Re: Kostya Tszyu hall of fame induction
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mr140
Mosley at age 36 to 40 had that record and look who he fought during that period. Kt lost to fucking VP and never avenged it so kinda has a mark on his career and then to Hatton and then quiet at 36. He beat Oscars left overs JCC and then his best wins are Judah and Mitchell i mean not that impressive. I mean he has beat no Atgs anywhere near there prime or even Hofs. He was in a weak division and never moved up to change that he is far step below a Mosely or Dela Hoya and far from a atg.
The greatest ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about.
The rematch was going to happen, but Millet KO'd Phillips and Tszyu went onto fight Miguel Angel Gonzalez. Weak division? In 2001 the Jr Welter division was often recognised as the most exciting and best division in boxing. DLH still could've fought Tszyu in 97, instead he went for an ageing Whitaker, Mosley avoided him completely by leap frogging straight up to 147lb!
I doubt very much if anyone would not place Tszyu in their top 3 Jr Welters of all time, if they don't please refer to opening statement above.
Re: Kostya Tszyu hall of fame induction
Kt would get wrecked by Mosley and out pointed or koed by Dela Hoya. Kt was a was a unknown pretty much in 1997 and Mosley went to fight Oscar for his biggest pay day ever. I just saying i think if Kt moved to WW he would have a better resume then he does now. I mean come on all the names were at welterweight and if he would of moved up he would of had a chance to have some hofs on his resume.
Re: Kostya Tszyu hall of fame induction
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mr140
Kt would get wrecked by Mosley and out pointed or koed by Dela Hoya. Kt was a was a unknown pretty much in 1997 and Mosley went to fight Oscar for his biggest pay day ever. I just saying i think if Kt moved to WW he would have a better resume then he does now. I mean come on all the names were at welterweight and if he would of moved up he would of had a chance to have some hofs on his resume.
Not in 1999 he wouldn't have. Duran stayed at Lightweight for an entire decade, he had one super fight with Leonard and won in 1980, it was all down hill from there. Being in one division does not get you dismissed as an ATG, in fact if anything KT has reinforced his position by cementing his place in the top 3 Jr Welters of All time. I think people have had their judgement clouded by the success of Paquaio and Mayweather who have achieved great results in many divisions. Mosley's best efforts were at Lightweight and one great fight against DLH at WW, other than that his past 10 years are very, very ordinary. I would say his decision to move back and forth in divisions has backfired. Moving up divisions doesn't neccessarily make you a greater fighter, remember that Tsyzu was also 23 yrs old when he turned pro and that's a late start. He was a champion for almost 10 years, he unified the division, what more can you do? If people are going to judge him on his last fight with Hatton then do the same to Mosley, Jones jr, DLH, all of whom ended up a shadow of their former selves and why? Because they fucked around with their weight in search of the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. At least Fatton has had the good sense to finish and not be embarrassed by losing to some club fighter in the UK somewhere.
Re: Kostya Tszyu hall of fame induction
Quote:
Originally Posted by
THE THIRD MAN
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mr140
Mosley at age 36 to 40 had that record and look who he fought during that period. Kt lost to fucking VP and never avenged it so kinda has a mark on his career and then to Hatton and then quiet at 36. He beat Oscars left overs JCC and then his best wins are Judah and Mitchell i mean not that impressive. I mean he has beat no Atgs anywhere near there prime or even Hofs. He was in a weak division and never moved up to change that he is far step below a Mosely or Dela Hoya and far from a atg.
The greatest ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about.
The rematch was going to happen, but Millet KO'd Phillips and Tszyu went onto fight Miguel Angel Gonzalez. Weak division? In 2001 the Jr Welter division was often recognised as the most exciting and best division in boxing. DLH still could've fought Tszyu in 97, instead he went for an ageing Whitaker, Mosley avoided him completely by leap frogging straight up to 147lb!
I doubt very much if anyone would not place Tszyu in their top 3 Jr Welters of all time, if they don't please refer to opening statement above.
