Did Pac reach his prime above or below lightweight?

I'm one of the few who still thinks he's reaching his prime at this point.
Many believe he's already reached it, others say he's peaked.

I think Pac will be one of those few rare fighters who retires with wins and not a several loses. Possibly even as a champ...

Like Carbajal, Monzon and Jofre (with wins)

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Originally Posted by miles

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Originally Posted by Julius Rain

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Originally Posted by milmascaras1

rain,

I caught my wife swallowing another mans load, now I am and piece of shit!

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Damn, no wonder you're mad :eek:

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That's not even funny. In fact, that kind of behaviour is downright wrong. Grow up. :rolleyes:

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Yeah that lame gimmick got old a long time ago. Unfortunately for the poor kid it's all he has.

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

I'm one of the few who still thinks he's reaching his prime at this point.
Many believe he's already reached it, others say he's peaked.

I think Pac will be one of those few rare fighters who retires with wins and not a several loses. Possibly even as a champ...

Like Carbajal, Monzon and Jofre (with wins)

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I think now is Pac's PHYSICAL prime its only a matter of maintaining it. it could be all downhill from the Marg fight.

TECHNICALLY I think he's at 90%. Margarito should have not cause some damage.
He should learn to avoid unnecessary damages.

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Originally Posted by milmascaras1

somehow pacquiao fans love for people to make the focal point in everything related to boxing. it kinda massages their egos. manny's this, manny's that, manny can cure cancer, manny will be president, manny should win the nobel peace prize, blah blah blah blah. !

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and yet when i searched your posts almost 90% is about pac! you hate pac and pacfans so much that it consumes you! lol

if you hate every topic that has pac in it then dont open the threads. simple enough right?

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Originally Posted by miron_lang

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

I'm one of the few who still thinks he's reaching his prime at this point.
Many believe he's already reached it, others say he's peaked.

I think Pac will be one of those few rare fighters who retires with wins and not a several loses. Possibly even as a champ...

Like Carbajal, Monzon and Jofre (with wins)

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I think now is Pac's PHYSICAL prime its only a matter of maintaining it. it could be all downhill from the Marg fight.

TECHNICALLY I think he's at 90%. Margarito should have not cause some damage.
He should learn to avoid unnecessary damages.

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I think it's the opposite.. technicality wise, he fights smarter than he ever has.... I just don't think physically he is what he was 4 to 5 years ago, and that made him take more from Margarito than he could have..

He has carried the weight up incredibly well though, so he can physically overpower BIG welterweights like Margarito and Cotto...


I think if "prime" encompasses everything like intelligence, physical attribute, mental will, skill etc.... Then right now as Mick said, he is absolutely prime and could look better in every fight he's in...

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Originally Posted by Dizaster

I think it's the opposite.. technicality wise, he fights smarter than he ever has.... I just don't think physically he is what he was 4 to 5 years ago, and that made him take more from Margarito than he could have..

He has carried the weight up incredibly well though, so he can physically overpower BIG welterweights like Margarito and Cotto...


I think if "prime" encompasses everything like intelligence, physical attribute, mental will, skill etc.... Then right now as Mick said, he is absolutely prime and could look better in every fight he's in...

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That's another nice way of looking at it.

But i think PHYSICALLY the strength, stamina, speed, power etc are already at their PEAK. No way he could be faster, stronger, etc from this point.

Saying he is TECHNICALLY at his peak means there are no more additional skills he can acquire which i think is not the case because IMO Pac can still add up to his arsenal.

thanks to the guys who got this thread back on track. These fxckin nuisance keep talking shit about one fighter that they hate so much but can't prevent themselves from not clicking on the tread. Damn Losers.

Anyways - I think pac has definitely improve above lightweight. He is smarter - for example: When cotto would go into a southpaw stance, first thing pac does it he throws a right hook that lands right on target. You can see that he is reading what is in front of him and will adjust and sometimes would change up his attack. Physically and technically I think pac has improve above lightweight. I do think he is at his prime right now in the welterweight division.

