This is dedicated to ALL of you who said SSM was a worthy opponent...

JMM is a better opponent than Shane Mosley Rains, simply because he's arguably beat him twice. And he's fought both the one dimensional Manny Pacquiao, and the new and improved Manny Pacquiao. And basically fought on even terms twice and won more rounds.

And in this point of there careers, JMM is certainly a more dangerous opponent than SSM.

I agree JMM is a bit past it now, he's more hittable and gets marked up easily now. But he's still got a alot of heart, and whether it is at 147 or not. He'd still Manny Pacquiao a much tougher test than SSM. Simply because he'd take chances and fight, something SSM didn't do at all.

But i do agree JMM isn't really a Welterweight, he looked bloated when he fought Floyd Mayweather Jr at Welterweight. But maybe a catchweight would be fair ?

I don't really see much else for Manny Pacquiao, there's nothing for him at Welterweight really, nor at Jr Middleweight so JMM is his last option or retire.

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Originally Posted by ICB

JMM is a better opponent than Shane Mosley Rains, simply because he's arguably beat him twice. And he's fought both the one dimensional Manny Pacquiao, and the new and improved Manny Pacquiao. And basically fought on even terms twice and won more rounds.

And in this point of there careers, JMM is certainly a more dangerous opponent than SSM.

I agree JMM is a bit past it now, he's more hittable and gets marked up easily now. But he's still got a alot of heart, and whether it is at 147 or not. He'd still Manny Pacquiao a much tougher test than SSM. Simply because he'd take chances and fight, something SSM didn't do at all.

But i do agree JMM isn't really a Welterweight, he looked bloated when he fought Floyd Mayweather Jr at Welterweight. But maybe a catchweight would be fair ?

I don't really see much else for Manny Pacquiao, there's nothing for him at Welterweight really, nor at Jr Middleweight so JMM is his last option or retire.

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Agree with this, yeah i dont see it would be competitive as now if JMM would fight Pac at welters sure one thing it could be made even competitive if it is at @140. The problem now is GBP and TR, Is Marquez already signed with GBP? hoping it be will fine, next to of course with Floyd.

Also they can also mixed it up with Bradley or retire.

Let's keep in mind JMM has fought above 140.
How many times?
Once.
Against whom?
PBF.

People are judging how JMM would look vs. Pac at that same weight...

The weight does not suit JMM I agree. But you can't say it would be the samething if he fought Pac.
It's cliche but remember styles make fights.

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Originally Posted by ICB

JMM is a better opponent than Shane Mosley Rains, simply because he's arguably beat him twice. And he's fought both the one dimensional Manny Pacquiao, and the new and improved Manny Pacquiao. And basically fought on even terms twice and won more rounds.

And in this point of there careers, JMM is certainly a more dangerous opponent than SSM.

I agree JMM is a bit past it now, he's more hittable and gets marked up easily now. But he's still got a alot of heart, and whether it is at 147 or not. He'd still Manny Pacquiao a much tougher test than SSM. Simply because he'd take chances and fight, something SSM didn't do at all.

But i do agree JMM isn't really a Welterweight, he looked bloated when he fought Floyd Mayweather Jr at Welterweight. But maybe a catchweight would be fair ?

I don't really see much else for Manny Pacquiao, there's nothing for him at Welterweight really, nor at Jr Middleweight so JMM is his last option or retire.

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Very valid points here and well put together.

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Originally Posted by ICB

JMM is a better opponent than Shane Mosley Rains, simply because he's arguably beat him twice. And he's fought both the one dimensional Manny Pacquiao, and the new and improved Manny Pacquiao. And basically fought on even terms twice and won more rounds.

And in this point of there careers, JMM is certainly a more dangerous opponent than SSM.

I agree JMM is a bit past it now, he's more hittable and gets marked up easily now. But he's still got a alot of heart, and whether it is at 147 or not. He'd still Manny Pacquiao a much tougher test than SSM. Simply because he'd take chances and fight, something SSM didn't do at all.

But i do agree JMM isn't really a Welterweight, he looked bloated when he fought Floyd Mayweather Jr at Welterweight. But maybe a catchweight would be fair ?

I don't really see much else for Manny Pacquiao, there's nothing for him at Welterweight really, nor at Jr Middleweight so JMM is his last option or retire.

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I dont want to sound like I am defending the Shane fight because I would love to see a third fight with JMM.

Actually Ice JMM has not fought this version of Pac dont even give JMM that credit because its completely false.

Here is my point though,

People are saying JMM shouldn't fight Pac above 140 because JMM wouldn't be competitive but yet Shane at 147 is not worthy? OK Shane is 39 but in the greatest defensive fighters last fight he was rock by none other than Shane....This greatest defensive fighter name Floyd also took on JMM in which JMM could not even come close to catching.

My point is how is JMM a better opponent if he too wouldnt be competitive against Pac above 140?