It's worth noting that Kostya brought a lot of excitement/entertainment to boxing, and I don't think there's any doubt that he was an elite level fighter or that he belongs in the BHOF. If some some have a different opinion, that's their right, just saying why beat a dead horse, Tszyu is in the BHOF now, so get over yourself.
Re: Kostya Tszyu hall of fame induction
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mr140
Kt would get wrecked by Mosley and out pointed or koed by Dela Hoya. Kt was a was a unknown pretty much in 1997 and Mosley went to fight Oscar for his biggest pay day ever. I just saying i think if Kt moved to WW he would have a better resume then he does now. I mean come on all the names were at welterweight and if he would of moved up he would of had a chance to have some hofs on his resume.
He could of stepped up to wweight easily, his team were masters at weight stripping he walked around normally huge, so he could of been there if he wanted to.
But like they say, why trade in a bike thats getting you over the line first every time?
Re: Kostya Tszyu hall of fame induction
Good point Andre i have no problem with Kt being in hof i just saying his resume is kinda weak. He could of moved up in weight and fought Trinadad, Mosley, or Dela Hoya just never did it.
Re: Kostya Tszyu hall of fame induction
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mr140
Good point Andre i have no problem with Kt being in hof i just saying his resume is kinda weak. He could of moved up in weight and fought Trinadad, Mosley, or Dela Hoya just never did it.
In fairness same goes the other way too many didnt want any part of him at his chosen weight either.
Re: Kostya Tszyu hall of fame induction
Well to be fair i would say they were the stars they did not need him like he needed them. I mean look at Mosley, Dela Hoya and Trinadads resumes they did not need him they will go down as atgs i not sure kt will. I mean Evander Holyfeild could of been CW champ for ten years no one would of given shit because the real prize was the weight class above him thats were the glory lied and he took it.
Re: Kostya Tszyu hall of fame induction
Yep its a reflection on how easy the heavyweights are to watch and the big hits that go off and so on down the line, as soon as you get underneath Welter the general population of the world dont know any of the champs. Even Lopez will suffer it outside his own country.
Anyway HOF is a crock its just a building and a tag the real HOF is in the hearts and minds of real fans.
Re: Kostya Tszyu hall of fame induction
To be honest andre its hard for me to watch anything under 126 just not really in to it at all. My favorite division was heavyweight which is why it pains me a tad that US can't get its shit together and produce a champ. People say Heavies are less talented but that is the weight class people want to watch and if the lower weights were as big as the heavies i am sure that there skill set would be a hell of a lot different as well.
Re: Kostya Tszyu hall of fame induction
Oh for sure theres no doubt they'd be the same at the same weight.
Unless they are going for broke the heavies can put me to sleep, but hey I understand the added danger and what can occur at any time thing too, which keeps most on the edge of their seats, its all a personal choice.:cool:
I dont mind some of the faster pace of the very light weights but not the run of the mill ones, I know what you mean it can appear like an amateur style of fast scoring only type of style.
Around Feather is my favorite. I like what the speed of the fight forcing what their non thinking reactions can bring out,you see some unexpected and natural instinct in techniques. Elbow checks ,slight deflecting twists,disruptions all while still staying nose to nose.
Ahh where would Mexican boxing be without the lighter weights? The wars that occur below WW seem to go on for a lot longer too and heart comes into play a bit more down there at times these days than in the higher weights i feel. :)
Re: Kostya Tszyu hall of fame induction
Quote:
Originally Posted by
THE THIRD MAN
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mr140
Mosley at age 36 to 40 had that record and look who he fought during that period. Kt lost to fucking VP and never avenged it so kinda has a mark on his career and then to Hatton and then quiet at 36. He beat Oscars left overs JCC and then his best wins are Judah and Mitchell i mean not that impressive. I mean he has beat no Atgs anywhere near there prime or even Hofs. He was in a weak division and never moved up to change that he is far step below a Mosely or Dela Hoya and far from a atg.
