There was never and has never been any evidence of any kind linking Marciano to organized crime, unless the assumption is that, since he was Italian...
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There was never and has never been any evidence of any kind linking Marciano to organized crime, unless the assumption is that, since he was Italian...
I have just ried to read your post , I would like to ask you a question .Quote:
Originally Posted by nikola_ganchev
ARE YOU KID THUNDER ?
Im sure many others compare your post to one of his ?
After swimming i hit 2000 PSI fact.
Totally disagree with just about everything you say mate. Whether you accept it or not, people are just bigger now!! The average height of a man in the 60s was 5 ft 8, it is now 5 ft 11. The average weight was 166 pounds it's now 191 pounds. When I was at school I was a big tall kid at 5 ft 11. If I go in a pub now I am a midget. Rocky Marciano coulld never have been 120 Kgs without either being fat or built like Mariusz Pudzianowski. I totally accept size is not everything and I know all of the arguments about shorter fighters, look how Tyson used his height (or lack thereof) and lateral movement. But we are not talking about slight size differences. George Foreman was the biggest most fearsome sized heavyweight at 220 pounds, that's about the size of Adamnek. I'm not saying Tyson or Foreman couldn't live with today's heavyweights, but for Marciano it would be a bridge too far imo. We have even had to introduce a new division and subsequently change the max weight of that division to 205 pounds, because of the size that heavyweight boxers now are. If we were talking about 20 pounds, Marciano's ability woud bridge the gap in size. But giving away 65 pounds to a fighter like Vitali.....Quote:
Originally Posted by nikola_ganchev
As for Tua, that fight was a shut out, Lewis schooled him and Tua was probaly heavier than Lewis anyway
As a matter of fact i am ;)
Nah you're German ;)
I thought the average height of a man was 5'9 mate ? in the UK anyway, as for Mike Tyson he was only 5'11 but he was 220 pound beast. He was knocking out big 6'3 plus guys like Ruddock, Williams, Holmes, Biggs, easily.Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG HTotally disagree with just about everything you say mate. Whether you accept it or not, people are just bigger now!! The average height of a man in the 60s was 5 ft 8, it is now 5 ft 11. The average weight was 166 pounds it's now 191 pounds. When I was at school I was a big tall kid at 5 ft 11. If I go in a pub now I am a midget. Rocky Marciano coulld never have been 120 Kgs without either being fat or built like Mariusz Pudzianowski. I totally accept size is not everything and I know all of the arguments about shorter fighters, look how Tyson used his height (or lack thereof) and lateral movement. But we are not talking about slight size differences. George Foreman was the biggest most fearsome sized heavyweight at 220 pounds, that's about the size of Adamnek. I'm not saying Tyson or Foreman couldn't live with today's heavyweights, but for Marciano it would be a bridge too far imo. We have even had to introduce a new division and subsequently change the max weight of that division to 205 pounds, because of the size that heavyweight boxers now are. If we were talking about 20 pounds, Marciano's ability woud bridge the gap in size. But giving away 65 pounds to a fighter like Vitali.....Quote:
Originally Posted by nikola_ganchev
As for Tua, that fight was a shut out, Lewis schooled him and Tua was probaly heavier than Lewis anyway
Im sorry but no way would either of the Klitschko brothers, beat a prime Mike Tyson. Carl Williams was 6'5 and a skilled Heavyweight, and Tyrell Biggs was 6'6 and skilled aswell.
And neither of them could keep Mike Tyson off them, both men didn't have the best chins in the world. But neither has Wladimir Klitschko, and even Vitali Klitschko's chin would shatter eventually.
