Re: JMM: I'll fight him at any weight he wants, not a problem since he was 148
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Originally Posted by
miles
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Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
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Originally Posted by
miles
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Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
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Originally Posted by
miles
If Marquez really thinks he can go in there at 147 and get the job done then fair enough, but I think his heart is ruling over his head a bit. Marquez has been looking great at LW, but Pac has been looking great at WW. That's a big difference in power and muscle mass. Okay, they could be a similar weight on fight night, but with Pac it's all muscle, with Marquez it's more about rehydration unless he decides to bulk up too and that just isn't going to work for Marquez at his age.
I would love for Marquez to go up there and silence all the Pacheads, but I just cannot see it being a fair fight with a WW weigh in. It is the same as what Mayweather did to Marquez and we were all on his case. And now that Manny is doing it, you are all giving him a free pass and saying what's the problem? Total double standards. At least I am never less than consistent.
Actually there were some on his case, mainly Floyd's critics and haters. Not everyone. If the fight had taken place at 130 or 135 years ago, Floyd would dominate JMM even worse, considering he was even more offensive minded then and much faster. And considering that Floyd usually rehydrates 2 or 3 pounds at the most so it's not like he had a huge size advantage over JMM, it was the skills, speed, and reflexes that were the difference.
You're on about this fight being fair to JMM and the 3rd match should happen. But yet I posted that JMM turned down a '05 rematch against Pac for 750k years ago to fight 2 bums and Chris John for 30k. How do you explain that? If JMM had taken the fight the 3rd match would have happened in '08 or something like that. Or how about he asked for a 50/50 money split in January of this year when the fight was proposed to him by Pac's team? The fight more than likely would have been at 140 also since Pac was only 1 fight removed from fighting there. Talk about not taking the opportunities not presented to you. So who's fault was that? Who priced themselves out? Now JMM wants a 3rd match when he passed on the opportunities to fight Pac on a few occasions.
The moral of the story? Take opportunities in life that are presented to you. Don't turn them down and then chase down those opportunities that passed you by.
BTW, I don't think there will be a 3rd match with JMM. Floyd, Berto, Mosley, and the winner of Bradley/Alexander are on the horizon.
It doesn't matter what might have been between Mayweather and Marquez at LW. What matters is that Mayweather signed to fight a LW when he could have fought anyoone at WW. It was a hoax of a fight from the start and I give Mayweather little credit for it. The same as if Manny were to fight Marquez at 147.
Yes, there have been mistakes from the management of Marquez. For sure, I won't deny that, but right here, right now, I do not want to see a Pac/Marquez fight at 147. I would sooner have them look elsewhere for a fight. Marquez should not compromise on everything and if that means we don't see the fight then so be it.
Floyd dominated the no. 2 fighter in the sport at the time of his almost 2 year layoff. Again it's not like Floyd had a huge size advantage, it was the skills more than anything else. Floyd is a tiny Welterweight, more than likely could make the 140 pound limit. Again Floyd only rehydrates at the most 1-3 pounds on fight night. So it wasn't the size but skills that defeated JMM.
It is JMM that wants to fight for a 3rd time badly with Pac not the other way around. If he wants it, he's going to need to accept the demands. JMM wants the money, status, and biggest fights then he's going to need to take some huge risks for that. Just like Manny took some huge ones against Oscar in jumping another extra 2 weight classes after going from 130 to 135 and accepting only 32% of the overall money, not to mentioned ring size and glove size Oscar wanted. Floyd got his status as the PPV king of the sport right now and 1/2 the face of boxing by meeting all of Oscar's demands to fight him. It paid off.
Again I thought something else is funny, if JMM beat Pac twice as JMM and his supporters claim with all those writers and fans agreeing, then there is no need for a 3rd fight right? It's already decided, JMM has that. So why does he want a 3rd fight so badly then? You want to tell me Miles?
Come on now, Floyd is a large WW these days. He couldn't even make the catchweight to fight Matquez and looked absolutely huge next to him. No way did he put on just 2-3 pounds that night. Mayweather is in his mid-30's and has grown into the weight properly.