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Originally Posted by milmascaras1

julius rain,

wow, talking about how low a person can get. listen, the only reason why you're writing this crap is because you don't have to face me, you piece of shit! we can talk about other fighters but when people start saying crazy things about families, that to me draws the line. but of course, you're going to get a pass from the mods as always because there is a huge double standard tradition on this site.

if you're in bed with anything pacquiao, you can say anything you want without fear of getting reprimanded on this site.

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what double standard you talking about? i know quite a few members here who post like you banned within a week. the only difference is they were overzealous pac fans. if anything the mods here imo are quite tolerative of you.

Kkisser,

hey peep-squeak, nobody's talking to you! go back and suck on your mama's titty and shut up!

above lightweight, better use of the right hand and better footwork.

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Originally Posted by milmascaras1

Kkisser,

hey peep-squeak, nobody's talking to you! go back and suck on your mama's titty and shut up!

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Nobody needs to talk to him in order for him to express his opinion. This is a forum, isn't it? Why do you need to resort to name-calling?

To go back to the topic, I would say above lightweight ..... ooppps, I said this already.
Manny has developed an excellent right, better defense, acquired patience and improved footwork.

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Originally Posted by miles

I don't think milmascaras is an idiot. He is extreme, but amongst the bombast I do see some valid points being made.

I think Manny is in his prime at the higher weights as he isn't needing to boil down so much. We saw in the second Barrera fight how lethargic he looked, but that fight was also down to Barrera being unwilling to engage. We also saw Morales outbox him first time out and IMO Marquez had his number twice.

Pac has been far more impressive at the higher weights, but there is a degree of smoke and mirrors involved and some people have been getting high on the fumes. Manny is impressive for sure, but there are still question marks. Why not go after Mosley 2 years ago instead of Clottey, Cotto and then Margarito? Instead each of the previous opponents was coming off of a loss and in the cases of the later two, they were devastating losses. Where are the unbeaten fighters in their prime? There simply aren't any. They have been picking very carefully.

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Good question! Where are they indeed? Do you have any names of these undefeated fighters in their prime that Manny has been avoiding at welterweight?

I can only think of Berto, but the Pac haters on here have already dismissed this as a gimme fight for Manny. So which unbeaten welterweight fighters are you thinking he dodged?

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by miles

I don't think milmascaras is an idiot. He is extreme, but amongst the bombast I do see some valid points being made.

I think Manny is in his prime at the higher weights as he isn't needing to boil down so much. We saw in the second Barrera fight how lethargic he looked, but that fight was also down to Barrera being unwilling to engage. We also saw Morales outbox him first time out and IMO Marquez had his number twice.

Pac has been far more impressive at the higher weights, but there is a degree of smoke and mirrors involved and some people have been getting high on the fumes. Manny is impressive for sure, but there are still question marks. Why not go after Mosley 2 years ago instead of Clottey, Cotto and then Margarito? Instead each of the previous opponents was coming off of a loss and in the cases of the later two, they were devastating losses. Where are the unbeaten fighters in their prime? There simply aren't any. They have been picking very carefully.

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Good question! Where are they indeed? Do you have any names of these undefeated fighters in their prime that Manny has been avoiding at welterweight?

I can only think of Berto, but the Pac haters on here have already dismissed this as a gimme fight for Manny. So which unbeaten welterweight fighters are you thinking he dodged?

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Well, if he was going to become a WW it would have been good to see him fight Mosely post Margarito, it wasn't as though Mosley didn't try to get Pac in the ring. Sure, he wasn't unbeaten but more of a threat than the damaged goods that were Margarito and Cotto.

Personally, I would love to see Pac fight Tim Bradley who is a fighter that I really rate. He is clearly the stand out fighter at 140. He is quick, skilled, has output and punch variety. Bradley is the real deal and would be a tough fight for Manny.

And of course the other unbeaten one won't fight anyone, so not much Manny can do in that regard. :-\

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by miles

I don't think milmascaras is an idiot. He is extreme, but amongst the bombast I do see some valid points being made.