I wasn't talking about Tyson, I was talking about Marciano ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBI thought the average height of a man was 5'9 mate ? in the UK anyway, as for Mike Tyson he was only 5'11 but he was 220 pound beast. He was knocking out big 6'3 plus guys like Ruddock, Williams, Holmes, Biggs, easily.Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG HTotally disagree with just about everything you say mate. Whether you accept it or not, people are just bigger now!! The average height of a man in the 60s was 5 ft 8, it is now 5 ft 11. The average weight was 166 pounds it's now 191 pounds. When I was at school I was a big tall kid at 5 ft 11. If I go in a pub now I am a midget. Rocky Marciano coulld never have been 120 Kgs without either being fat or built like Mariusz Pudzianowski. I totally accept size is not everything and I know all of the arguments about shorter fighters, look how Tyson used his height (or lack thereof) and lateral movement. But we are not talking about slight size differences. George Foreman was the biggest most fearsome sized heavyweight at 220 pounds, that's about the size of Adamnek. I'm not saying Tyson or Foreman couldn't live with today's heavyweights, but for Marciano it would be a bridge too far imo. We have even had to introduce a new division and subsequently change the max weight of that division to 205 pounds, because of the size that heavyweight boxers now are. If we were talking about 20 pounds, Marciano's ability woud bridge the gap in size. But giving away 65 pounds to a fighter like Vitali.....Quote:
Originally Posted by nikola_ganchev
As for Tua, that fight was a shut out, Lewis schooled him and Tua was probaly heavier than Lewis anyway
Im sorry but no way would either of the Klitschko brothers, beat a prime Mike Tyson. Carl Williams was 6'5 and a skilled Heavyweight, and Tyrell Biggs was 6'6 and skilled aswell.
And neither of them could keep Mike Tyson off them, both men didn't have the best chins in the world. But neither has Wladimir Klitschko, and even Vitali Klitschko's chin would shatter eventually.
And average height, depends which source you use and which age/criteria you look at. Published average heights vary, but for 20-40 year US Males in 2008 it was 5ft 10 1/2. Go into any college in UK and you will see that that is wrong, I would say the average 20 year old is 6ft. You are young man ICE, surely you know that!
Yea i know i was just talking generally really, because im hearing alot of people saying Klitschko brothers, would beat Mike Tyson because of there height nonsense IMO mate.Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG HI wasn't talking about Tyson, I was talking about Marciano ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBI thought the average height of a man was 5'9 mate ? in the UK anyway, as for Mike Tyson he was only 5'11 but he was 220 pound beast. He was knocking out big 6'3 plus guys like Ruddock, Williams, Holmes, Biggs, easily.Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG HTotally disagree with just about everything you say mate. Whether you accept it or not, people are just bigger now!! The average height of a man in the 60s was 5 ft 8, it is now 5 ft 11. The average weight was 166 pounds it's now 191 pounds. When I was at school I was a big tall kid at 5 ft 11. If I go in a pub now I am a midget. Rocky Marciano coulld never have been 120 Kgs without either being fat or built like Mariusz Pudzianowski. I totally accept size is not everything and I know all of the arguments about shorter fighters, look how Tyson used his height (or lack thereof) and lateral movement. But we are not talking about slight size differences. George Foreman was the biggest most fearsome sized heavyweight at 220 pounds, that's about the size of Adamnek. I'm not saying Tyson or Foreman couldn't live with today's heavyweights, but for Marciano it would be a bridge too far imo. We have even had to introduce a new division and subsequently change the max weight of that division to 205 pounds, because of the size that heavyweight boxers now are. If we were talking about 20 pounds, Marciano's ability woud bridge the gap in size. But giving away 65 pounds to a fighter like Vitali.....Quote:
Originally Posted by nikola_ganchev
As for Tua, that fight was a shut out, Lewis schooled him and Tua was probaly heavier than Lewis anyway
Im sorry but no way would either of the Klitschko brothers, beat a prime Mike Tyson. Carl Williams was 6'5 and a skilled Heavyweight, and Tyrell Biggs was 6'6 and skilled aswell.
And neither of them could keep Mike Tyson off them, both men didn't have the best chins in the world. But neither has Wladimir Klitschko, and even Vitali Klitschko's chin would shatter eventually.