Why does Marquez want the fight so badly? I would imagine it has a lot to do with pride and Marquez being annoyed that the judges wouldn't see it the way the majority of the people scoring the fight saw it. He wants that win in the history books because what he has is not satisfactory and will be glossed over in the future.
Unfortunately it appears he is going to give up everything at the bargaining table to get it.
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$Cash money hosss... If he some how manages to get the fight with Manny he'll be able to pay people to drink his piss for once.
Re: JMM: I'll fight him at any weight he wants, not a problem since he was 148
Yes, money is likely the other important factor. But how important is that to Marquez really? I know if I was a millionaire I wouldn't be too worried about needing to keep maxing out my income. It would be more about just wanting to do the best job that I can. I think someone like Marquez just loves to fight and that the win is the most important thing. The money is great and not to be sniffed at, but Mrquez is not exactly a poor man. He doesn't need to fight Pac or risk going broke. His money likely goes a long way in Mexico. Marquez wants that win.
Re: JMM: I'll fight him at any weight he wants, not a problem since he was 148
I really think money is the ultimate motivating factor at this point. JMM is on the wrong side of 30 and realizes he needs to really cash in. In a sport where you can grow old overnight I think he realizes he didn't make too many savvy business decisions in the past (fighting chris john in indonesia)(even more surprising consdering he's good with numbers I think he was an econ major as well? from 24/7) I think he wants to secure his financial future.
Re: JMM: I'll fight him at any weight he wants, not a problem since he was 148
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Originally Posted by
Stale_hotdog
I really think money is the ultimate motivating factor at this point. JMM is on the wrong side of 30 and realizes he needs to really cash in. In a sport where you can grow old overnight I think he realizes he didn't make too many savvy business decisions in the past (fighting chris john in indonesia)(even more surprising consdering he's good with numbers I think he was an econ major as well? from 24/7) I think he wants to secure his financial future.
The Chris John fight has never made any sense to me. Marquez always comes across as being very articulate and quite adroit, but some of those career decisions have been a bit unorthodox.
Yeah, maybe he is cashing out, but it's hard to tell if that is really Marquez's plan. If he is willing to give up all advantages to fight Manny then I think I will begin to see it that way though.
Re: JMM: I'll fight him at any weight he wants, not a problem since he was 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Yes, money is likely the other important factor. But how important is that to Marquez really? I know if I was a millionaire I wouldn't be too worried about needing to keep maxing out my income. It would be more about just wanting to do the best job that I can. I think someone like Marquez just loves to fight and that the win is the most important thing. The money is great and not to be sniffed at, but Mrquez is not exactly a poor man. He doesn't need to fight Pac or risk going broke. His money likely goes a long way in Mexico. Marquez wants that win.
lol, you are so naive miles it's unbelievable. All these years you've been intently following boxing, on this site at least, and yet you still don't get that MONEY is the ONLY thing that matters in boxing.
"Marquez just loves to fight" ... that is utter fantasy. If Marquez, like every other PRIZEfighter that ever lived, wasn't rewarded by large sums of dough you would have never seen him in a professional ring.
If the money is right fighters fight. If it's not they don't. Simple as that.
Re: JMM: I'll fight him at any weight he wants, not a problem since he was 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
If Marquez really thinks he can go in there at 147 and get the job done then fair enough, but I think his heart is ruling over his head a bit. Marquez has been looking great at LW, but Pac has been looking great at WW. That's a big difference in power and muscle mass. Okay, they could be a similar weight on fight night, but with Pac it's all muscle, with Marquez it's more about rehydration unless he decides to bulk up too and that just isn't going to work for Marquez at his age.
I would love for Marquez to go up there and silence all the Pacheads, but I just cannot see it being a fair fight with a WW weigh in. It is the same as what Mayweather did to Marquez and we were all on his case. And now that Manny is doing it, you are all giving him a free pass and saying what's the problem? Total double standards. At least I am never less than consistent.