And how is ok for Pac to drop in weight but its not ok for JMM to go up in weight? Its like big brother with little brothers terms so little brother has a chance, its pathetic.

A third fight with Marquez would be good, but it always seems to vome with caveats, especially that Manny should be a man and fight Marquez at his ideal weight which makes no sesne to me.

I can't think of any other fighter in history who has had fans saying that he must move back down two weight classes, to fight a man he has already beat in order to prove himself.

If the fight happens then cleary it's Marquezs job to come and wtake Mannys welterweight title not the other way around.

I dont see it being competitive considering how much Marquez has struggled lately against B level opposition in Katsidis, Diaz and Casamayor for example.

I think he gets wrecked by Manny in a third fight unless Manny goes down to 135 but why would he do that? Where is the clamour for Martinez to prove himself and give up his middleweight crown to fight Manny at 147?

If Manny carries on and doesnt fight Floyd I think he needs to stay at welter, which means Marquez must move up if he wants the fight.

The only fan friendly fights I can see for Manny really are Ortiz and Maidana both of which would do well on HBO I'd imagine. Goldenboy and Arum not working together really takes a big shit on any good fights being made though.

If not Floyd I'd like to see Manny fight Maidana. I think he kills him but it sure would be fun to watch for a few rounds.

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

Let's keep in mind JMM has fought above 140.
How many times?
Once.
Against whom?
PBF.

People are judging how JMM would look vs. Pac at that same weight...

The weight does not suit JMM I agree. But you can't say it would be the samething if he fought Pac.
It's cliche but remember styles make fights.

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I do believe pac would beat him above 140 but I have never said its because Floyd beat JMM above 140.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

A third fight with Marquez would be good, but it always seems to vome with caveats, especially that Manny should be a man and fight Marquez at his ideal weight which makes no sesne to me.

I can't think of any other fighter in history who has had fans saying that he must move back down two weight classes, to fight a man he has already beat in order to prove himself.

If the fight happens then cleary it's Marquezs job to come and wtake Mannys welterweight title not the other way around.

I dont see it being competitive considering how much Marquez has struggled lately against B level opposition in Katsidis, Diaz and Casamayor for example.

I think he gets wrecked by Manny in a third fight unless Manny goes down to 135 but why would he do that? Where is the clamour for Martinez to prove himself and give up his middleweight crown to fight Manny at 147?

If Manny carries on and doesnt fight Floyd I think he needs to stay at welter, which means Marquez must move up if he wants the fight.

The only fan friendly fights I can see for Manny really are Ortiz and Maidana both of which would do well on HBO I'd imagine. Goldenboy and Arum not working together really takes a big shit on any good fights being made though.

If not Floyd I'd like to see Manny fight Maidana. I think he kills him but it sure would be fun to watch for a few rounds.

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Exactly! Thank you Bilbo for seeing the truth :D

If Pac is fighting JMM they could meet at a catchweight of 141 since they are now 2 divisions apart 135-147.

Of course people here will be in a uproar that it's another cw fight that Pac has had to handicapped his opponent.;)

I told myself i wouldnt order this fight the day it was announced and at the last minute i said fuck it, u never know what could happen in boxing.......turned out worse than i expected, wish i didnt support this mismatch only pac fight id order in the future would be pac vs jmm, mayweather, or martinez (i think martinez is too heavy tho and pac should avoid him)

As much as people hate it, Bradley makes as much sense any opponent out there. The only thing he lacks is a following. :p Other than that, he is a unified champ at 140, undefeated, he'll go out on his shield, he's aggressive, and most importantly, he's not with Golden Boy. ;)

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

A third fight with Marquez would be good, but it always seems to vome with caveats, especially that Manny should be a man and fight Marquez at his ideal weight which makes no sesne to me.

I can't think of any other fighter in history who has had fans saying that he must move back down two weight classes, to fight a man he has already beat in order to prove himself.

If the fight happens then cleary it's Marquezs job to come and wtake Mannys welterweight title not the other way around.

I dont see it being competitive considering how much Marquez has struggled lately against B level opposition in Katsidis, Diaz and Casamayor for example.

I think he gets wrecked by Manny in a third fight unless Manny goes down to 135 but why would he do that? Where is the clamour for Martinez to prove himself and give up his middleweight crown to fight Manny at 147?

If Manny carries on and doesnt fight Floyd I think he needs to stay at welter, which means Marquez must move up if he wants the fight.

The only fan friendly fights I can see for Manny really are Ortiz and Maidana both of which would do well on HBO I'd imagine. Goldenboy and Arum not working together really takes a big shit on any good fights being made though.

If not Floyd I'd like to see Manny fight Maidana. I think he kills him but it sure would be fun to watch for a few rounds.