Great post. If we're talking about a gap of 20 pounds which prime Tyson was facing against guys like Ruddock, Bruno, then it's not insurmountable. Giving up about 60 pounds is a lot to a guy like Lewis or the Klit bros if you're Rocky. Prime Tyson would come in about 220 against the bigger Hws, but it was only 10-20 pounds not 60 pounds like Marciano is. Marciano was a great in his era, but today's athlete is just bigger, faster, and stronger in many sports and this is quite evident at the Hw division with guys like Bowe, Lewis, Klit bros. A guy like Ali could compete with today's Hws because in his prime he was around 215 at 6'3". Which many boxing experts have said to be an ideal height and size for a HW. But Rocky was 5'10" and 187, which is what LHWs are on fight night after rehydration!Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG HTotally disagree with just about everything you say mate. Whether you accept it or not, people are just bigger now!! The average height of a man in the 60s was 5 ft 8, it is now 5 ft 11. The average weight was 166 pounds it's now 191 pounds. When I was at school I was a big tall kid at 5 ft 11. If I go in a pub now I am a midget. Rocky Marciano coulld never have been 120 Kgs without either being fat or built like Mariusz Pudzianowski. I totally accept size is not everything and I know all of the arguments about shorter fighters, look how Tyson used his height (or lack thereof) and lateral movement. But we are not talking about slight size differences. George Foreman was the biggest most fearsome sized heavyweight at 220 pounds, that's about the size of Adamnek. I'm not saying Tyson or Foreman couldn't live with today's heavyweights, but for Marciano it would be a bridge too far imo. We have even had to introduce a new division and subsequently change the max weight of that division to 205 pounds, because of the size that heavyweight boxers now are. If we were talking about 20 pounds, Marciano's ability woud bridge the gap in size. But giving away 65 pounds to a fighter like Vitali.....Quote:
Originally Posted by nikola_ganchev
As for Tua, that fight was a shut out, Lewis schooled him and Tua was probaly heavier than Lewis anyway
You are right that we are heavier now, but this has to do with our oversize and crap that we are eating. About the hight it depends where you read it. I saw a study that makes this diference in hight for the period of 150 yeas. But evan as you say it 3 inches in this direction don't make the difference ;) The think that i wanted to point out is that Forman was monster and this 220 pounds is his non pumped weight! This is only functional weight! If you watch the training of almost all new boxers you will see that they pump alot! Being 1.90+ it's easy to be more than 220 pounds with this typer of training, nutrition and chemistry, but is this functional?Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG HTotally disagree with just about everything you say mate. Whether you accept it or not, people are just bigger now!! The average height of a man in the 60s was 5 ft 8, it is now 5 ft 11. The average weight was 166 pounds it's now 191 pounds. When I was at school I was a big tall kid at 5 ft 11. If I go in a pub now I am a midget. Rocky Marciano coulld never have been 120 Kgs without either being fat or built like Mariusz Pudzianowski. I totally accept size is not everything and I know all of the arguments about shorter fighters, look how Tyson used his height (or lack thereof) and lateral movement. But we are not talking about slight size differences. George Foreman was the biggest most fearsome sized heavyweight at 220 pounds, that's about the size of Adamnek. I'm not saying Tyson or Foreman couldn't live with today's heavyweights, but for Marciano it would be a bridge too far imo. We have even had to introduce a new division and subsequently change the max weight of that division to 205 pounds, because of the size that heavyweight boxers now are. If we were talking about 20 pounds, Marciano's ability woud bridge the gap in size. But giving away 65 pounds to a fighter like Vitali.....Quote:
Originally Posted by nikola_ganchev
As for Tua, that fight was a shut out, Lewis schooled him and Tua was probaly heavier than Lewis anyway
Well you know my theory on Tyson we've debated it loads over the years. I still think that on his night he could've beaten just about anybody in history. After the Spinks fight every man, woman,child and more importantly 'boxing expert' would've had Tyson only behind Ali as an ATHG. Had he have retired that fight, everybody would still feel the same. For me, what happend afterwards did not reveal a weakness and something that was always going to happen when he fought better opposition. He always had physcological weaknesses and self doubt, but they never stopped him being the fighter he was. Against Douglas he was undoubtedly completely underprepared mentally and physically (being a 42-1 favourite in a 2 horse race illustrates how easy it was supposed to be). He had lost Jimmy Jacobs, his marriage was on the ropes and I think he was probably on drugs too (but that's just my opinion) He also happened to meet an unbelievably good Buster Douglas (and still gave him a long count) After the Douglas fight we all know what happend.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBYea i know i was just talking generally really, because im hearing alot of people saying Klitschko brothers, would beat Mike Tyson because of there height nonsense IMO mate.Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG HI wasn't talking about Tyson, I was talking about Marciano ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBI thought the average height of a man was 5'9 mate ? in the UK anyway, as for Mike Tyson he was only 5'11 but he was 220 pound beast. He was knocking out big 6'3 plus guys like Ruddock, Williams, Holmes, Biggs, easily.Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG HTotally disagree with just about everything you say mate. Whether you accept it or not, people are just bigger now!! The average height of a man in the 60s was 5 ft 8, it is now 5 ft 11. The average weight was 166 pounds it's now 191 pounds. When I was at school I was a big tall kid at 5 ft 11. If I go in a pub now I am a midget. Rocky Marciano coulld never have been 120 Kgs without either being fat or built like Mariusz Pudzianowski. I totally accept size is not everything and I know all of the arguments about shorter fighters, look how Tyson used his height (or lack thereof) and lateral movement. But we are not talking about slight size differences. George Foreman was the biggest most fearsome sized heavyweight at 220 pounds, that's about the size of Adamnek. I'm not saying Tyson or Foreman couldn't live with today's heavyweights, but for Marciano it would be a bridge too far imo. We have even had to introduce a new division and subsequently change the max weight of that division to 205 pounds, because of the size that heavyweight boxers now are. If we were talking about 20 pounds, Marciano's ability woud bridge the gap in size. But giving away 65 pounds to a fighter like Vitali.....Quote:
Originally Posted by nikola_ganchev
As for Tua, that fight was a shut out, Lewis schooled him and Tua was probaly heavier than Lewis anyway
Im sorry but no way would either of the Klitschko brothers, beat a prime Mike Tyson. Carl Williams was 6'5 and a skilled Heavyweight, and Tyrell Biggs was 6'6 and skilled aswell.