Actually there were some on his case, mainly Floyd's critics and haters. Not everyone. If the fight had taken place at 130 or 135 years ago, Floyd would dominate JMM even worse, considering he was even more offensive minded then and much faster. And considering that Floyd usually rehydrates 2 or 3 pounds at the most so it's not like he had a huge size advantage over JMM, it was the skills, speed, and reflexes that were the difference.
You're on about this fight being fair to JMM and the 3rd match should happen. But yet I posted that JMM turned down a '05 rematch against Pac for 750k years ago to fight 2 bums and Chris John for 30k. How do you explain that? If JMM had taken the fight the 3rd match would have happened in '08 or something like that. Or how about he asked for a 50/50 money split in January of this year when the fight was proposed to him by Pac's team? The fight more than likely would have been at 140 also since Pac was only 1 fight removed from fighting there. Talk about not taking the opportunities not presented to you. So who's fault was that? Who priced themselves out? Now JMM wants a 3rd match when he passed on the opportunities to fight Pac on a few occasions.
The moral of the story? Take opportunities in life that are presented to you. Don't turn them down and then chase down those opportunities that passed you by.
BTW, I don't think there will be a 3rd match with JMM. Floyd, Berto, Mosley, and the winner of Bradley/Alexander are on the horizon.
It doesn't matter what might have been between Mayweather and Marquez at LW. What matters is that Mayweather signed to fight a LW when he could have fought anyoone at WW. It was a hoax of a fight from the start and I give Mayweather little credit for it. The same as if Manny were to fight Marquez at 147.
Yes, there have been mistakes from the management of Marquez. For sure, I won't deny that, but right here, right now, I do not want to see a Pac/Marquez fight at 147. I would sooner have them look elsewhere for a fight. Marquez should not compromise on everything and if that means we don't see the fight then so be it.
Floyd dominated the no. 2 fighter in the sport at the time of his almost 2 year layoff. Again it's not like Floyd had a huge size advantage, it was the skills more than anything else. Floyd is a tiny Welterweight, more than likely could make the 140 pound limit. Again Floyd only rehydrates at the most 1-3 pounds on fight night. So it wasn't the size but skills that defeated JMM.
It is JMM that wants to fight for a 3rd time badly with Pac not the other way around. If he wants it, he's going to need to accept the demands. JMM wants the money, status, and biggest fights then he's going to need to take some huge risks for that. Just like Manny took some huge ones against Oscar in jumping another extra 2 weight classes after going from 130 to 135 and accepting only 32% of the overall money, not to mentioned ring size and glove size Oscar wanted. Floyd got his status as the PPV king of the sport right now and 1/2 the face of boxing by meeting all of Oscar's demands to fight him. It paid off.
Again I thought something else is funny, if JMM beat Pac twice as JMM and his supporters claim with all those writers and fans agreeing, then there is no need for a 3rd fight right? It's already decided, JMM has that. So why does he want a 3rd fight so badly then? You want to tell me Miles?
Come on now, Floyd is a large WW these days. He couldn't even make the catchweight to fight Matquez and looked absolutely huge next to him. No way did he put on just 2-3 pounds that night. Mayweather is in his mid-30's and has grown into the weight properly.
Why does Marquez want the fight so badly? I would imagine it has a lot to do with pride and Marquez being annoyed that the judges wouldn't see it the way the majority of the people scoring the fight saw it. He wants that win in the history books because what he has is not satisfactory and will be glossed over in the future.
Unfortunately it appears he is going to give up everything at the bargaining table to get it.
Floyd even at this stage is no large welterweight. I think it said in last year's issue of Ring Magazine that Floyd was around 148 or 149 on fight night, the same size as Pac now on fight night. And no one would consider Pac a large welterweight. It's generally known that Floyd rehydrates 1-3 pounds the most on fight night. You know what's a large welterweight? Guys like Clottey, Cotto, Margarito that are 160 on fight night. Now those are large welters. So Floyd dominated the no. 2 p4p fighter and at most he was 4 pounds heavier. Is that a huge disparity in weight? No it's not.
