM a 4th time.
Re: Has Pac improved since the JMM bouts?
even though i thought marquez won both of his encounters with pacquiao, right now pacquiao takes him probably by KO. marquez is too damned old at 37 years old. it is clear he's on the down side of his career while pacquiao is in his absolute prime. a third fight should have happened when pacquiao was awarded a SD gift over marquez. now, i'm afraid it's too late!
Re: Has Pac improved since the JMM bouts?
Juan Manuel Marquez had a hard time againts John and Floyd because these 2 fighters like's to box a bit and play the waiting game. Juan's talent wont be in full throttle againts these type of fighters.
Fit him against someone who will chase him and be in front of him throwing punches and you will see the Best Juan Marquez that you can possible see. Manny Pacquiao brings out the best of JMM in that sense Pac is tailor made for Juan.
Marquez will perform magnificently again if the fight ever happens. It should be at 140.
Re: Has Pac improved since the JMM bouts?
He fights at his best weight, his natural weight. He has improved because since Diaz he has been watching tapes of his opponents too.
He's much better.
Re: Has Pac improved since the JMM bouts?
Pacman cut his teeth with Marquez, he found out he had to fight fight a man with lots of dog in him, a pit bull. He sent him to the canvas three times and wound up fighting a dog with rabies, a warrior. Pacman should be thanking him for reminding him that skills were to be improved. The dog bit him good and he was reminded there is no easy ride.
Re: Has Pac improved since the JMM bouts?
Not again.
To those folks who says Marquez clearly beat Pac on both fights. What were you watching?
2nd fight, yes it was not the typical Manny Pacquiao fight - where he dominates and hits you with incredible accuracy. It was a freaking close fight. Pac was able to land one bomb and he knock him down hard. Imagine what would happen to Marquez if he gets hit with a left hook or uppercut ala Hatton or Cotto.
Style wise, it was Marquez all the way. But in boxing you do something called scoring every round to get a decision. And Marquez sat on the 3rd round. First round goes either way. 12th fwuckin goes to Pacquiao. CLEARLY. WATCHED IT TOO MANY TIMES I LOST COUNT . Now how the hell did Marquez won that fight rather CLEARLY? Your biased hating asss. IT WAS A FREAKIN CLOSE FIGHT. I was wondering how this fight made people believe on Marquez, probably his best performance and it was still a close fight he could have win or lose. How sad was that? He supposedly "took Pac to hell" and we're sitting here still arguing who won that fight. Bleep.:p
And regarding the improvement of Pacquiao, I say it was tremendous. Right hook is now legit. Made Diaz a testing ground. It is now a ROUND right hook with all the pivot and body movement into it. Try to see if he even threw that kind of punch against Marquez. Zero. Marquez would die now when he gets hit by a counter right hook as he throws his ohh so effective lead right to Pac.
The BALANCE. Yes the thing Mr.Steward always scrutinizes Pac. Perfected against Dela Hoya.
POWER. Do you believe the Pac version against Marquez II will lay Ricky out convulsioning for 5 minutes? No. The way he throws his punches now is completely different. That, with his natural speed that seems not to diminish at these higher weights is some deadly firepower.
ENDURANCE to body punches. Willingly took the nasty lefts of Cotto. Shook off the brutal body shot of Margarito. Man he got hit spot on the liver by a full blown left hook. Any 154 fighter would have gone down from that.
CONFIDENCE. Took the best of Cotto. Clottey. Margarito. Never went down. He would not get hesitant unlike on the 2nd fight with Marquez.
PACQUIAO - MARQUEZ III : I THINK WE AIN'T GONNA SEE SOMEONE GETTING UP AFTER A KNOCKDOWN
:-\