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There can be no question but that the most legacy rich option for Manny is to try to make 135 and beat JMM there. Why? It is at this point JMM's highest optimal weight. It gives JMM every advantage and if Manny beats him there? It can never be questioned. Secondly, it would give Manny a fifth THE MAN championship.

We have seen JMM above 135 and it wasn't Floyd who made him slow and lethargic. It was the extra weight. He just isn't the same guy. Heck, my bet is JMM could make 130 without trouble if he wanted.

The reason this matters in a way that a Sergio-Manny matchup doesn't is because of the past history of these two.

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Originally Posted by marbleheadmaui

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

A third fight with Marquez would be good, but it always seems to vome with caveats, especially that Manny should be a man and fight Marquez at his ideal weight which makes no sesne to me.

I can't think of any other fighter in history who has had fans saying that he must move back down two weight classes, to fight a man he has already beat in order to prove himself.

If the fight happens then cleary it's Marquezs job to come and wtake Mannys welterweight title not the other way around.

I dont see it being competitive considering how much Marquez has struggled lately against B level opposition in Katsidis, Diaz and Casamayor for example.

I think he gets wrecked by Manny in a third fight unless Manny goes down to 135 but why would he do that? Where is the clamour for Martinez to prove himself and give up his middleweight crown to fight Manny at 147?

If Manny carries on and doesnt fight Floyd I think he needs to stay at welter, which means Marquez must move up if he wants the fight.

The only fan friendly fights I can see for Manny really are Ortiz and Maidana both of which would do well on HBO I'd imagine. Goldenboy and Arum not working together really takes a big shit on any good fights being made though.

If not Floyd I'd like to see Manny fight Maidana. I think he kills him but it sure would be fun to watch for a few rounds.

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There can be no question but that the most legacy rich option for Manny is to try to make 135 and beat JMM there. Why? It is at this point JMM's highest optimal weight. It gives JMM every advantage and if Manny beats him there? It can never be questioned. Secondly, it would give Manny a fifth THE MAN championship.

We have seen JMM above 135 and it wasn't Floyd who made him slow and lethargic. It was the extra weight. He just isn't the same guy. Heck, my bet is JMM could make 130 without trouble if he wanted.

The reason this matters in a way that a Sergio-Manny matchup doesn't is because of the past history of these two.

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I'm pretty sure you've been at other boxing forums and the response is the same, some guys just won't be credited like Manny and Floyd. Let's just say hypothetically Manny does make 135 and beat JMM. Do you know what the criticism will be? He fought an old JMM that was long in the tooth, even though he himself isn't exactly some spring chicken with close to 60 fights. Meh.

To get that 5th lineal title he can still do it, but it would have to be at 147 and against Floyd which is a possiblity.

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Originally Posted by marbleheadmaui

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

A third fight with Marquez would be good, but it always seems to vome with caveats, especially that Manny should be a man and fight Marquez at his ideal weight which makes no sesne to me.

I can't think of any other fighter in history who has had fans saying that he must move back down two weight classes, to fight a man he has already beat in order to prove himself.

If the fight happens then cleary it's Marquezs job to come and wtake Mannys welterweight title not the other way around.

I dont see it being competitive considering how much Marquez has struggled lately against B level opposition in Katsidis, Diaz and Casamayor for example.

I think he gets wrecked by Manny in a third fight unless Manny goes down to 135 but why would he do that? Where is the clamour for Martinez to prove himself and give up his middleweight crown to fight Manny at 147?

If Manny carries on and doesnt fight Floyd I think he needs to stay at welter, which means Marquez must move up if he wants the fight.

The only fan friendly fights I can see for Manny really are Ortiz and Maidana both of which would do well on HBO I'd imagine. Goldenboy and Arum not working together really takes a big shit on any good fights being made though.

If not Floyd I'd like to see Manny fight Maidana. I think he kills him but it sure would be fun to watch for a few rounds.

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There can be no question but that the most legacy rich option for Manny is to try to make 135 and beat JMM there. Why? It is at this point JMM's highest optimal weight. It gives JMM every advantage and if Manny beats him there? It can never be questioned. Secondly, it would give Manny a fifth THE MAN championship.

We have seen JMM above 135 and it wasn't Floyd who made him slow and lethargic. It was the extra weight. He just isn't the same guy. Heck, my bet is JMM could make 130 without trouble if he wanted.

The reason this matters in a way that a Sergio-Manny matchup doesn't is because of the past history of these two.

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Its a ridiculous argument that wouldnt be applied to any other fighter.

Why are you not berating Martinez for not moving down to 147 to fight the p4p best fighter in the world?

Why doesnt Marquez move down to bantam and fight Nonito Donaire if he cant get Manny for a third time?

I want to see LUcian Bute prove himself against Martinez and fight for the middleweight title. If he really wanted to be the best he'd do that surely..

I think the guy who started this thread should be banned for a month for thinking this would be Pac's hardest fight.

http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...oing-face.html

going up in weight will do JMM no good at all.