The greatest ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about.
The rematch was going to happen, but Millet KO'd Phillips and Tszyu went onto fight Miguel Angel Gonzalez. Weak division? In 2001 the Jr Welter division was often recognised as the most exciting and best division in boxing. DLH still could've fought Tszyu in 97, instead he went for an ageing Whitaker, Mosley avoided him completely by leap frogging straight up to 147lb!
I doubt very much if anyone would not place Tszyu in their top 3 Jr Welters of all time, if they don't please refer to opening statement above.
Mosley avoided him? Mosley went where the money was & that was straight to Oscar. Yeah, Mosley's power dropped a bit up at 147, but he still KO'd most guys. I would definitely fancy him to have retained a fair bit more at 140. I think it would have been an intriguing fight, but it didn't happen & that was that. You say the Phillips loss to Millett got rid of the need for Tszyu to rematch him, but he had a year of facing easier guys to get his hands back on alphabet rather than take it from the man who beat him. Yet ODLH should have fought a guy who'd just been stopped by Vince Phillips?
Tszyu is a top 3 140lber of all time in the sense of being a man who campaigned at the division. He's in IBHOF. But, his resume is really lacking. It's got some goodish names, but this 16 world champs thing just highlights how the alphabets have made it so easy to be a world champ. To put it into context, Kendall Holt has fought 5 world champions. Holt's talent being discussed alongside Tszyu's is mad, it should not even be in the same country let alone ballpark.
I mean, which of the guys he fought are getting into the Hall of Fame? Chavez obviously has & that fight is soured slightly by the fact he was only one fight removed from being beat by Willy Wise, but the manner of victory still gives it some validity. Hatton is a possible & imo probable entry, regardless of his resume probably being too thin. Judah would have to beat Khan & Bradley to be the lineal champ at 140 as well. Roger Mayweather might blag his way in as a trainer but that's it.
I give Tszyu his credit, he's deservedly in the IBHOF, but the fact is he will not be the first face to rush to mind when we think of the greatest fighters of the 90s & 00s, certainly not outside Australia.
Re: Kostya Tszyu hall of fame induction
I wonder if it was the real risk of maybe being stopped at 140 that made him and Floyd step over the weight, or the class of opponent at 147 or money? :-\. I doubt the money.but money to risk ratio maybe.
Just thinking aloud here: If it was me in their shoes and I thought I had Kostya number I would have stopped there with bells on to take that scalp and pave my way into WW they'd see me comming.
Guaranteed war too, so there's always more risk. Maybe one not worth taking as you say?:-\
Re: Kostya Tszyu hall of fame induction
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Andre
I wonder if it was the real risk of maybe being stopped at 140 that made him and Floyd step over the weight, or the class of opponent at 147 or money? :-\. I doubt the money.but money to risk ratio maybe.
Just thinking aloud here: If it was me in their shoes and I thought I had Kostya number I would have stopped there with bells on to take that scalp and pave my way into WW they'd see me comming.
Guaranteed war too, so there's always more risk. Maybe one not worth taking as you say?:-\
Mayweather didn't step over the weight. He & Tszyu had a planned fight to unify the WBC & IBF belts after they'd both had their money bouts against Gatti & Hatton. That would have been great. Thanks a fucking lot Dave Parris :(
I think the one knock on both Tszyu & Pryor is that they never really even tried stepping up. We always go on about the original weight-classes, so how would they have done in those times. I don't know about Pryor, but I would have loved to have seen Tszyu possibly in the mix with the Welters around 2002/3. A rematch in the pros with Forrest or fights with Margarito, Mayorga or Mosley would have been great.
Re: Kostya Tszyu hall of fame induction
Yeah,he made a smart days work of Shamba and Hatton (oh I forgot Judah too) so going on that, Kostya could of been in trouble too. We should really give Floyd more props for going all the way to 154 for Oscar too. Careful aim in who and when but he got the job done.