And like you said, if JMM, fans, and sportswriters believe he won those fights against Pac then that's all that matters right? Regardless of what the record books said. Just like all fans and sportswriters believe Lennox Lewis beat Holyfield in the 1st match or Whitaker beat Chavez, even though the official record says "draw" but the fans and sport writers know. So what are you, JMM, and his backers wanting a 3rd match with Pac and that it should happen at 135 or 140? I mean if JMM had 2 clear cut dominant victories over Pac as seen by the general public, fans, and sportswriters why need a 3rd fight?
That's like the equivalent of George Foreman and his fans asking for a 3rd fight with Joe Frazier back in the day or Ali and his fans asking for a 3rd match with Sonny Liston back then or Marvin Hagler and his fans asking for a 3rd match with Mustafa Hamsho.
Re: JMM: I'll fight him at any weight he wants, not a problem since he was 148
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Originally Posted by
bcollins
They should get it on and put this question to rest - once and for all. Make it a 15 rounder!
I'd love to see 15 rounders return to championship boxing. IMO that really showed the men from the boys!
Re: JMM: I'll fight him at any weight he wants, not a problem since he was 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Yes, money is likely the other important factor. But how important is that to Marquez really? I know if I was a millionaire I wouldn't be too worried about needing to keep maxing out my income. It would be more about just wanting to do the best job that I can. I think someone like Marquez just loves to fight and that the win is the most important thing. The money is great and not to be sniffed at, but Mrquez is not exactly a poor man. He doesn't need to fight Pac or risk going broke. His money likely goes a long way in Mexico. Marquez wants that win.
If money isn't that important to JMM, then why did he overpriced himself at 50/50 when he was offered to fight Pacquiao early this year?
If he loves to fight and winning is the most important thing, then why do I not see him clamor to have a fight with Chris John when that is a blemish in his record? Doesn't he want to prove that he is better than that relatively unknown boxer?
Why did he go up two weight divisions in untested territory to fight Mayweather, the second best (some will say best) fighter in the world?
It all boils down to MONEY!!! But I don't blame him on that. If they are putting themselves at risk in this sport, might as well get the highest available reward that they can get and that includes financial.
Re: JMM: I'll fight him at any weight he wants, not a problem since he was 148
why should marquez fight chris john again? john won't travel to the U.S. for such a big fight against marquez! besides, like i've said, in asia, you've got to KO your opponent then you'll only get a draw. corrupt bastards over there!
Re: JMM: I'll fight him at any weight he wants, not a problem since he was 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by
milmascaras1
why should marquez fight chris john again? john won't travel to the U.S. for such a big fight against marquez! besides, like i've said, in asia, you've got to KO your opponent then you'll only get a draw. corrupt bastards over there!
Did JMM even asked Chris John to fight in the US? Chris John fought Rocky Juarez in the US twice so that excuse is now lame.
Re: JMM: I'll fight him at any weight he wants, not a problem since he was 148
neutral,
and marquez did ask chris john for a rematch in the U.S. but of course, john is a pussy. and read my comments more carefully before you comment, i said john won't travel to the U.S. to fight any BIG fights. i don't think a very average rocky juarez can be considered as BIG.
Re: JMM: I'll fight him at any weight he wants, not a problem since he was 148
i like JMM he's a good fighter whis given boxing some good nights of action....i make him right wirh what he said...mosely is washed up and theres always been a lack of ending to the pacman v jmm saga.....if its a matter of pac fights either mosley or jmm it should 100% be jmm.....before mayweather fans says pacs ducking jmm i'll say this...pac doesnt need to fight jmm but jmm needs to fight pac to continue his career at the top level....at 37 jmm knows those big nights infront of big crowds with hugh tv viewers are all but over in rapid quick time........if mayweather had the guts to step upto the plate we'd not be talking about these match-ups al all
Re: JMM: I'll fight him at any weight he wants, not a problem since he was 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by
milmascaras1
neutral,
and marquez did ask chris john for a rematch in the U.S. but of course, john is a pussy. and read my comments more carefully before you comment, i said john won't travel to the U.S. to fight any BIG fights. i don't think a very average rocky juarez can be considered as BIG.