And neither of them could keep Mike Tyson off them, both men didn't have the best chins in the world. But neither has Wladimir Klitschko, and even Vitali Klitschko's chin would shatter eventually.
You know... It's only just occurred to me, how similar a young Tyson & Marciano are, style wise.... Ridiculous side-to-side-movement aside... They look very similar.
Watch Marciano Louis the Tyson Spinks and hopefully you'll see what I mean.
Don’t want to ruffle any feathers but Marciano was not the puncher that he is given credit for. KO ratios only tell one side of the story. I think he would have been a Chuvalo in the 60’s and 70’s. Marciano is an American folk hero and was a tough sob in his time but lets be honest here. He fought in arguably the weakest era in heavyweight history. Charles was far from Charles, who knows how old Walcott was and Moore was a shadow of his former self. To the punching power, their have been plenty of bigger punchers then Marciano since his day and before him. You want to talk about a small heavyweight with a punch then how about Langford? What about Satterfield? You don’t see his name mentioned on to many top 5 punchers lists. Max Baer could punch. Shavers goes w/o saying. It’s great what Marciano did but people really need to put things into perspective. I suppose the biggest unknown in these hypothetical comparisons is the “times”. Even if one had a time machine to put these match-ups to the test, you could not beam over “way of life” Nod goes to Marciano on that one although he’d be just as fk’d up being beamed to 1972 let alone 1990 as anyone else being beamed back to 1952.
This thread is regarding Rocky , Tyson wasnt from the same era , he was bigger and faster , so i fail to see , how that is relivant ICE ? explainQuote:
Originally Posted by ICBI thought the average height of a man was 5'9 mate ? in the UK anyway, as for Mike Tyson he was only 5'11 but he was 220 pound beast. He was knocking out big 6'3 plus guys like Ruddock, Williams, Holmes, Biggs, easily.Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG HTotally disagree with just about everything you say mate. Whether you accept it or not, people are just bigger now!! The average height of a man in the 60s was 5 ft 8, it is now 5 ft 11. The average weight was 166 pounds it's now 191 pounds. When I was at school I was a big tall kid at 5 ft 11. If I go in a pub now I am a midget. Rocky Marciano coulld never have been 120 Kgs without either being fat or built like Mariusz Pudzianowski. I totally accept size is not everything and I know all of the arguments about shorter fighters, look how Tyson used his height (or lack thereof) and lateral movement. But we are not talking about slight size differences. George Foreman was the biggest most fearsome sized heavyweight at 220 pounds, that's about the size of Adamnek. I'm not saying Tyson or Foreman couldn't live with today's heavyweights, but for Marciano it would be a bridge too far imo. We have even had to introduce a new division and subsequently change the max weight of that division to 205 pounds, because of the size that heavyweight boxers now are. If we were talking about 20 pounds, Marciano's ability woud bridge the gap in size. But giving away 65 pounds to a fighter like Vitali.....Quote:
Originally Posted by nikola_ganchev
As for Tua, that fight was a shut out, Lewis schooled him and Tua was probaly heavier than Lewis anyway
Im sorry but no way would either of the Klitschko brothers, beat a prime Mike Tyson. Carl Williams was 6'5 and a skilled Heavyweight, and Tyrell Biggs was 6'6 and skilled aswell.
And neither of them could keep Mike Tyson off them, both men didn't have the best chins in the world. But neither has Wladimir Klitschko, and even Vitali Klitschko's chin would shatter eventually.