I think Manny is in his prime at the higher weights as he isn't needing to boil down so much. We saw in the second Barrera fight how lethargic he looked, but that fight was also down to Barrera being unwilling to engage. We also saw Morales outbox him first time out and IMO Marquez had his number twice.

Pac has been far more impressive at the higher weights, but there is a degree of smoke and mirrors involved and some people have been getting high on the fumes. Manny is impressive for sure, but there are still question marks. Why not go after Mosley 2 years ago instead of Clottey, Cotto and then Margarito? Instead each of the previous opponents was coming off of a loss and in the cases of the later two, they were devastating losses. Where are the unbeaten fighters in their prime? There simply aren't any. They have been picking very carefully.

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Good question! Where are they indeed? Do you have any names of these undefeated fighters in their prime that Manny has been avoiding at welterweight?

I can only think of Berto, but the Pac haters on here have already dismissed this as a gimme fight for Manny. So which unbeaten welterweight fighters are you thinking he dodged?

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Word is that Pacquiao dodged Juan Diaz(when undefeated) and Valero at 135, Bradley and Alexander at 140 and of course Berto and Mayweather at 147 and Chris John at 126.

Other defeated fighters he ducked would be Raheem, JMM, Casamayor, Nate Campbell, Shane Mosley (before his fight with Floyd), Michael Katsidis, Ali Funeka, Marcos Maidana, Ortiz, Peterson, Paul Williams and now Sergio Martinez.

That is all.

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by miles

I don't think milmascaras is an idiot. He is extreme, but amongst the bombast I do see some valid points being made.

I think Manny is in his prime at the higher weights as he isn't needing to boil down so much. We saw in the second Barrera fight how lethargic he looked, but that fight was also down to Barrera being unwilling to engage. We also saw Morales outbox him first time out and IMO Marquez had his number twice.

Pac has been far more impressive at the higher weights, but there is a degree of smoke and mirrors involved and some people have been getting high on the fumes. Manny is impressive for sure, but there are still question marks. Why not go after Mosley 2 years ago instead of Clottey, Cotto and then Margarito? Instead each of the previous opponents was coming off of a loss and in the cases of the later two, they were devastating losses. Where are the unbeaten fighters in their prime? There simply aren't any. They have been picking very carefully.

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Good question! Where are they indeed? Do you have any names of these undefeated fighters in their prime that Manny has been avoiding at welterweight?

I can only think of Berto, but the Pac haters on here have already dismissed this as a gimme fight for Manny. So which unbeaten welterweight fighters are you thinking he dodged?

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Word is that Pacquiao dodged Juan Diaz(when undefeated) and Valero at 135, Bradley and Alexander at 140 and of course Berto and Mayweather at 147 and Chris John at 126.

Other defeated fighters he ducked would be Raheem, JMM, Casamayor, Nate Campbell, Shane Mosley (before his fight with Floyd), Michael Katsidis, Ali Funeka, Marcos Maidana, Ortiz, Peterson, Paul Williams and now Sergio Martinez.

That is all.

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You know I agree with you on that to a point. But dodging them is hardly the right word.

After dominating the smaller divisions he decided to move up for the megafights. En route to the welterweight division he had an inbetween fight against David Diaz to pick up another belt before the Oscar fight.

Sure he wasn't the best opposition, but at that time Manny wasn't interested in conquering the lightweight division he was headed for Oscar, and then beyond that the big sharks at 147 where all the action was.

Surely you can't expect a fighter to move through 10 weight classes AND fight all the best fighters in every division? That's completely unreasonable. They can only fight maybe 3 times a year and a career does not last long. Manny hasn't dodged anybody, he has gone for the biggest fights, both in terms of events and paydays.

If Juan Diaz and Edwin Valero were big name box office fighters and considered the stars of the sport, you can be certain he would have fought them.

As for dodging Paul Williams and Sergio Martinez that is just absurd. What about Lucian Bute claiming he is number one at 168 and yet refusing to fight Thomas Adamek and David Haye? Or Sergio Martinez dodging Andre Ward?