I tried to look up that Marquez did ask Chris John for a rematch in the US but could not find it so maybe you can provide me the link.
Assuming that you are correct (once you provided the link), for how long did JMM pursue such rematch? And for how long did JMM pursue Manny for a fight and to what extent did he pursue it?
My point here is that there is honor in winning a fight with CJ so as to avenge that loss but there is little money. Any sane boxer will pursue the fight which will be financially rewarding. I just responded to the previous question as to how important money is to JMM.
But I will be waiting for that link.
Re: JMM: I'll fight him at any weight he wants, not a problem since he was 148
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Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Yes, money is likely the other important factor. But how important is that to Marquez really? I know if I was a millionaire I wouldn't be too worried about needing to keep maxing out my income. It would be more about just wanting to do the best job that I can. I think someone like Marquez just loves to fight and that the win is the most important thing. The money is great and not to be sniffed at, but Mrquez is not exactly a poor man. He doesn't need to fight Pac or risk going broke. His money likely goes a long way in Mexico. Marquez wants that win.
lol, you are so naive miles it's unbelievable. All these years you've been intently following boxing, on this site at least, and yet you still don't get that MONEY is the ONLY thing that matters in boxing.
"Marquez just loves to fight" ... that is utter fantasy. If Marquez, like every other PRIZEfighter that ever lived, wasn't rewarded by large sums of dough you would have never seen him in a professional ring.
If the money is right fighters fight. If it's not they don't. Simple as that.
Miles would probably respond with something like this, "You're wrong. No one in boxing fights for money. Everyone fights for honor and integrity and they just do it because......well they just love the sport and are fighting for legacy."
;D
Re: JMM: I'll fight him at any weight he wants, not a problem since he was 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
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Originally Posted by
miles
Yes, money is likely the other important factor. But how important is that to Marquez really? I know if I was a millionaire I wouldn't be too worried about needing to keep maxing out my income. It would be more about just wanting to do the best job that I can. I think someone like Marquez just loves to fight and that the win is the most important thing. The money is great and not to be sniffed at, but Mrquez is not exactly a poor man. He doesn't need to fight Pac or risk going broke. His money likely goes a long way in Mexico. Marquez wants that win.
lol, you are so naive miles it's unbelievable. All these years you've been intently following boxing, on this site at least, and yet you still don't get that MONEY is the ONLY thing that matters in boxing.
"Marquez just loves to fight" ... that is utter fantasy. If Marquez, like every other PRIZEfighter that ever lived, wasn't rewarded by large sums of dough you would have never seen him in a professional ring.
If the money is right fighters fight. If it's not they don't. Simple as that.
Miles would probably respond with something like this, "You're wrong. No one in boxing fights for money. Everyone fights for honor and integrity and they just do it because......well they just love the sport and are fighting for legacy."
;D
Well, if the only motivation Marquez has is money then why did he go all the way overseas to fight Chris John for approximately $17? There were better options out there. Apparently there was a Pac fight for a lot more money. If it was ALL about the money then surely it was insane to choose Chris John as an opponent.
I don't think money can be accepted as the only reason fighters fight. Most of them have been doing this since they were kids and barely into their teens. They love to do it. There was no guarantee of them becoming world champions and gaining the opprtunity to fight for multi million dollar purses, but regardless that is the hobby that they chose to pursue. Of course money is extremely significant and every fighter wants a nest egg, but just as I might be naive to suggest that some fighters simply love what they do, perhaps others are just too cynical in suggesting that it can ONLY be about the money.
I don't think that is neccessarily true, I think it is somewhere between those trains of thought depending on the fighter. Mayweather is clearly all about the money, but someone like Marqez? I don't think this is always the case.
